<p>It may have been true in the past, but not anymore. So many applicants are applyinG ED now and college admissions are getting very selective. ED DOES help because it's guaranteed admission for the college but I'm saying that people don't get into Penn by applying ED. Most people who get in ED would have gotten in RD. ED isn't a miracle worker.</p>
<p>To be honest, she told me, "you're doing everything right...applying early...but the ED and RD pools are very similar and anyone who gets in ED should get in RD (excluding alumni)"</p>
<p>Bongo - So what you are saying is that ED helps the college, not the applicant? I have always had a nagging worry that colleges "cook the statistics." I wish someone could do an in depth investigation on this topic. Are the stats of the alumni children making it seem as though ED is an advantage, when it's really not? I know that the average SATs for ED(accepted? enrolled?) are 30 points less than for RD(I forget if that's for each section or total) - maybe that's really not that much, considering the number of legacies applying ED.<br>
You are right about one thing - the record number of ED applications. If what you say is true, though, and people begin to realize it, the whole ED game may become a thing of the past - at least at the top tier schools. ED always helped the schools more than it helped the students. Still, I can't believe there is NO advantage there, even if it's less than I'm hoping.</p>
<p>yes, collegecountdown, I sadly would have to agree to that. didn't you know that for the SAT scores, colleges always take the highest of the two sections? So if you took it twice, once with 500V and 780M and second time with 700V and 710M then they would take the highest of the two times (which in this case would be 700V and 780M) you scored so that when they put it into their "stats" file, it will look better on their half. but also, just as the app said when i applied there, if you're an alumni child and you want to go there, then apply early beacuase you have a better chance early than later.</p>
<p>now im not discouraging any of you to appy early because if you TRULY are destined to go there and Penn is TRULY your DREAM SCHOOL, then you should definately apply early-otherwise, dont! why risk it if you get in? you're going to regret it, i'm sure.</p>
all applicants middle 50(V:660-760) (M:680-780)
all applicants average: approx. 710V, 730M
Average admitted 2008(all, includes ED) 1431(705V, 725M)
Average admitted 2007(all) 1426(703V, 723M)
So, ED looks to give an advantage of around 30 points total, compared to ALL applicants. But ALL, includes ED, so it is really a little better than that. Also, there is a 14% acceptance rate RD compared to a 34.2% acceptance rate ED. That entire difference isn't made up of legacies. It sounds like what you are REALLY saying is that for people with equally stellar stats, ED helps, but not for anyone else.
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<p>yes, that's what i have noticed here at penn when i talk and ask those who have applied early, some it's because of the steller stats, others because of sports, and others because they're legacies. in either case, i wish everyone the best of luck-i think the competition seems to increase each year and maybe the earl decision round may be different than the previous, who knows?</p>
<p>I have no doubt that applying ED increases your chances to some degree.</p>
<p>1) If you get rejected, you are considered with the RD candidates so at the very worst, the chances that you'll get in are the same. Plus, you might get an adcom who is biased in some way against your application so having two chances will always increase your chance.</p>
<p>2) The ED pool will eliminate a lot of the over-qualified candidates who just want to apply to Penn as a "back-up" to HYPS. I know of plenty of people who's first choice is HYPS but is applying to Penn regular decision and they are very qualified. (While EA does not eliminate these competitiors because they are not bound to go, ED does)</p>
<p>3) Even if it's true that the applicants for ED are, on average, a little stronger (which can be contested) I believe the huge jump in percentage accepted more than makes up for this. I very highly doubt the Penn ED pool is so much more qualified than the RD pool to warrant that high of a jump in percentage.</p>
<p>Break, I think it helps...somewhat. If you are destined to get in, you're in, no matter what, ED or RD.</p>
<p>Do recruited athletes have to apply ED? Maybe that can explain lower SAT scores...or maybe higher average RD is from many people not willing to put financial aid on the line (many intelligent students can't afford 40k a year on college)...so there are many factors contributing to lower ED SATs. Definately an incentive for college to accept more students ED than RD because of yield but that's about it.</p>
<p>ok i found numbers (thanks to one of hazmat's posts):</p>
<p>Class of 2009 Early Decision Statistics</p>
<p>· There were 3,420 total applications in this year's EDP pool, a new record high. Penn admitted 1,169 of these (34.2%).</p>
<p>· The average combined SAT score for students admitted during EDP is 1413 (694V + 719M).</p>
<hr>
<p>Legacies:
· There were 523 legacy applicants in the EDP pool, down 5.8% from last years 555. 254 of these students were admitted (48.6%).</p>
<p>according to my calculations, 915/2897 of the applicants who are not legacies get accepted, which is about 31.58% The total acceptance rate is 34.2%, which is not that much higher than the acceptance rate for just the non-legacies.</p>
<p>^^^^ Which doesn't mean anything because many qualified students apply early. Like EA in MIT and other top schools, early is very competitve. But since ED is binding, I think it must be just as competitive as RD. Look at Penn's website...they accept only 30% of the applicants who score between a 750-800 on SAT. Why? Because about 70% of applicants can handle Penn's courseload as show by SATs, so I think ED is simply Penn accepting more qualified students. Lower percentage in SAT may be explained by alumni, recruited athletes and the reason below!</p>
<p>I think Early ONLY helps those people who truly love and want to be at Penn. I think Penn likes the comittment and a true desire to go to the school. If you express that in your essays, ED is going to help somewhat. For other students applying ED just to get an easy 34% chance into an Ivy, it doesn't help.</p>
<p>I just ran across this from Peterson's, Panicked Parents book( except in this family it's the other way around ;)</p>
<p>Common sense suggests that only early decision applicants are top-notch students - not only more organized but also more qualified than the masses, who, months later, will be racing to finish their regular decision forms. While many admissions officers do little to dispel this myth, in truth, the early decision option can be a good bet for more middle of the road candidates as well. To some degree, the bird-in-hand versus two in the bush theory is operating here. Even if some of th early birds aren't as strong as the rest of the flock that will follow in the spring, admission folks know they are sure things. "It is somewhat easier to be admitted early decision here," says Lee Stetson, dean of admission at the U of Penn (where about 40 percent enters under the ED option)."Everybody likes to be loved, and we're no exception at Penn. We want students who really want to attend, not those who are resigned to come."</p>
<p>This IS somewhat dated, I guess - because ED is now closer to 50 not 40 percent, but still interesting (and hope inspiring).</p>
<p>The quote from collegecountdown says it perfectly. Bottom line, Penn is very sensible. They realize that nearly all kids applying early, with the exception of a few, REALLY want to be at Penn. Like me. That what you're telling the admissions officers by applying early. And thats generally why Penn accepts more applicants early. Its also why Penn has one of the highest "happiness" ratings of all colleges (I don't remember what its called). More kids are really happy that they are at Penn. I hope i get in...at least the app is out and now I just have to wait..45 days and coutning..or whatever it is</p>