<p>whenever i tell people/friends that im changing my major to philosophy every single person seems so shocked, and they all say "wow thats a big change" or something along those lines.its getting annoying. is it really so shocking? is it typical for engineering students to change to a humanities type of major, or does everyone just stick with math and science because they cant write papers in engineering</p>
<p>its not shocking. theyre just pretending to be shocked cause your conversation must really suck. no, but really, i dont get what you're asking.</p>
<p>Well, I am "shocked". What took you so long to "switch"? :)</p>
<p>I think what they are saying is actually: That's quite a change (in future salary).</p>
<p>i just wanted to know if its fairly common for an engineering major to switch to humanities type of study, or is it very rare? </p>
<p>i dont get why ppl are answering with such a demeaning tone. are people bitter because im leaving engineering? Mr Payne i dont care about salary if im doing something that im not interested in or passionate about then whats the point. or maybe i should just change back to engineering for the salary...</p>
<p>and dallas808 i missed the joke/sarcasm in ur post entirely.</p>
<p>If it's what you want to do for sure, then go after it. Depending on your justification though, people may view it negatively. If it's because you did a little philosophy on the side and really really loved Descartes, then that's cool. But if you just switched randomly because you hate engineering, then some may see that as a cop out, as engineering courseloads are generally much heavier and more demanding than those of humanities majors. Sure for some of the really briliant scientists with mildly autistic personalities, humanities might be a nightmare, but otherwise most everyone will have a much easier time than in a science/engineering major. Not that any particular major will cap your potential, but it does affect how people perceive you for sure.</p>
<p>oh. no i didnt cop out. its not like i was doing bad in engineering and failed out or anything. its more that i "really really loved Descartes". my heart wasnt in engineering, so all of the classes were boring and tedious. i did alright grades wise but i never looked forward to any of my classes. i basically did it for the job prospect and money rather than a true interest. then i learned my lesson. last yr i was one of those ppl on here who was money this and money that. (you all know who you are) and ppl kept saying dont do it for the money, do it cuz ur interested in it, and i just ignore them i think everything will be okay. but only now do i really see what they are saying. besides, i dont think phil is gonna be drastically easier anyways. its a trade-off. sure i may nvr have to do math or science hw again, but ill have to write long paper after paper which i dont think is easier than math homework. </p>
<p>(btw, im still taking Linear Algebra and Physics this quarter. ill be a phil major when i come back next yr)</p>
<p>Have you thought at length about what you want to do for a career. There is no standard career track for philosophy. In fact, there is nothing in terms of future career that philosophy gives you that engineering doesn't (other than a PhD in philosophy). Engineering gives you way more options when you are out of school. </p>
<p>Having a crappy engineering job sucks. Having a crappy Starbuck's job sucks worse. Money should weigh in with your eventual major decision. Money is hugely important in everyone's life. The difference in quality of life between a 35K/year and 60k/year job is absolutely massive. One means a new car, health care (most likely), and vacations out of the country. The other one doesn't.</p>
<p>yeah, and if i choose engineering and endure 4 years of torturous work, then scrape by with a BS degree. do you think im gonna make money if i dont even like what im doing and dread going to work each day. count the seconds until its time to go home? i'd prob get fired if i followed through with engineering anyways. i'd rather earn a philosophy degree and enjoy and learn the 4 yrs that im in college, then suffer through hell for 4 yrs, and then suffer even more after college cuz it'll be just like the suffering in college multiplied by the rest of my life! </p>
<p>and as far as i know, basically any other job you can obtain with an engineering degree EXCEPT engineering itself, can be obtained with a phil degree...so i dont kno what all these other options you're refering to are.</p>
<p>Cronus88, my comment is based on my personal observation over the years. Many co-workers, who switched from other fields to CS/ECE because of the job prospect and money, learnt the skills but never developed a true interest. Subsequently they found their jobs mundane, hopped from places to places for better pay and eventually felt "stucked" in an unfulfilled career. I am delighted that you somehow find the courage to switch. So, what took you so long?! :)</p>
<p>Your hesitation is well understood. There will be a lot of naysayers (hopefully your parents aren't one of them). It isn't easy to follow your heart. If you have the gift, passion, training, willingness to work hard and a bit of luck, you will do fine in any field. Whatever your ultimate field, aim to be among the best. Trust me, the money will follow. </p>
<p>While on the money subject, learn to become an investor, i.e. the art of wealth building. It's a life skill that I think you find invaluable in years ahead.</p>
<p>This should give you an idea of what philosophy majors tend to do. </p>
<p><a href="http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Philo.stm%5B/url%5D">http://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Philo.stm</a></p>
<p>This doesn't give a full picture, but if, for example, you do want to go all the way with a Philosophy PhD, from what I've seen on the graduate board it's very hard to get into any program and even after the degree, you pretty much have to wait for tenured professors to die and rush in with a hundred other PhD philosophers to fight for the spot. Just something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>
[quote]
and as far as i know, basically any other job you can obtain with an engineering degree EXCEPT engineering itself, can be obtained with a phil degree...so i dont kno what all these other options you're refering to are.
[/quote]
Unless you go to an elite school (which you don't) or go to a vocational type program (Accounting, Business Administration, Engineering)...the job market is very grim. If you are from CA, there virtually no places that you can buy a house for 35k/year (median salary of Berkeley Philosophy grads). If you've thought about all this - great, you know what you're getting into. If you haven't...you should.</p>
<p>WOW! That job placement is very alarming and that is after graduating from Berkeley! Good JD placement though...</p>
<p>
[quote]
...or does everyone just stick with math and science because they cant write papers in engineering
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I always did better on my papers than the humanities kids ;)</p>
<p>No one is saying you should not do what you enjoy but hopefully you can choose a career you enjoy, not just 4 years of classes.</p>
<p>I have a lot of respect for Philosophy majors but it seems as though Philosophy is one of the hardest majors to make a profit on (little job selection, little money.) I wish we could all just major in what we want...to study for 4 years everything that was denied to us in High School, and then afterwards comfortably settle into job-training at the job we love...</p>
<p>But moving away from the nostalgia, I might have to make a decision opposite of what you're doing. I might have to move away from the liberal arts (probably the Japanese major) and change into a more profitable but difficult/boring major like Business Administration. It's not an easy thing to do, and I don't sleep well at night considering that I'm giving up on a dream while moving into a seemingly more competitive major.</p>
<p>hey, philosophy is a great major
hope you'll enjoy it</p>
<p>i don't have the courage to major in what i want (music) and instead is now torn from doing a double major or not</p>
<p>philosophy <em>is</em> a great LSAT and Law School prep major, so maybe a JD in your future....and if you want to be a professor chances are much better as a Law Professor than a Phil Professor (and you get to do "philosophical" type papers/research) AND you have good career exit options.</p>
<p>just saying!</p>
<p>Cronus88</p>
<p>I realize that this forum was created by you in 2007, but I stumbled upon it looking for guidance on the Internet and feel like I should share my story. Also, just the fact that I stumbled upon this gives me a little hope.</p>
<p>I am a third year chemical engineering major and am in a very similar predicament. My grades aren’t bad, I don’t hate it, I don’t hate the teachers, but I just don’t have a passion in it, and I am just now realizing this. I don’t have an urge to go to class or get to know my faculty on a personal basis. The few philosophy courses and English courses I have taken absolutely make me happy. I put forth more work and more effort, going way over and beyond the calling of the assignment. I was always so sad that my huge ChemE course load sometimes interfered with all the work I really wanted to do on my phil and English courses (I take one humanities every semester, not realizing that it was really a sign of what I really enjoyed). </p>
<p>I am like you in that I simply liked math and science and chemistry and thought hey, great job prospects, good money. But my passion just isn’t in it. Now, it’s getting past bearable. I skipped every class today, and I never skip class, ever! I spent all morning reading up on the health care debate and researching logical arguments for and against it, and I was happy. And just thinking about the physics and engineering work I have to do completely drained me. I knew something had to be done, and I got online just now and Google searched “engineering major switching to philosophy” and got to this. </p>
<p>My passion lies in philosophy, how arguments are structured, law, and writing. I love it so much. Happiness is so much more important than money, and I realize that now. I personally feel so privileged to only be in college and have the opportunity to switch gears like this, instead of switching careers. I am so glad this finally dawned on me before I got in industry.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think I have a great compromise for myself that will be both creating happiness and thinking smart. I can’t think about dropping three years of chemical engineering courses (a 5-year program). So I have decided to double major, adding a B.S. in Phil and a minor in English. This will give me about three years of phil and English courses and 2 years of chemE courses to finish, and will allow me to bare taking only one or two chemE courses each semester while focusing more on what I love and enjoy. Also, I will still be able to be happy and eventually get my ChemE degree. I cannot let that go completely, not after all this, and I think this compromise is the perfect coercion between happiness and practicality. After I graduate with my two degrees, I will have complete freedom to do only what I enjoy and what makes me happy.</p>
<p>What do you think about all this? I’m going to get some advising from a couple lawyers I know and ask them how crazy my idea to follow my passion truly is; but I have a feeling that this idea is here to stay. </p>
<p>Don’t listen to anyone else or anything else but you and your heart. Happiness is hard to find, and I know a lot of people who aren’t happy. Now that I have found happiness, I feel at peace with myself and cannot wait to see where this road takes me in life.</p>
<p>Since this was posted so long ago, could you let me know what happened with you and your major switch? I’m interested seeing as we a so similarly relatable right now. </p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Cody</p>
<p>(pardon the sloppy writing)</p>
<p>LaBarrister, I’m obviously not the OP, but your plan sounds more plausible than the OP’s. There is nothing wrong with pursuing your dreams, and if you want to study philosophy this is definitely the time to do it, so long as you are willing to bear the expense and time commitment. Just remember that you are not realistically going to combine these two majors in a single career, so remember that one of those majors is really just for your personal education.</p>
<p>The big question for the OP (and, to a lesser extent, you) is what you will do for a career? Studying what you want is all fine and good, but only a handful of philosophy majors ever find jobs in their field - the rest are either severely underemployed (as dishwashers, perhaps) or jump into law or some other area. You plan on getting your ChemE degree so I am assuming that you plan on becoming a highly philosophical engineer, or do you plan on using it as a backup?</p>
<p>Just as a reminder, I know lots of unemployed or underemployed people who followed their dreams in college (which is fine) without working towards a career (which isn’t). If this is what you want, just make sure that you have a complete and realistic plan for what will happen in 3 years when you graduate.</p>