<p>It is in fact a very large problem for the 28 accused of cheating. To the 19% who are failing a class or have below a 2.00 average, it is a large problem, but one that most of them will deal with successfully. To the rest of USAFA it is not much of a problem at all. To the rest of us, it really isn't any problem in spite of all the rhetoric. There's just a ghoulish interest in observing the port mortem.</p>
<p>The CC admin is justified in featuring this story. Cheating should never be tolerated in academics. I hope that other educational institutions will be inspired to take the eradication of academic dishonesty as seriously as USAFA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...they live by a different code, out of necessity, than the rest of us...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No. They live by that code by CHOICE. </p>
<p>THAT is what makes them special.</p>
<p>it should be a featured discussion... just because it doesnt shed light on the university as a whole doesnt mean it doesnt shed light on some aspect of the university... cadets coming here for info should have all available knowledge available</p>
<p>Gasdoc
I beg to differ.
1. Many private & public universities do NOT turn a blind eye to cheating. My alma mater & the university I teach at have honor codes and very strict observances of cheating violations which usually end with expulsion.
2. In private & public universities failing students do not come back - and they have student loans to repay without a degree. Even state colleges will put a failing freshman on probation and restrict their on campus privileges, like housing, until the GPA is acceptable.</p>
<p>However, an important difference between the academies and other schools is that the students are not paying for their education, we are, and eventually the students will be responsible for defending our nation. They should be expected to know their knowledge, and anything else the military tells them to know.<br>
I believe the majority are earnest hard-working conscientious students, but those who are not should be held accountable. And we have the right to discuss this openly.
I also believe the academy, in this atmosphere of increasing military need, cannot be allowed to relax their standards of admission. How many of you know great potential cadets/midshipman who were denied access for simple medical reasons or due to the oh-so-political nomination process?</p>
<p>Just to put it in perspective:</p>
<p>WP -</p>
<p>I think the article cited above speaks to the norm - expulsion is a rare and is never accompanied by a press release. Even fraud among faculty because of lax primary source verification has been a recurring issue. The American taxpayer subsidizes most kids who attend colleges and universities, whether public or private, which is probably a reason why cost has has spiraled out of control...a model very similar to health care.</p>
<p>I think the Administrator did what is expected. He posted the link (url) and a short quote from the article so we could see the topic. He did not editorialize at all. Good Admin work.</p>
<p>"How many of you know great potential cadets/midshipman who were denied access for simple medical reasons or due to the oh-so-political nomination process?"</p>
<p>Frankly, none. Waivers are available for "simple" medical problems and are frequently granted. The nomination process is the lowest hurdle for a qualified candidate. Even in districts where congressmen refuse to make any nominations because of their opposition to the military, qualified candidates are able to find nominations through the academy or other sources.</p>
<p>I went to a secular university with an honor system that was and remains effective. However, that is the exception rather than the rule. Recent studies have shown that over half the students in business schools admit to having cheated. Some even claim that it was good training for a world of business where skill at cheating is expected. There are even cute little rules for cheating, like on a multiple choice test always print a "c" if you don't know the answer. Then it can easily be changed to a printed "a", "b", or "d" and returned for being misgraded. Of course that's very primitive compared to the use of calculators and electronic devices that communicate with each other. If some students put as much effort into their work as they did into their cheating, they would pass honestly. I teach at a Christian school, and even there I have been unsuccessful at convincing many students that cheating is wrong or even unwise. By the time a student is in high school their character is pretty much already formed, and it takes a true miracle to change it in any fundamental way.</p>
<p>WP2010Mom, I don't think anyone is suggesting that other private and public universities tolerate cheating. However, I believe most reasonable people would agree that cheating does occur at these institutions, including institutions that have substantial national and international reputations. When such cheating is uncovered, why does it not become a national scandal as it does when it is uncovered at a military academy? </p>
<p>Individual instances of student dishonesty sometimes pierce the national consciousness as in the case of a supposed wunderkind at Harvard a few years back who was shown to have used plagiarized material in a novel she had written. But I cannot recall a media feeding frenzy arising in connection with allegations that (for example) ten engineering students at State U were caught using a purloined answer sheet.</p>
<p>You suggest that the reason the academies are more closely scrutinized is because the cadets' educations are entirely paid for with taxpayer money. I think that's part of the explanation. As Gasdoc points out, students at public universities also have their educations heavily subsidized by taxpayer money.</p>
<p>Clearly, there are other factors influencing the asymmetry of outrage.</p>
<p>But the asymmetry of outrage is a problem the academies can do little to control. What they can do is continue to work very hard to inculcate the qualities of moral courage, honor, and leadership that each cadet must have to bear up under the scrutiny.</p>
<p>Good post. Cadets at US service academies are certainly scrutinized more than the average college student, and some of the reasons have been previously mentioned. And it should remain this way due to the potentially phenomenal level of responsibility that a cadet may assume after commissioning. How many recent college grads have control of machines that can single-handedly level cities, or units that can accomplish the same goal?</p>
<p>IMO, service academies should be eliminated. Take your top prior enlisted and let them compete for ROTC slots. The best get scholarships and the rest pay their own way. And they are all placed in a reserve status until commissioning or disenrollment. I know that this is a different issue than the thread topic, and it doesn't directly address cheating on any level, but I honestly feel that the armed forces would receive a better product.</p>
<p>I am a retired military officer, an AFROTC graduate. I worked alongside OCS officers, ROTC officers, and USAFA/USNA/USMA officers. I believe each commission source brings its strengths to the officer corps. I was very impressed with most of the USAFA graduates I knew, and I am convinced there is great value in the unique military academy undergraduate experience.</p>
<p>So many personal agendas (close the academy, defend the academy, expel the cheaters, forgive the cheaters). </p>
<p>Anyone who agrees to attend the Academies accepts the responsibility of the honor code. This is a necessary tool to build trust and bond the cadets to a common purpose. These young men and women have agreed not only to defend our nation, but to lead and protect the servicemembers assigned to them. I have worked for Academy grads, ROTC grads, and OCS officers. Given the choice I'll take an Academy grad every day. I always knew what was expected an where I stood with an Academy grad. I am certain that is the result of the honor code.</p>
<p>I also appreciate General Regni being public and addressing the matter directly. It would be easy in this day and age to dismiss the event. </p>
<p>So for the future Cadets remember your actions have consequences.</p>
<p>For parents support the choices </p>
<p>For defenders of the institution this will pass</p>
<p>For the critics (stop hating america)</p>
<p>this happens all the time...but they got caught, sucks for them</p>
<p>Well, the posts in this thread have for the most part been carefully thought out and crafted. It sets a really high standard for Internet commentary. I can't help but compare it with the comments posted with the Gazette article. They tended to represent a pretty foolish amalgamation of half-baked kneejerk reactions. Thanks to all of you who thoughtfully contribute to this forum. It certainly means a lot to me, and, I'm sure to many others.</p>
<p>From the commentary at the Gazette:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cadet 08..have you ever been to a REAL college? Must be why you joined the Air Force.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's "thoughts" like this that make defending people's right to free speech really difficult at times. :mad:</p>
<p>Ironically, Zaph, that is exactly what these young men and women ("who are not at REAL colleges" ) will be doing when they graduate: defending our free speech (among other things!) And they won't hesitate to risk there lives to do so...</p>
<p>I'd like to see 90% of the colleges out there compare with the academics, discipline, and stress and this place. The comments written on the Gazette board were a fiasco to say the least.</p>
<p>I, for one, am very glad that I am here. I turned down some good colleges to come, and after graduation will turn down countless opportunities for myself in order to serve...and will be glad to do so. </p>
<p>I guess these kinds of people can't fathom the sacrifice involved. Good thing they don't have to.</p>
<p>Remember one important thing as a parent of a service academy cadet versus just a college student. Your son or daughter made a very adult decision to attend - no one should go to an academy because Mom or Dad made the decison (which generally happens for selecting a civilian college). If you are on active duty or retired yourself, you must take your son or daughter off of your DEERs (military system for dependent benefits) - as they get their own military I.D. card as independent adults (as well as a dependent with the IRS). As parents you don't even have a right to get their grades unless the cadet signs a form giving permission for release to you. My son was accepted at some pretty good colleges (Ga Tech, U. WA, and UCLA) - he still jokes about how different UCLA would have been. As he is now approaching his "100 Days", graduation, casual duty, then pilot training, you can imagine how I can't stop bursting out at the seams in pride. But the biggest chest-swelling emotion came that morning after his in-processing in 2003 when we saw how quickly the Class of 2007 was trained to form up for their first march. I held it in - but at lunch in a Pizza Hut on our drive home I am not ashamed to say I let out a few tears. I have never been so proud of my son that day - and every milestone of his academy years since, and how he is taking responsibility for his own future. So for you parents of 2011, get ready to burst a few buttons on your shirts - your son/daughter is not attending just another college.</p>
<p>Yes!!!!!!!</p>