<p>I've always told my kids that I would rather them get poor grades than resort to cheating. I also have told them -- and also said to teachers --- that if my kids are caught cheating, I would want my kids to be held accountable. </p>
<p>I also don't think that cheaters win. If they get some opportunities due to cheating, they'll always know that they didn't deserve those opportunities, and IMO that means they didn't "win" because they have to answer to their own conscience.</p>
<p>Because this kid is winning schlolarships, getting written up in the paper and taking someone elses spot. That why we are ragging on this kid. The student flagrantly cheated, was caught, but the principal seems to prefer getting the glory of the awards than doing the right thing. He is rubbing peoples faces in the fact he got away with it. That is obnoxius</p>
<p>So because everyone is so afraid of liars and cheats, no one ever says anything and it continues. That is really sad. </p>
<p>PS- I would really be surpised if the cheating incidents were on the transcripts fully describing the incidents. And if the kid is a cheater, how do you know the rest of what he is saying is true? He is a known cheat and liar, so......</p>
<p>Yes, life isn't fair, and is full of inequities and injustices. But that doesn't mean we should sit by tacitly and pretend it isn't happening. This is an issue of integrity. This whole situation makes me think about Thoreau, Ghandi and MLK's teachings on civil disobedience. Perhaps that is because someone yesterday started a thread on the 35th anniversary of the Kent State shootings. While I am certainly not suggesting any kind of grand protest at Texastaximom's graduation, there are other, appropriate ways of addressing accountability. What ever happened to ethics and morals???</p>
<p>Loreli-
I am sorry that happened to you in HS, and that the justice system provided you no justice, but I see your situation as a personal one. It stinks that the other girl involved and her family "won", as it were, but at least you tried to pursue the issue through the courts. For you to show your dissatisfaction at graduation would not have been appropriate. You handled it as you should have. I think the situation that Texastaximom describes isn't just a personal one. It affects their graduating class, the teachers, the school and the school board/administration. I agree that it may not be helpful to sink to the level of the offender/cheater and do something undignified, but to put on a happyface at graduation and honor multiple, identified, proven incidents of dishonesty just doesn't seem right. This isn't "picking on" or "ratting on" the one student. It is the inequality of the punishment, of the consequences for these multiple offenses that is wrong. It isn't that people merely "know" this kid cheated. He/she was caught on mutiple occasions. What they did was wrong. And how it was handled by the school was wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right...</p>
<p><em>edit</em>-
Citygirlsmom's post just hit-- I fully agree-- and with Northstarmom.</p>
<p>Yeah my parents laid the law down while we were young, I remember in seventh grade my older brother was caught cheating with a dictoinary in his desk, the english teacher called my mom in and said they would suspend him. My mother's reply was "do it, he's all yours, my son doesn't cheat, do as you wish. LOL. The English teacher, who later became mine, was amazed by this and eventually did not report it, but gave him a zero for the assignment. She's still really good friends with my mother</p>
<p>jym626: The point is exactly that public displays call other issues into the matter. Passive displays are usually better respected than active protests. Personal issue aside (and how is it not a public issue when the courts fail?) the pertinent topic is the array of approaches one can take to address this issue. Parents (and students) can and are informing higher authorities than those unwise enough to take appropriate action. If that is ineffective, aggressive public displays usually are more detrimental to the protestor than the accused. There certainly was no suggestion of anyone putting on a happy face of celebration at the graduation ceremony, but rather a discussion of what public behavior would be appropriate if official action fails the system. IMHO it would be a larger travesty to ruin the graduation celebration of the rest of the graduates in order to punish one undeserving person.</p>
<p>no one said ruin the event. Just don't celebrate the cheaters "victory". You applaud loudly for those deserving and sit siletnly for those not. That is not disruptive. Its actually very dignified. No booing no turning of backs, just not honoring someone who cheats. Why applaud someone who hasn't earned it?</p>
<p>The kids already know its a travesty. Its a sham really.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IMHO it would be a larger travesty to ruin the graduation celebration of the rest of the graduates in order to punish one undeserving person.
[/quote]
I couldn't agree more. I hope I wasn't unclear earlier-- when I said yours was a personal matter, what I meant was that unless it was a big issue all over your school, the community and the newspaper, many others might not have been aware of the situation and the specifics. I don't know if you live in a big community or a small town, and I certainly hope your injuries weren't severe. And even if the civil action and court case were well known in your community, were others as invested in the issue as you?? Did the outcome affect them in any way? That is all I meant-- I am sure you had lots of supporters, but it probably wasn't appropriate to make an issue at graduation. I think that may be true to a degree for texastaxismom too. No one wants their graduation ceremony ruined. And I imagine there are plenty of parents and family members of graduates who don't know about the cheating scandal and will applaud all the graduates as they go up to get their diplomas. But, like you did, those that feel strongly should hold their applause. Maybe they should have 25 pizzas delivered, and send 50 magazine subscriptions to the cheaters house too :) (jk) Actually, I am not sure who I would be more upset with-- the cheater or the school administration. Both are in the wrong...</p>
<p>More cheating reflections:</p>
<p>Well here is it Saturday, and I have not heard anything back from the principal. The superintendent was unaware, as were the school board members I contacted. The super forwarded the situation on to the scholarship entity. </p>
<p>There is a senior banquet next Wednesday, and graduation of course. Apparently one of the GCs and some of the staff are just as bothered, perhaps they will be able to do something as well. I know that the student will not be able to wear the NHS stole. To clap or not to clap will be left to each individual. I expect silence.</p>
<p>No, I don't think anyone is suggesting ruining the whole graduation. By the way, there will be about 700 seniors walking the stage--most of whom didn't cheat. I <em>DO</em> think that withholding applause is appropriate. After all, you clap for what inspires you. Part of accepting the senior awards is the acknowledgement of your peers and family. If there is no acknowledgement, then the message is sent--we don't like cheaters. We know what you did, and we don't think you are deserving.</p>
<p>I also decided against contacting the newspaper--I don't think that it would serve much puprpose. Would it humilate the cheater? Perhaps. Probably not. Nothing else has. Will it change the behavior? Again no. Could it actually gain the cheat sympathy if everyone gangs up on them? Quite possibly. Will it change what transpired in the past? No. </p>
<p>HOWEVER, I will be pursuing the issue of the principal not stepping in after repeated cheating episodes, and doing something that would have precluded this child from ascending to the top and collecting scholarships. I am going to send an official letter, and I will speak before the school board in open session about this particular event, name of the cheat withheld to avoid slander issues. The principal should be canned. This is not the only "sin of omission" and I don't know how a superintendent can function if he does not know what the people underneath are up to.</p>
<p>I also want to see some sort of academic dishonesty policy put in the student handbook with set consequences. If A happens then B. </p>
<p>It now looks like some of this person's recommendations may have been forged (alleged) because none of the teachers will vouch for writing them. Someone signed off on this child's paperwork for those scholarships--and the teachers, the GCs and the principal all knew this child's history. </p>
<p>So I've decided to move my focus not to the cheater--as much as it bothers me to see them rewarded, they will wash out of college in short order--but rather to the administration that let this happen. They can't just ignore cheating. There needs to be a mechanism in place for cheating, one that ensures your bogus grades can't catapult you to the top of the heap.</p>
<p>Texastaximom - that sounds like a very reasonable and good plan. The cheater was caught and did receive (inadequate) punishment. Focusing on the broader issue of how to handle cheating and the principal's response is more appropriate. Good luck with this issue - and look out; you'll probably wind up on a committee.</p>
<p>It certainly sounds to me as though you are moving in the right direction, Texastaximom. As you mentioned in an earlier post, your S gains nothing by having this cheater's ill-gotten gains exposed and hopefully revoked. I think that makes you the perfect candidate to undertake the task of ensuring that the principal, superintendent, and school board members are all aware of this particular case, which it sounds like you have aptly done. We would, of course, hope that all cheaters are brought to justice, but this particular case sounds like such an "in your face" offense. I know how easy it would be for someone to say "I don't have a dog in this fight" and be done with it, but I applaud you for bringing this case to light. Keep the course and good luck in helping to prevent future injustices such as this.</p>
<p>I too support your plan. My main concern is the child who lost out on a scholarship that went to the cheater. I do believe the scholarship entity should rethink their decision and if in fact there were forged letters, well that is something the colleges offering acceptances should know about. If the school won't "step up" then an annonymous notification may be better since you could end up the brunt of the cheater's family's wrath.</p>
<p>I will caution you though to do this carefully. Two years ago a local all boys private school in our areas was involved in a senior "scandel" that took up the local papers and radio stations for more than a year. Obviously some of the infatuation was because of the wealthy nature of the student body and the code the school lives by. The headmaster ended up getting sued by the parents when the boy was expelled. Someone at the school notified the college where he was accepted, a day after the school's lawyer allegedly counseled the school to have no communication on this issue, that staff memeber was terminated. The final court decision was more or less a comprimise but while it was in the court process the student was home schooled by the school and awarded a diploma although I don't believe he was permitted to attend graduation ceremonies and I do not know if his college acceptance at the original school was rescinded.</p>
<p>I am appauled that the school doesn't do something about this child's GPA. The removal of his NHS robe at least demonstrates that they all know about it which then begs the question as to why they are not addressing it.</p>
<p>My policy on committees now is "JUST SAY NO."</p>
<p>I've been on several in the past, as has my husband. Everything from the school site based committee to the strategic planning committee. It has been disappointing to say the least. Our district likes to make it appear as though these are serious committees, but really it is about getting token parents so they can say "parents were involved." But open your mouth, and they will deny your issues exist. </p>
<p>My husband was most recently on a drug policy committee as he is in law enforcement. His conclusion, they have a perfectly decent drug policy, they just don't enforce it. The committee came into being after several high profile drug busts at the school. It died just as quickly as the publicity from the busts. In fact, the asst. principal presented "findings" and "conclusions" at a board meeting after the committee stopped meeting 3 months prior. None of the presentation had been approved by the members. So we are back to the uneven consequences for drug use.</p>
<p>I spent numerous hours on the strategic planning committee--lots of meetings, research etc....and our conclusion was that the school needed to be broken back down into two, or possibly three high schools. The district stacked the committees with all of their "up and comers" ( I notice that almost all of them have been promoted) whose purpose was to block any deconsolidation recommendations. Now the school board has just hired an expensive consultant and guess what they said? We need three high schools. Thank you very much.</p>
<p>Fortunately, my younger two are in a different school district. It has issues, but they are small and can be handled. We let the older two finish high school where they started, although I was wondering if child protective services would show up on my door for mental abuse of a child. When my second son graduates in three weeks, I can close the door on this very messed up school district. I did try to fix it, but I'm not going to circle the drain. </p>
<p>I consider this cheating issue my parting shot.</p>
<p>texastaximom-
I understand your choice not to go to the media. It is just a shame that injustice seems to prevail. I wish your corrupt school administration would somehow be exposed. It is a shame what it does to all the students and faculty in the school. By the way, the story I mentioned yesterday about the boy in Columbus, Ga who got expelled for talking on the cellphone to his mom in Iraq? I thought it was local/regional news. Today I read the article on the the front news screen of AOL !!!</p>
<p>texastaximom - I think you are showing maturity and good judgment in the approach you are now taking.</p>
<p>Texasmom,
I agree with your plan. It also looks like a lot of people including faculty are upset about what happened. I hope that the district takes corrective action against the principal so that this kind of situation can not arise again.</p>
<p>Cheaters often pay later in life especially if their line between honesty and dishonesty becomes blurred. That is not to say that they may not be successful in the interim, or even for their lives. But when cheating becomes the way of your life, you really do run the risk of losing so much more than you gain.</p>
<p>texastaximom-
I just reread the post you wrote this morning. Please keep us posted of the outcome of your meeting with the School Board. You are right about the need for a more reasoned principal and a clearer set of guidelines in the student handbook. Keep us posted, too, of the status of the questionable letters of recommendation.As they say, "oh what a tangled web we weave.....when first we practice to deceive".
Good luck with graduation next week. Keep us posted on that as well.</p>
<p>Forgery...that's an interesting twist...now that will be hard to cover up if it is true...</p>
<p>What a great day it will be when you are out of there.</p>
<p>I am counting the days at my Ds school. Some kids I will aplaud loudly, others, I will do my silent protest. I am not recruiting other parents or anything, but I would feel hypocritical applauding someone who doesn't deserve it.</p>
<p>Actually the list is quite long.
Known infractions include:
The stealing of an answer book.
The stealing of others papers.
Copying lab work and papers.
Changing a test grade (on the paper).
Lying about being informed of a science fair project criteria.
Not reporting outside scholarships to the college.</p>
<p>Possible infraction:
Letters of rec from????? (possible forgery)</p>
<p>This child is a piece of work. The problem is how that child was allowed to continue this pattern of cheating. It was brought to the administration's attention back in the first semester. The NHS sponsor had to try more than once to get the child removed from NHS. Obviously the grade didn't suffer enough, nor did the ISS deter the cheater. There probably is no set policy for cheating, and I think there should be one. If A then B. Repeated cheating should be dealt with harshly. A nice zero for every bogus assignment, and removal from the class if the behavior continues. The AP science classes are electives, not mandatory--so it would not keep them from graduating, it would just keep them from graduating at the top of the class. And I do think scholarship committees have the right to know that a student has been suspended for cheating so they can base their decision on all the fact. It took money out of some deserving child's pocket. Maybe there are more cheaters, but this is a repeat offender in more than one class that has come to everyone's attention. My son has never seen anything like it before.</p>
<p>So yes...next step is to craft a letter for the public comments section of the school board meeting. The superintendent always attends.</p>
<p>As a TX teacher, I, too have had to serve on committees. There were 3 of us from our HS on the last one, and an element was on ethics, etc., we proposed a district-wide honor code, and everyone was thrilled. By the time the principals joined our group we had everything set to go, and then the final outcome didn't have anything about this in it. We realized the outcome was preconceived and we were there for show. The principal is backing down as ours do, when the parents scream lawyer and kick up a big fuss. It doesn't look good for him with central office. Better not to stir things up. We could get sued. As for the forgery - I would bet some of those people wrote letters, and now that this has become an issue, (if they said no, then the mom might cause a problem) they don't want anyone to know that they did. It was easier to write the letters than to say no. And even if something is true, people are afraid to put the bad things into a letter because they are afraid of their liability. Unfair, I know, but...</p>