ChemE Student on Academic Suspension for the 2nd Time: Finish or Start Over?

Parents Forum
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“The very language you use to describe what you did makes it very clear that you have not taken responsibility in your mind for your actions.”

My youngest son is a natural diplomat. One of our household inside jokes refers to when he was 3 or 4 years old and I’d been called into the preschool Director’s office to discuss an incident. When we asked DS what happened, he calmly and carefully explained that “mulch found itself being thrown.”

The wording in the original post uses similar passive, avoidant phrasing. It’s funny when it is coming from a preschooler who is trying to avoid admitting guilt without lying, but less understandable when it comes from an adult. Some of the language uses some of the right buzzwords, such as accepting full responsibility, but other phrasing used to describe the incident implies an attempt to shift blame. People will notice those things, so it’s worth considering what image you’d like to project.

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You’re 22, I’m 17. I went through similar mental state last year. I went through freshman and sophomore with straight As, all honors and AP if available. Junior year I decided to take a mental break. Worse timing I know. Parents begged, threatened, offered help anyway they can. My grades dumped. I refused to believe that it was my own doing, the spoiled brat side of me blamed everything and everyone else except myself. At the lowest I committed suicide. Swallowed some pills but apparently I didnt take enough. My parents walked on egg shells with me. They spent thousands of thousands hiring psychologists, tutors… I ignored it all. Now I’m getting a taste of my own medicine, not being able to get into great universities because of it. But what I do get out of it is that we have to take responsibilities for ourselves. I will make the best of what life throws at me, and most importantly, I’m thankful for my parents that I know will mortgage their house just to pave my road to success.

My opinion, stop making your parents pay for your mistakes. You got caught. Your reaction is because you got caught. Do your ‘jail time’, work, take a loan if you want to finish college. Your parents already paid for 5 years of your school, it’s time to stop and be responsible for yourself.

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I would do everything you can to graduate now.
Appeal.
A different school isn’t going to change anything.

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Now I’m getting a taste of my own medicine, not being able to get into great universities because of it. But what I do get out of it is that we have to take responsibilities for ourselves. I will make the best of what life throws at me, and most importantly, I’m thankful for my parents that I know will mortgage their house just to pave my road to success.

@clueness2000, If you are expecting your parents to pave your road to success (by mortgaging their house!?!?!), you have a long, long, way to go before you are taking responsibility for yourself. Take responsibility for yourself and attend a school your parents can afford without massive loans.

OP, you can’t start over at a different college with a clean slate. Wherever you choose to transfer, your UCSD transcripts must be be disclosed, as well as any academic sanctions. Choose to be ethical. Acting with honesty and integrity is valued in every culture. There are plenty of people in this work who act in that manner who also deal with mental illness.

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@CountingDown you are misunderstanding my message. I’m trying to tell the OP that I have great parents that always stood by my side and are willing to do anything for me, which I didn’t realize and appreciate until recently. Sounds like his or her parents are very similar. I am in no way wanting or needing my parents to mortgage their house for me. I am working right now during my senior year and saving up money to help out with my tuition and thanks to my parents, I do have a college fund saved up.

Re reading my original message I do realize that it does carry a different message. It will no longer let me edit so I hope I explained myself.

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The entire point of this degree is to make YOUR life better. A Chem E degree is a wonderful degree to earn but the curriculum is brutal. If the courses are making you absolutely miserable and stressing you out to the point where you are barely hanging on and questioning the value of your own life it is time take a step back and say enough is enough. It’s time for some counseling and some regrouping on your part.

Your parents will get over you pursuing another major, they would never get over losing you so please take care of yourself. I’ll bet that you have enough courses under your belt that you could get another degree pretty easily. Hang in there.

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Apologies for the late response to this thread everyone, I’ve been in discussion with my parents this morning about decisions to make regarding the next steps to take moving forward.

@MaineLonghorn Yes, I think your suggestion is an action I should definitely take during the course of this coming week, if not, tomorrow at the earliest.

@Massmomm I think you’re right. Actually, completely right on the dot. I just feel like I haven’t grown in any way whatsoever and that I’m always stuck on my way of thinking, and its even worse when I can’t understand what message I’m implying from my statements. I’m no expert on language or comprehension, but I feel like I still struggle to understand and recognize the full meanings behind “responsibility” and “blame”. Part of me understands my issues with depression and anxiety, but not so with ethics and cheating. Overall, I think I have problems with articulating the objective facts (I plagiarized) without introducing blame (i.e. my excuses behind the incident, or external factors). How do you think I should move forward when understanding and coming to terms with what I had done?

@gearmom That’s exactly what I want to do. I feel like I’m not projecting that image to others because I don’t really know how to explain that properly without introducing any sort of subjective bias that might corrupt my overall message. And yes, despite the past troubles I’ve had with discipline and integrity, I don’t feel as though I’ve grown in either of those areas. As far as going back to finish goes, my mindset views getting that degree and not wasting anymore money (or time for that matter) as being practical, but the main problem behind that is that my parents and I don’t see eye to eye on that. They’re definitely open to me “starting over” at NU to achieve any degree I get there, especially since they went and graduated from National University. But I don’t know how to explain or convince them that there is some good in using my suspension time wisely and going back to finish and receive my degree. Any thoughts as to how I can do that?

@milee30 I do like the analogy you brought up there with your son and it’s a funny one at that. But it is as you say, articulation, comprehension, and language are three areas I’ve never been able to have a good handle on, whether it be during my high school years or even now. I definitely don’t want to exhibit, or imply, that passive, avoidant image. And its actually worth mentioning that you brought up the “passive, avoidant phrasing” because I truly believe that describes my life and way of thinking in a nutshell. It’s been so ingrained within me that I don’t even know if I can destroy that mentality. I want to grow into being direct and blunt, but how could I do that when my mind is so fixed on being passive?

@Clueless2000 Oh my, I can definitely relate to the degree of struggle you faced, but I’m even more surprised that this happened at an earlier age for you. I’ll admit, I sort of envy you in experiencing and overcoming that type of struggle much earlier. But you’re correct, I ultimately do want to demonstrate and take ownership in being responsible for my actions.

@bopper See, that’s exactly what my mind has been dwelling on for the past few days. But in retrospect, I’m questioning whether there’s any point in appealing. My first appeal for my first offense was denied, and seeing what led to this incident this time, I don’t know what the outcome will really be. As for switching schools, I have a similar thought process on that as well too, but my parents think otherwise. I just don’t understand why they think that me going back to UCSD later on to finish would be bad. They view it as being “pointless” and “a waste of time”.

@CountingDown Well, that’s actually the point that I am going to introduce to my parents later tonight, but I’m not sure how they would respond to that. While I certainly do agree that honesty and integrity are values that I view as being core to one’s character, my actions have certainly stated otherwise.

@flmom26 Thank you for your sincere message. It certainly speaks volumes as to needing all the support, counseling, and reflection I can get, and even more so on the topic of my ChemE degree.My parents do recognize the immense struggles I’ve faced upon pursuing this degree, especially at UCSD, and even mentioned that the fact that these incidents occurred (in conjunction to my curriculum) makes them question what value is there to further pursue a challenging degree.

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OP- big hug to you.

I’m going to give you some straight up/fact based advice.

There are millions of people in this country who have satisfying jobs and professional lives and pay their mortgages every month and have hobbies or do activities that bring them joy- and they have never,ever taken a single engineering course.

You need to do three things:

1- Stabilize your health. That is your A priority right now. It doesn’t matter that your parents don’t believe in therapy or meds. They aren’t living inside your head. You need to level with your doctor if you haven’t- tell him or her how you are feeling, get an accurate assessment of whether or not you are at risk of harming yourself, and how to get yourself back on track health-wise. This is your A-priority right now.

2- Go meet with the Dean responsible for your academic status and issues. Lay everything on the line and be as honest as you can. Tell him/her that your goal is to finish a Bachelor’s degree once you are healthy; enlist his or her help in figuring out the best way to do that. Withdraw for this semester? Take an incomplete? Withdraw but with the option of returning after a probationary period? Get it in writing. If you understood that you were plagiarizing, say so. If you didn’t think you were- say that, but not in a defensive " I didn’t do it" way; lay out the facts and then enlist his/her help in figuring out how to move forward.

3- Get a reality check. There are thousands of colleges in America. Some you likely can afford when you are ready to go back, some you likely cannot. Some you can get into, some you cannot. That’s life. But you can’t make the mistake right now of picking your next college and your next major and your next career goal etc. before you’ve cleaned up the mess you are in right now- and of course, regulated your own health which is the most important thing. College will still be there in a year or two when you are ready to go back to it. Don’t concoct a plan to save face with your parents which involves spending MORE money and more time and more aggravation before you are ready. And you don’t sound ready.

If you were meant to be an engineer it would have happened already. You’d have loved your classes, would have gotten some B’s and C’s but an occasional A, would have found some sort of internship in the field. It didn’t happen and why doesn’t really matter. So close the door on engineering and open it on something else. Teaching 10th grade chemistry and math? Working in Sacramento (you are a Californian, correct?) as a budget analyst on infrastructure issues-- i.e. how much does the state need to spend to fix the crumbling bridges and roads and sanitation systems? Getting a job for a transportation company which designs mass transit systems- and your on the team that explains how the systems or upgrades or new technologies work to prospective customers?

There are hundreds of “engineering adjacent” jobs in America if that’s what you want to do but can’t drag yourself across the finish line with an engineering degree. So fine- you’ll finish a major in whatever subject gets you out of college the quickest once you are healthy again and then you can get on with your life.

Another big hug.

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Oh, apologies for another double post!

I forgot to mention this earlier, but from the discussions I’ve been having with my parents, they tell me not to worry or dwell upon the financial aspects of switching to a different university, but instead focus on what major I’m truly comfortable with. I mentioned that both engineering and chemistry are two particular majors I’m confident in pursuing. They tell me that they’re open to beginning anew and graduating later on with a degree (with hopefully a higher GPA) that “may” open doors to more companies and grad admissions. They seem to be keen on getting me to make these difficult decisions in a timely manner and be preoccupied with starting their recommended program at a different university. However, they said ultimately it’s my decision as to what actions I want to take, and that they will be supportive of any decision I make.

I haven’t spoken to the Dean at UCSD (or an academic advisor for that matter) on what their suggestions are, but I was wondering what thoughts or advice you guys have for the situation I’m in with UCSD and with my parents?

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I don’t understand this: “I mentioned that both engineering and chemistry are two particular majors I’m confident in pursuing.” If you are already a chem e major, why not just finish?

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Grad school?

Don’t allow your parents delusions to cloud your thinking.

You need to meet with a Dean to figure out how to clean up your current mess. You need an appointment with your doctor to figure out how to get healthy.

You do not need to be engaging in wishful thinking about grad school right now. And finding a major you are “truly comfortable with” is a luxury you cannot afford.

You do understand that as far as the university is concerned, they think they’re on the verge of expelling you for dishonesty, right??? And fixing that has to happen before a new college, new major, grad school, “truly comfortable”, right???

You cannot bury your current transcript in the backyard and start all over again even with parents who are happy to pay the bills. You need to face up and fix what’s going on.

And if you think majoring in either engineering or chemistry is going to be easier next time…

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@HailHavoc You can’t start over. Everything comes with you like an albatross. Your grades, your record. It all follows you. You just need those four classes. Let your parents know that there is no start over.

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As my mother used to say, just graduate.

It’s unfortunate you didn’t do better, but that happens. Unfortunate that you may have an interruption now.

You’ll eventually need a solid Plan B to make up for lost time and the misses. But I agree, first you heal, resolve the issues that led you to stumble. Face things as they are, first. Get past dreaming.

Not all young folks thrive in the college environment. Many need the first responsible jobs to get focused. It’s not realistic to talk about changing schools while you’re in this mess. And generally, for a transfer, your present college needs to sign off that you’re currently in good standing.

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@blossom Thank you so much for your kindness and candor. I’m truly grateful for the structured, straightforward plan that you shared with me! You are indeed right that several people out in the world meet their job satisfaction and prosperity – all without the need for engineering classes. I’m actually glad that you mentioned monitoring health as the first priority, because that’s actually what I’ve been focusing on over the course of the past few days. Despite how much I’ve disclosed with my doctor and therapist, I still feel like there’s more that I’m not fully disclosing, but to which I’ll hopefully change over the course of time. One of the potential treatments I’ve been suggested is a wellness program that I can schedule for and hopefully begin soon. I haven’t had the time to research other potential solutions, but I’ve heard successful cases about “life coaches”. But for the issues that I’m experiencing, would you suggest that focusing on “long-term” treatments might be best for my mental health issues?

As for your suggestion with the Dean, that is exactly what I seek on acting over the next few days, especially tomorrow. The Dean I’m interacting with this time around is relatively new, so I’m not sure how knowledgeable he is, but I truly hope that he can shed some light on the options I have for the situation I’m currently in. As for the reality check, it’s interesting that you brought up those points. All of them seem to be huge priorities to which I have put careful thoughts into, and what you mentioned about college still being present for the future is one thought that I haven’t fully thought through. And the other professions that you mentioned that involve some form of engineering – I think that’s one area I’ve had trouble visualizing among other careers that aren’t explicitly termed “engineering”. As for closing the door on engineering: a really difficult thought for me to process and think carefully on, but a possibility that I’m open to.

But you’re definitely right that the university, based on the past offense and the current incident, could have ultimately decided to expel me but decided for suspension instead. It’s a dreadful bullet that I dodged, but I still think it’s important to view this unfortunate experience as a learning opportunity, right?

So, from what I’m understanding from your message, is the following what I should be prioritizing then?

  1. Focusing on my mental health capacity by scheduling appointments with my therapist/psychiatrist
  2. Reviewing my current options with the Dean, along with further affirmation and discussion on the violations I done
  3. Develop a thorough academic plan for graduating with a Bachelors degree
  4. Make the appropriate decisions, based on all the information and options available to me, to take the next step?

@momofsenior1 Well, it’s a pathway that I’ve been carefully thinking about, but the issue is that with this 2nd incident, my parents are truly fearing for future actions I may possibly take upon readmitting back to the university next year. I’ve had issues regarding disclosing and communicating with my parents about academic issues I’ve been facing, along with the trust and respect I’ve lost between them. That much I can certainly recognize and understand, but I have a sinking feeling that with the incidents that have occurred, along with the difficulty with the Chem E curriculum, that they’ve lost confidence in me achieving the engineering degree.

@gearmom Your way of thinking is what’s been on my mind with respect to the circumstance I’m in. The last statement you made is certainly a point I do want to make clear with my parents, but I just don’t know how to explain it to them in a way that helps them understand. I’m very interested to know your thoughts and ideas on how I can do this?

@lookingforward Well, the Plan B that you mention is basically what my parents have in mind for switching to a different university. I told them that my mental health, the academic dilemma, and my need to graduate are points that I want to strictly focus on. But you’re right in that my unethical tendencies have led me to the current situation I’m in. So, considering my disciplinary history with UCSD and using the suspension period as an opportunity for a potential internship or part-time position (and for mental health rehabilitation), what options do you think are the most realistic for my situation?

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I just don’t see how you think you can/should get a degree in engineering if you’re struggling this much. The practice of engineering is more difficult than the study of it. If you haven’t mastered key concepts in five years of school, I don’t think more review is going to help.

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@HailHavoc I would stop torturing yourself. Take a year. Get your mojo back. Get your sleeping back on track. Go exercise. Get a job in something. Study for those four remaining classes and just pass them next year. Then get a job in something that isn’t engineering. IDK Insurance, sales. Something else. After you work for awhile in the new career, you won’t have to ever discuss your college situation or report your GPA. You’ll just put down BS in Chem Engineering UCSD and you’re clean. I mean don’t work as an engineer because you don’t know it well enough but you get some cred for having an engineering degree. The time for you to switch majors was three years ago. At this point just wrap it up. Not everyone has the self discipline to work on their own. You need structure. That’s just the way it is. Finish and then get the structure of a job and enjoy your life.

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OP- a new Dean, an old Dean- this is irrelevant. You are still not facing reality. This Dean gets to decide the terms of engagement for you- you don’t get to shop around for a different decision-maker if this one comes up with a plan that’s not to your liking. You are toying with the fantasy that someone with more experience is going to view your situation differently.

And I’m sorry to tell you that’s not happening. You need to come clean- with your therapist (withholding information from the person trying to make you healthy? Why why why?), the Dean. I get not being fully transparent with your parents-- but allowing them to think that you’re destined for a grad program in chemistry isn’t helping you (or them).

Get to your doctor- now.

Have the meeting with the Dean- your goal is to find a way-- down the road- to be allowed to finish your degree even if it’s one class at a time. If you can’t finish the program in Chem E (and it sounds like that ship may have sailed) figure out a different major- if you take four classes in econ? finance? history? statistics?what’s on your transcript now which could form the basis of another major? Your goal is to pass four more classes and finish college with a Bachelor’s degree.

affirmation? What are you talking about? The Dean is not your best friend and is not there for affirmation. The Dean represents the university in its dealings with you.

Life coach? You aren’t even being honest with your therapist. Why do you think getting one more person involved is going to help you?

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@HailHavoc - I think that @blossom has stated the situation pretty clearly. At this point, the Dean is the one to talk to and that is the person who will be telling you what your academic options are.

Your therapist will help you get through all of this. You made some mistakes and you’ve been making yourself miserable for a long time. It is time to focus on your health and well being now. You will have options and when you are feeling better you will figure this all out.

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I am not a therapist, and neither is anyone else (I don’t think) on this list, and neither is your Dean and while people can throw out opinions the simple truth is UCSD engineering is about as stressful and hard as it gets. You were one of the top of the top to just be accepted in the program, so right now you have a very skewed perception of your value and worth. You made some bad choices that if it wasn’t for the pressure to complete the program you might not have made. The most important thing is your health and the road you take now. In the big picture of your life, whatever you do, the most important thing will not be your job or your degree, it will be your family, your friends, your future significant other, your future children. And whether you are an engineer or work in a restaurant, it can all work out and you can be successful and have a happy life. So just take one step at a time, be honest. Talk to a school counselor, they have been through this before. If you are lucky and your dean helps you work out a plan, great. Honestly work the plan one day at a time. If not, accept it and move on. I know a couple people who left college (another UC) a few credits shy of graduation and went into something totally different and led very happy lives. This too shall pass. Good luck to you.

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Apologies for the lateness in my response. I just returned to the university campus and have been scheduling appointments with my counselor, psychologist, and Dean for preparing a plan and discussing further on my mental health and potential treatments for my issues.

@MaineLonghorn It is as you say, and the fact that I have’t had opportunities to test and apply engineering knowledge to real-life work (via internships or co-op) has me doubtful of my success with engineering overall.

@gearmom I like the suggestions you brought up with my situation, especially with the fact that I had the opportunity to switch majors after my first incident. I don’t think I fully accepted the consideration that maybe engineering just wasn’t for me at the time, and now I’ve come to a second incident later on in life. I think that’s my problem with discipline and structure – both of them are certainly non-existant in my lifestyle.

@blossom I understand what you’re getting at with respect to the decisions made by the Dean, and I apologize for implying that different people (of the Dean status) had any factor in this situation. The sanctions decided upon do make sense to me, especially considering that this isn’t a first-time offense and the severity of the violation. But you’re right about me not being fully objective with the current situation at hand. I’ve had a long history of not getting to the point and being matter-of-fact. I do want to improve on self-disclosure, but I feel like feelings of embarrassment, shame, guilt, and difficulty in being fully honest prevent me from sharing my inner truths. When you add my trouble with being assertive and inability to stand up for myself to that list, that creates hesitance and doesn’t enable me to be brutally honest in expressing my wants and needs with my parents.

But considering the fact that I’m still misreading the reality of my situation (coming to terms with the Dean as an impartial decision-maker and my therapist as someone who serves to help people), what else do you think I should frame my mindset? So that I can be fully honest and straightforward in navigating this whole situation? I feel like I need all the help I can get to set my life straight and grow into a different individual entirely, but don’t know how to do it on a step-by-step basis?

@flmom26 Okay, so from what I understand, speaking further with the Dean on my academic situation, options, and future plans is my task. And my responsibility with my therapist is to seek counseling, reveal my past and current health issues, and to develop appropriate treatment plans for my well-being then. I wish I could be as concise as you are about this whole predicament.

@19parent Thank you very much for your insightful response. You’re definitely correct in that my sense of value and worth is very distorted as of now. And I think I’ve been so obsessed on prioritizing my future job/degree as the utmost important, when there are other things in life that are valued much more. Don’t get me wrong, I really seek to live a happy life and cope with my difficulties, but bad choices have been a true factor that illustrates my character. I truly want to no longer succumb to such negative choices and have my life be based on positive values, such as honesty and integrity, but I have difficulties in demonstrating those value through my actions. So, in essence, what do you think are the most important areas I should discuss with my school counselor? I feel like there’s so much for me to disclose and clarify on, but I don’t know how to articulate them, or even in order (from childhood to current time or vice versa) do I follow when discussing about my mental health?