http://blogs.mprnews.org/oncampus/2012/03/so-is-chemistry-a-marketable-degree-or-not/
What are your thoughts ??
Majoring in Chemistry =/= Majoring in Chemical Engineering
The above article is right on.
also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ghTNpY22OA
The unemployment, infestation of the profession with staffing agencies, and insultingly poor salaries make most iterations of biology/chemistry/biochemistry and related very poor choices for majors especially for someone smart enough for them. They are only useful if you are 100% sure you are going to get into a healthcare professional program after you graduate.
There are a few good companies and good jobs. I work for one. I still get almost weekly calls and emails from staffing agencies peddling their lousy job to the point I don’t answer them when they call. they only end up insulting me with their offers. I personally save as much of my income as possible so I have the option to retrain or retire early rather than end up desperate enough to take another perma-temp job. I would not recommend nor allow anyone in my family to major in science.
Grad school is even worse. The MS is treated as the same as a BS often counted as 2 years experience. The field is glutted with PhD’s forced to work as post-docs or low paid adjunct professors. Universities use grad students and post docs as cheap labor resulting in the pyramid scheme of we have today.
Thank you MSChemist81… Son is going for Chemical Engineering… he’s in his 1st year… his grades were slipping some… and there was concern… he may down it to chemistry… but I think he knows… and from all I have been saying to him / offering articles to read … if he can’t keep up with this… he better go for a whole new Major.
He wants to defend a CHEMISTRY major pretty badly… feeling he won’t have any trouble getting a job afterwards… I’ve explained the outsourcing… the common $15 an hour… companies aren’t offering benefits… he sees me as being Pessimistic … I just want him to be a “Realist” on the prospects, is all…
Tell him to struggle through. I’d rather graduate with a 2.0 in ChemE than a 4.0 in Chem.
The decline in manufacturing in the US has been said to have resulted in “somewhat of a glut” of chemical engineers (http://work.chron.com/pros-cons-chemical-engineering-25356.html).
The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) predicts for 2014-2024 1.8% growth and 10,000 openings in chemical engineer employment, while it predicts 2.6% growth and 22,400 openings in chemist employment (http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_102.htm). However, the BLS states that in 2014 annual mean pay for chemical engineers was $103,590 and annual mean pay for chemists was $79,140 (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000).
By the way, a chemist should master HPLC, LCMS and/or GCMS analytical instruments, because that goes a long way to making him/her desirable in the job market.
The issue, described in the OP’s other thread, is that the student needs to earn a 3.0 GPA by the end of this academic year to renew a scholarship but is currently below that; the current school would be difficult to afford without the scholarship. Lower cost schools that he could transfer to mostly do not have chemical engineering (one does, but the OP’s spouse apparently vetoes it due to being in a poor high crime area).
C grades may get degrees in an academic sense, but needing higher than that to keep the school affordable complicates the situation. (Also, at some schools, higher than that may be needed to enter or stay in the major.)
In that case I’d rather pay for a ChemE degree than get a Chem degree fully paid for by scholarships.
The problem that the OP’s kid is facing is that loss of the scholarship could put the current school out of reach financially (i.e. the scholarship is a “must have” for affordability, not a “nice to have” discount).
If the OP’s son gets the chem degree he is most likely going to either be unemployed or trapped working crap lab temp jobs as in the video posted.
Either take student loans to get the ChemE degree at his current university
Transfer to another cheaper university for the ChemE degree
Don’t get a chemistry or ChemE degree and switch to something like nursing, computers, or accounting
Chemistry isn’t a whole lot easier than ChemE. Some of the lower level courses are but once you get to physical chemistry you are pretty much on par for difficulty with ChemE but you don’t get to PChem until the third year or so.
What the student really needs to do is bring his GPA up to 3.0 to keep the scholarship. But if that does not happen, there do not seem to be any good choices (and student is already taking loans, so more would require cosigner, a bad idea for the financially stretched parents).
Agree that chemistry has poor major specific job prospects, so a chemistry graduate needs to expand the job search to major agnostic jobs, competing with humanities, social studies, and biology majors. Not necessarily easy to get, but may be less limiting than the chemistry job market.
Yes…Poster ucalumnus you have a handle on the situation at hand… I got to look at son’s grades on the College site… he didn’t want me to have access… and there it was a D+ in chemistry!! I don’t know if this was a test or what this was… but he is still determined to get through this… he still wants to do the ChemE…
I think with them DRIVING to this college, IT MAY be affordable… still torn on what to do… cause now that means possibly buying 2 used 4x4’s or them both sharing a 4x4 to get to college with all different hours of classes… this could be a disaster in winter…
We live on back old country roads, have a driveway they’ll never get out of in the winter… its dangerous -have to park somewhere at the top…
All of this has me stressed out… I plan to work more this summer but still this is only an extra $4,500 to bring our income up…
We want to support him… if some year we can’t afford it… does it look bad for the student to take a year off ?? That other school with the high crime rate … I don’t know… he COULD go there… but yeah his dad doesn’t like the thought at all.
I agree with you both… Chemistry is OUT OF THE QUESTION… he has to go all the way or nothing here…
He doesn’t seem interested in anything else… at this point…
His Room mate made mentioned of Physical Chemistry also saying this WILL be the most difficult…
He is facing having to take a summer class for Humanities too… not sure how much that is going to cost us…
I foresee his missing the scholarship this year… We’ve decided we’re not going to co-sign loans. this will have to be on him… to put more time into studying. He hasn’t had a job yet… he’s been in Band and another sport … (different times) … those are less important than his grades if he cant handle it… that’s how we feel anyway.
For poster MSChemist… he started this year out with a devastating breakup (2 weeks before he started college, then threw himself into a rebound, that didn’t last) where we were worried he may be suicidal for a time (he was with this girl since age 14 and she blindsided him with a good friend… they almost made it to 4 YEARS . his 1st love…)…
With all of that said. I can see WHY he had a bad year this year… and his grades suffered… for a time I was more worried he’d not be wallowing in the corner thinking of ending it all -over his grades… He got through that… so here we are (8 months later)…
He has his optimism back now…but IS he being too Optimistic …I am hoping not… I am hoping he CAN do it… Hate to sound like I / We don’ t have faith in own son… but still trying to be realistic…
He Graduated a weighed 3.7 GPA student… 20th in his class in rank…
I keep hearing this term “agnostic _____” , “agnostic Jobs”… what does THIS mean???
I think it means job where they want you to have a degree but don’t really care to much what it is in. Other than sales I don’t know too many such jobs. An internship would be very useful to your son. It may help line him up with a job or at least help him get over the hump of no jobs for people that don’t have experience.
If you want to see the marketability of chemistry degrees tell him to go to the next college career fair and look at the chart as to who wants to meet with which majors. The last one my college had the only company wanting to talk to science majors was Aerotek Fing Scientific a crappy temp agency with the aforementioned $15 an hour crap jobs.
It’s really rough that he had the breakup just when he was about to start college. His college performance in the future may be quite different.
Major agnostic job is one where a college degree is required or preferred, but in any major. Humanities, social studies, biology, and chemistry graduates often have to look for such jobs.
Ok question… on his Federal Student Aid site… … why is it saying that for a ChemE Bachelors degree. is states “Program length” = 6.9 yrs (full time)?? Isn’t it just 4 yrs ??