<p>For what it is worth, I have a niece and a nephew who graduated Brown University & the Univ. of Chicago within the last four years, and I am much more favorably impressed with the nephew's graduation from Chicago than the Fulbright Scholar niece's graduation from Brown. This is nothing more than a Yale vs. Harvard thread. Sometimes I think that Northwestern & Chicago students are too close to the battle to realize that they were just admitted to two of the ten most academically elite institutions in the United States. You both won. If you want to be an actor, director, engineer or journalist go to Northwestern. If you want to be a professor, scholar, or researcher, go to Chicago. If you want to go to a school that demands more of you than any Ivy, then go to Chicago, Northwestern or Swarthmore.</p>
<p>U of C is in such a bad neighborhood I wouldn't go there even if accepted probably. The neighborhood 3 blocks out of campus is SCARY.Better wear a bulletproof vest.</p>
<p>As I wrote, this is little more than a New Haven vs. Cambridge thread.</p>
<p>first off, i love u of chicago, but i have heard that a large percentage of people who enter u of chicago dont graduate from there, they transfer out, is this true and if so, why?</p>
<p>first off, i love u of chicago, but i have heard that a large percentage of people who enter u of chicago dont graduate from there, they transfer out, is this true and if so, why?</p>
<p>wow sorry for double posting</p>
<p>Considering the retention rate is 98% I'd say that's not true at all</p>
<p>This rivalry of UChicago and Northwestern is a very recent history. Even 15 years ago UChicago was a top 5-6 university in the country known for being hard to get into and even harder for getting decent grades. And Northwestern was an easy to get into school that never made top 10, but was gradually gaining reputation especially in sports. For years Northwestern was going up and UChicago struggled - the surrounding neighborhood was REALLY bad and outright dangerous. Chicago folks (and those who grew up in Chicago and moved to other parts of the country) still see the UChicago as a school superior to Northwestern (as it used to be). And this explains a very strong pool of applicants to this school. Others see schools as pretty similar in strength and selectivity (and they are) and NU's surroundings are definitely better. So now NU gets more applicants; and I do not think it is easier to get int.</p>
<p>I always find this thread somewhat ridiculous. Comparing Chicago to Northwestern, as has been implied here before, is like comparing apples to oranges. The schools are very different and attract very different types of students in general. My child had no interest in applying to Northwestern and only wanted to go to Chicago. When we came to Chicago for the interview and first tour of the school, I suggested that she look at Northwestern but she wasn't interested. No, she didn't think that Chicago was a better school than Northwestern, only that it was a better fit for her. I think that both schools are equally excellent, both attract stellar students and both will give you a superlative education, but as has been stated, Northwestern is a more traditional college experience while Chicago has a feel of its own. There admissions criteria have differed as well. Chicago may be less numbers oriented in their decisions than Northwestern and be more about viewing the whole student and their fit into the University. Hence, I know of brilliant students rejected at Chicago and accepted at Northwestern, and students who would never be accepted at Northwestern but accepted and thriving at Chicago. Still, statistics show attending students at both schools scoring about the same overall on standardized tests and class ranks. My child had good SATs and grades, but not ivy league caliber. She was bored in high school and it showed. Still, many schools saw something and she was admitted to places like Chicago, Johns Hopkins and the honors program of the State University. She thrives at Chicago, has great grades and sings in three choirs. So, students who look at both schools should really think about which one is a better fit for them, not which is a better school or harder to get into, because that really is a waste of time when talking about schools of this caliber. One caveat. Chicago is changing a lot these days. Applications are way up,making the school somewhat more numbers driven. The arts and sports are more important with lots of money now pouring into both, so who knows for how long that uniqueness will last.</p>
<p>I don't think we're arguing about who is better, just which school is harder to get into.</p>
<p>Btw, I noticed that many kids with lower stats convince themselves into thinking they will like they're intellectual just so they could apply to UChicago. They then become obsessed with the University because it's their most realistic chance of getting into a top school. They become so obsessed that they develop bitterness for schools with better numbers and extracurricular achievements, nicer people, and better-looking ones too. </p>
<p>People's self-images are contrived...if they convince themselves that the reason they have less stats is because they like learning for the sake of learning even though that's not really the case, they'll feel better about themselves. Applying to UChicago would then validate this image they have of themselves. This is not true for all but for many.</p>
<p>Sanjen, maybe its just me but you are the one that seems bitter. I think its obvious that there is no difference in SAT ranges between the U of C and Northwestern and yet you continue to claim that somehow its easier to get into UChicago and that Northwestern has better "stats". How exactly are you supporting the assertion that kids with lower stats would feel at home at UC? And claiming that Northwestern is a better school because it has "better-looking" people? The real substance of your argument has apparently taken a turn for the worst. Honestly dude, you sound really defensive.</p>
<p>I really don't understand what this acrimony between schools is about. This time it seems to be coming from a Northwestern student. How foolish. As I stated in my earlier post, both admissions departments are different and may be looking for different types of students. Sometimes it may be harder for a student to get into Northwestern and sometimes it is harder to get into Chicago. In this world of college admissions, nothing is certain. I think we can all agree that more people probably apply to Northwestern for each of their spots than Chicago. It has many things that Chicago does not have, i.e engineering and a famous theatre/broadcasting program. Do some people apply to Chicago because they percieve that it might be easier to get into than other schools of its caliber. Perhaps, but who cares. That person probably will not be happy at Chicago if they are not a fit and I have met very few people like that at the school. As the applicant numbers skyrocket at Chicago, I know that many people at the school do fear that this could happen and this is clearly not what Chicago is about. Everyone should chill out and pay attention to more important things. This sort of rivalry is really immature.</p>
<p>Northerwestern and UChicago are both fantastic schools and among the best in the world. As for which one is harder to get into, cold hard statistics state that Northwestern is harder to gain admission into. However that has no reflection on the quality of the schools. End of story.</p>
<p>Students' Score Report Preferences at Time of Testing (ACT):
<a href="http://www.act.org/news/data/07/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.act.org/news/data/07/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf</a> (page 28)
<a href="http://www.act.org/news/data/06/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.act.org/news/data/06/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf</a> (page 28)
<a href="http://www.act.org/news/data/05/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.act.org/news/data/05/pdf/states/Illinois.pdf</a> (page 18)</p>
<p>Looks like the pool that report test scores to Northwestern is actually more self-selecting and competitive. The problem is this is not the actual applicant pool and it's for ACT takers only. But based on this, it seems reasonable to question the validity of the claim that UChicago has stronger pool but cares less about test scores. I think we need more evidence to make any conclusion. On the other hand, I have seen Northwestern admitting relatively low-scoring students too, especially to schools of communications, music, or journalism (relatively low math score). Northwestern has D-1 athletes also. I really don't know how people can claim NU cares more about test scores without any evidence.</p>
<p>At least as far as HPME goes (I know it's not the same as regular admission), it's hardly all about stats (see post #2020):
[quote]
How did I GET an interview compared to you guys, especially because I know the HPME average SAT scores are super high, and mine would just bring it down..a lot....
[/quote]
<p>DUDE, youre so right, hpme is HARDLY ABOUT STATS</p>
<p>Entrance</a> Requirements</p>
<p>/sarcasm</p>
<p>I expected a stronger argument from a Northwestern student.</p>
<p>^actually, those high averages don't necessarily mean they are all about stats. perhaps the scores would become 780, 790, 780 or something like that if the admission is all about stats? at this point, there's no evidence to conclude who cares more about scores or not. so harvard cares more about stats? without any hard evidence, it seems rather self-serving to claim chicago cares less about stats (implying chicago's stats would be skyhigh if they act like others) and claim other schools (in this case, northwestern) have similar stats because they care more about stats. the burden of proof is on you if you make a claim that northwestern applicant pool is weaker.</p>
<p>also, fyi, northwestern's yield hit a record low last year and it was comparable to chicago's. i saw that you were citing chicago's low yield as your main argument. the average SAT difference between the admits and enrollees was 40 points</p>
<p>it's fine Sam Lee. you can cite as many (unhelpful) sources as you wan't but i personally chose uchicago because of its unrivaled strength in math,science, and economics. this argument seems to be getting nowhere and I continue to believe that chicago's applicant body is a bit stronger than northwestern's.</p>
<p>its understandable that you feel the need to defend your college as i do mine. </p>
<p>kthnksbye.</p>
<p>you appear to be quite defensive and bitter while calling sanjen as such. i didn't claim one is better than another. all i was saying is you need to compare tables like the following for Brown in order to make any conclusion: Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures</p>
<p>you can believe in anything you want but i think you should have some rational basis.</p>
<p>im not bitter at all and im sorry if i come off as such. all im saying is that either way students are gonna believe that their college is better than any other college because they have a special bond with their institution. im just not gonna take part in this discussion anymore but i dont hold it against anyone that continues. kthnksbye</p>