Chicago v. Northwestern v. Williams

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
1

<p>Hey guys! I'm new to being a member, but I've been ghosting here for a while. I just want to ask for your opinion on how I should rank these three schools on my board of interest.</p>

<p>A little about myself: I'm a Korean born in America so I act pretty similar to my Caucasian friends. I dress in a preppy manner and I like to play football and basketball recreationally. I also enjoy playing guitar. While there have been nights in high school where I've stayed up all night, I'm not too interested in wasting my college years away studying or composing essays. I would like to mature socially and am interested in a supportive, outgoing student body. A good friend of mine has already been admitted to Northwestern and I may room with him if I attend. I'm interested in majoring in either Poli-Sci or Economics. I don't drink/smoke/abuse, but I may learn to casually drink over the summer so I fit in better (probably not). Finally, name recognition is pretty important to me (my sister went to Harvard and several relatives went to UPenn/Duke) because of the opportunities I see that it affords in acquiring a job/going to graduate school.</p>

<p>I visited all three schools - these are my impressions:</p>

<p>Northwestern: Liked the student center alot...am a fan of football/basketball so I'd love to cheer on the wildcats and go to a school where the teams don't suck...went on a great sunny day, but am afraid of the cold (I really want to be warm as much as I can be so the "Windy City" thing is pretty off putting)...the students seemed to be relaxing quite a bit and playing frisbee or just hanging out (which is great)...my tour guide was able to quite a bit with his free time which I'd also like to do.</p>

<p>Williams: The campus is not as nice as either Midwestern school...I felt like the layout was a bit fragmented and didn't quite form clear boundaries for where the school ends and where the town begins (didn't like that)...loved the idea of tutorials and extra help (which I will make use of lol)...everyone seemed to love the tour guide which made me feel like the community was like a family (or maybe because he was such a great guy)...the location is awful, there's nothing to do for miles (how often do people go to boston/cambridge?)...the dorm rooms seemed really small...the student population looked white/athletic/preppy (does a clumsy asian with asthma fit in if he's not a varsity letter athlete?)...loved the sense of humor and quirkyness I felt (even in the acceptance folder!).</p>

<p>Chicago: Awe-inspiring the nobel laureate numbers...my dad went there for 2 years and is very proud of his school, he would love to see me go there...I very much liked the gothic vine look...there was a cute koi pond that made me smile...the tour guide (and those I asked) had only one extracurricular activity (is this because of lack of time or great involvement?)...the entire place had a very dark and serious tone about it...I'm not sure if that's me (I'm very peppy and energetic)...the people dressed in a emo/punk way (which usually says something about the person dressing that way...but I don't want to stereotype)...the name recognition is very strong...I believe that if I survive I will mature greatly, but I'm afraid of the expense (happiness, ease of mind, social life, social growth?) - I realize that I'm not someone who wants to miss out on the good social moments in life outside of classrooms and books.</p>

<p>THANKS SO MUCH FOR READING ALL THIS AND REPLYING!</p>

2

<p>Being Asian bears great responsibility in respecting one’s elders.</p>

<p>Go to University of Chicago, that way you have the best of all worlds.</p>

<p>I attend Williams, but I understand Asians as I have had them as exchange students while in high school. By the way, my father attended UC.</p>

<p>Williams is a great liberal arts institution, but the cache that Asians attach to Gucchi and such brands, with Williams College, it does not garner the sounding prestige factor as it would with someone like myself with regards Williams College, for being an Anglo-Saxon, I am apprised of its peculiar reputation. We are proud of Williams’ heritage and its great academic traditions.</p>

<p>Remember to adhere to your culture and your instincts. This is what serves you best and in turn your forefathers.</p>

<p>Whatever you choose, be the best that you can be.</p>

3

<p>HorseRadish,
Your confident and self-assured tone in describing the blanket characteristics of all Asians reinforces the fact that simplicity of mind and the tendency to put their mouth before their mind are the hallmarks of close-minded bigotry and racism. </p>

<p>While I’m sure you did not intend to offend through your post, I find that to claim to know an entire ethnicity – not even an entire nationality – is an exercise in self-deceit. Your antiquated use of terms such as “Anglo-Saxon” also conjure unpleasant and emotionally charged mental images of White Pride revolutions, in your insistence on differentiating whites as an entirely separate-thinking group. In your post, you do a disservice not only to Asians, but to your own race, in simplifying the myriad and complex motivations, histories, and values of each individual. I don’t believe that my argument is merely a case of political correctness gone too far; rather, I think that you should closely examine how your simple views have colored your perspective on people.</p>

<p>As a senior at Harvard College, I take particular offense to your suggestion that I – as an Asian – would attend a school to appease my elders and to satisfy my lust for brand names. I attend Harvard for its excellent and unsurpassed government program, and also for the rich networks that I have made while a student here. Both of these characteristics, in addition to its long history, are perhaps what lend the school its “brand-name” status. However, every Asian I know at this school is driven, unique, fails to conform to your stereotype, and is marked for success after graduation. I’m confident that they’ll even be able to afford Gucci at their whim – something with which I’m sure you can’t identify, as you’re unable to even spell it correctly.</p>

<p>Though you claim to have an understanding of Asians, your wholesale assumptions about every Asian belie your true ignorance. I would never, even at the blindly confident age of 22, assume that a certain characteristic applies to every individual in an ethnicity. </p>

<p>But then again, I guess that’s what my brand-name education has given me – a good sense of reality.</p>

4

<p>brokenairguitar - I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that horseradish’s views are his alone and are not representative of Williams students or alumni. I’m an alum and a parent of a current student.</p>

<p>A couple of thoughts on your enviable choice. First, you said you don’t like being cold. I’m afraid all three of those choices are going to pose a similar problem for you. At Williams, you would probably have more opportunity to engage in winter sports, if those interest you.</p>

<p>You also said that the Williams campus is not as nice as the other two. I know many people who think Williams has one of the most beautiful campuses anywhere. It’s a matter of personal preference. I can’t argue with your impression.</p>

<p>Do you have any preference regarding fraternities? Williams doesn’t have them. I believe the other two do. That’s a significant difference for some people.</p>

<p>As for how often students get into Boston, my freshman son went twice first semester – once for a concert and once to visit his sister. I really don’t know what’s typical. </p>

<p>You noted that the dorm rooms seemed rather small. I haven’t seen the dorm rooms at either UC or Northwestern, but I would note that many (most?) freshmen at Williams get singles, if they want them, which I understand is not the case at many other schools. The singles are indeed pretty small, but they’re singles.</p>

<p>As for the student population looking “white/athletic/preppy,” that visual description probably does fit a lot of kids, but according to the school’s website, 29% of the student body is “U.S. minority” and 7% is international. I believe those percentages are even higher for this year’s freshman class. [Williams</a> College :: About Williams - Fast Facts November 2008](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/home/fast_facts/]Williams”>http://www.williams.edu/home/fast_facts/) There are lots of non-athletes there, probably about half the class, I think.</p>

<p>As for cheering on “teams that don’t suck,” Williams has opportunities to do that. My son has been to the games of lots of his friends, and they’ve gone to his. The teams are generally pretty good. </p>

<p>Other differences to ponder are the different calendars of the schools. Williams is on the semester system with a month-long winter study between semesters. Aren’t both UC and Northwestern on a quarter system? Again, it’s a matter of personal preference which you like better, but it’s something to think about.</p>

<p>Best of luck in making your choice.</p>

5

<p>There was no harm intended, though an attempt to persuade in his evaluation to consider Williams was my original intent. Gucchi was a deliberate misspelling in that I have a strong distaste, not for the product, but for the cultural manners which betrays the emphasis on branding rather than what is in the individual’s best interest.</p>

<p>I have personally experienced the agony of young Asians, when faced with a decision, where in many cases they conform to perceived branding, particularly with parents. When one considers the strength of conformity within the cultural norms of a given people, one merely wishes to help in motivating them to consider those conforming attitudes and what is best for all concerned.</p>

<p>You appear to have great umbrage and clearly have surprised me with your angry tone. When did the term Anglo-Saxon become racist for you, or did you learn this attitude from the great distaste for all things western? Why you even like “Gucchi” Bags, and other numerous western brands, including the branded images that HYP and Stanford connotes within the immediate perceptions that the mind conjures.</p>

<p>This does not suggest in any manner that Harvard can be a great school, but that one tends to overlook great colleges because of perceived imagery associated with it.</p>

<p>I was merely making a claim with HUMOR for Williams in an attempt to motivate this person, and any other attempt to create irrational hate through the use of hasty generalization, ad hominems, missing the point and circular reasoning merely confirms to me that you have read into this discussion far beyond the scope of what was intended and stated.</p>

<p>I wish you veritas 09 a pleasant day and a happy graduation with your “Harvard” parchment.</p>

6

<p>Horseradish - Thank you for taking the time to read my post and your attempt to advise me, but I hope that you stop making such generalizing remarks about my culture and my family. Both my parents graduated from universities in America and have graduate and professional degrees in America. I think I am justified in feeling rubbed the wrong way by your insensitive statements - no matter what you claim your intentions are. Please refrain from aggravating those who are truly trying to help me or learn more about these three schools.</p>

<p>nceph - This post was extraordinarily helpful. I did not consider many of the things that you pointed out and I will definitely look at Williams with a closer eye. After speaking with my mother, she said that Williams had a beautiful campus and is surprised I didn’t like it, so maybe I should take a second look. Thank you very much.</p>

7

<p>brokenairguitar–As a parent of an in-coming Williams freshman who knows people in the political science/economics departments at all three schools, I’d offer the following considerations–
1-Both N’western and UC are major research universities with more grad students than undergrads and faculty members who are selected and rewarded based on their ability to do world class research. The Williams faculty are expected to publish and do, but the selection and promotion processes for faculty place more of an emphasis on undergrad teaching–People look for jobs there because that’s what they want to do
2–Williams has very good name recognition among graduate/law/ business schools and regularly gets ranked as one of the top one or two liberal arts colleges in the country–My son’s an aspiring physics major, and the modal destination of such seems to be the PhD program at MIT (Of course, you could always get a PhD at UC or N’western)
3–Williams athletic teams don’t suck–the New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) is one of the strongest DIII conferences in the country(check the national rankings in the sports you like to watch), and Williams regularly performs very strongly–As at most smaller schools, higher fraction of student body participates in varsity sports; but many athletes (my faculty friends there exempt the so-called “helmet sports”) have same grades/SAT scores as anybody else. The athletes live with everybody else and you go to the games to cheer on your friends.
4-If there are other things you’d rather do, there are lots of opportunities for music/art, etc–If you really want a big city, then Chicago wins hands down, but there are plenty of opportunities at Williams
Nice choice to have and you really can’t go wrong, but you just need to decide the kind of setting you want.</p>

8

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<p>HorseRadish,
Instead of blaming others for reading into it too far, you may look into your humor skills.</p>

9

<p>Hi brokenairguitar,</p>

<p>First, you can’t really go wrong with any of the schools, as all three are top notch. Anyhow, here are my few cents on why Williams…being a newly minted alum working in Chicago. I also happen to be Asian, so I’ll comment on the whole prestige thingamajiggy as well.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Majors: It’s really easy to double major at Williams should you find yourself pursuing both poli sci and econ. Williams also offers a political economy major which is pretty popular. I probably spent more time in econ prof sessions than others, so I can attest to how great professors are with making sure students learn the material. I don’t know about NW or UChicago, but my friends who went to larger universities sometimes had TAs who didn’t have excellent command of the English language teaching econ. That won’t happen at Williams. </p></li>
<li><p>Prestige: Like others have said, Williams has a cachet in certain circles but isn’t as mainstream as the Ivy League. Indeed, if you think you will get ****ed off every single time someone says, 'Oh, you must mean Williams & Mary/Roger Williams/William Paterson" then well…sorry to say, but Williams takes the cake with regard to the name confusion game. Indeed, my purple and gold W Williams cap gets confused for the University of Washington all the time in Chicago.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>As for my decision way back when, I chose Williams over UPenn, which oddly enough has a similar name confusion issue with Penn State. </p>

<p>As for prestige within Asian circles, well…those who know, know that it’s among the best. (I’ve actually been pleasantly surprised a few times) Those who don’t kind of get the hint once I start spreading the purple and gold gospel about the financial aid, the small class sizes, the Williams in Oxford Programme, the internship opps…haha.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Weather: There will likely be snow on the ground right up until spring break. (granted Williams is one of a few schools that gets 2 weeks for spring break, so it’s usually all melted by the time students get back…well, usually haha). In my limited experience with Chicago winters, I’d say that Williams gets much more snow, while Chicago’s wind chill is far more severe. </p></li>
<li><p>Location: It’s probably been hammered home, but if you must have a city nearby, then Williamstown probably isn’t for you. I had never lived in a rural area and figured that it’d be a nice to experience living life in a bucolic area before moving onto a city post-graduation. </p></li>
<li><p>Jobs/Internships: Got a paid internship each summer and a job after graduation through the career center. Granted, it wasn’t easy all the time, but if you’re motivated, it’s not too bad. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

10

<p>brokeng, my son graduated from Williams in 07. He really enjoyed his time there and continued to benefit from the experience first in job placement and now, in graduate school admissions. Like renja, he liked the idea of a rural, insular campus. He figured he had the rest of his life to live and work in a city. He was involved in snow sports (which he took up after attending Williams) and looked forward to snow-time, especially winter study.</p>

<p>Like nceph’s son, he would get to Boston or New York once or twice a term – either for a social visit or for a school sponsored event; however, Williams is not particularly convenient to either place so that shouldn’t be a determining factor.</p>

<p>If you intend to live and work in the Northeast, then you will find Williams has good name recognition. Once you get out of the Northeast, less so; however, big firms and graduate schools know and appreciate Williams.</p>

<p>He had a single room all four years and liked the entry concept so much that he became a JA. “His” firstyears are graduating this year. Many of them became JA’s as well.</p>

<p>But, to my son, the best part about Williams is the friends that he made – while he was there and now as part of the Williams network. These are warm, friendly, outgoing, talented kids – who are doing great things all over the world. Priceless!</p>