<p>The costs are just too great Soy McVale. To most people an additional 132k is a lot of money. It would take many more years to pay it off than the costs instate at Michigan. It’s just not worth it in my opinion for a marginally better undergraduate education.</p>
<p>I have to agree with rjkofnovi on the cost factor. Upon reading your message about Chicago’s finally accepting you, ab, I felt excited and happy for you–and looked forward to see you attend. Now that you’ve elaborated on the details, especially the cost differential between the two, I’d feel wrong telling you unilaterally to pick Chicago. Ultimately, of course, where spend your undergraduate days is a decision only you can fairly make for yourself. I want, trying to help, to repeat, “Chicago!” like I did in earlier posts. But if cost is any kind of burden on you and your family–and from what you’ve written, it is–then such a cry isn’t right.</p>
<p>College choice feels like a subjective, conflicted, emotional process. I know the desire to find a “special” school; somewhere that feels, on some indescribable level as well as more quantifiably, like the perfect place to be. I thought almost until the last minute of searching that I’d never find it, but for me, Chicago is that school. But if it were a few thousand dollars more expensive (and the aid we got really is on the brink of impossibility), I’d have let it go. I’d have let myself be happy and productive somewhere less glorified in my mind. Even now, with the cost as sensitive as it is, I sometimes wonder if the choice is worth it.</p>
<p>You have a choice between two great, challenging schools, and you’ve acknowledged that. You’ve proven to us on CC that you have the maturity and understanding of yourself to make the very best of either place. And as others have said: depending on what field you choose, there’s always graduate school. Remember that it may incur even more expenses, ones that your parents may not feel as obligated (or be as able) to meet. Whatever you do, trust yourself, but don’t forget the heavy reality of debt and cost. Is the ideal of a learning community like that at Chicago (admittedly an enticing and invigorating one) worth so many thousands of dollars more?</p>
<p>If you think it is, then it is. Economics of the free market has told us that a thing has value only insofar as a person is willing to give it. People say college is what you make of it; whatever you give, you find. Chicago promises to offer us things we dream of without much searching. It looks like that life is laid out. But if you work and look for it (the academic rigor, the intelligent, passionate people, the teachers), couldn’t the same life be found at Michigan? It depends on how much of it you want, and how easily.</p>
<p>Good luck, and good wishes. Keep thinking. =)</p>
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<p>^Wait … rjkofnovi … do you go to Michigan?</p>
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<p>That’s what I’ve heard so many times as true … and other times as false. Some people say that you can make your education as anything you want it to be no matter where you are … you can find success no matter where you go as long as you make the most out of it. Then there are other people who say that the real world is dominated by people who care about THE name and that’s where you’ll end up in the real world’s totem pole. </p>
<p>But I’ve always thought about the fact that grad school is more important than undergrad … I can always have a shot 4 years from now, right? or not…</p>
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<p>^My parents have told me that they can afford the 132k more over 4 years but nothing else. But personally I can’t justify how Chicago is really worth 132k more than Michigan. I’m totally losing sleep over this … I want the Chicago education, but Michigan’s education sounds so much more … cost-effective.</p>
<p>It’s so hard to make a decision … people on this site present great arguments that let me look both ways. Then there are my parents … my mom wants me to save the money for grad school or a “rainy day” and to go to Michigan but my dad insists on Chicago because he says that my grad school or MBA will be paid for by the big-name company I end up working for. Then there’s someone I know who says the same thing, and she said she knows a UMich Ross Business School prof who tells her that Chicago is more worthwhile than Michigan. </p>
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<p>Ann Arbor is VERY diverse and interesting. I’ve been there. Trust me, it’s diverse. Some say that there’s even reverse discrimination on Michigan’s campus, but I don’t know much about that so I won’t go much into it. There’s always something going around on Ann Arbor, and that’s what makes the city so interesting. It’s lively and bustling, full of energy.</p>
<p>That said, since both places are great, the place isn’t much of an issue, other than the fact that Chicago is 250 miles away from home, and that fact I like.</p>
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<p>I’ve tried rationalizing the Chicago education vs. Michigan education over and over again the past few days. Not everyone gets to go to Chicago and experience a #1 econ education, and thousands of people graduate from Michigan each year. But then again Michigan’s education is already very good and it costs much less. But does graduating from Michigan mean I’ll get fewer opportunities in terms of internships or work in the real world compared to Chicago? Michigan does have global reach, but Chicago seems to have more, but is that “more” worth 132k more? Will I get that back or will I (aka my parents) simply lose that 132k?</p>
<p>Then the people … we know that people at Chicago are smart. I will fit better, but will I fail to do well amidst more competition (then again Chicago is more like an educational journey). I’ll probably stand out more at Michigan academically … but will I fit in better? Will I find my niche (there are THOUSANDS of people there!)? People say I will, some say I won’t. </p>
<p>I feel like my head’s about to explode. Seriously.</p>
<p>When I saw this thread, I nearly fell off my chair. I’m in (almost) exactly the same situation as you, ab. Similar to your predicament, I need to decide between UChicago and UCSD. I have until June 30th to pick between the two of them and I am going mad with frustration. UCSD is far cheaper for me just as Michigan is for you, and I can’t come up with a reason why I should attend Chicago over SD, in terms of cost. I too am uncertain if I should go into engineering or if I should go into physics (which I would do if I decided on Chicago.)</p>
<p>Since we are in similar situations, let me tell you my thoughts on the matter. I spent a vast amount of time contacting many professors in both universities and some employers near my region to ask them a few questions about colleges, etc. Suffice to say, the general response I received was that the majority of people who look at your resume (ie. employers) don’t really look too deeply where you did your undergraduate education, if it’s within the top 30-35 universities. In other words, the distinction between a UChicago and Michigan student would be very small. Many of them told me that there is a much greater emphasis in the professional level on graduate school, rather than undergraduate. Thus, it becomes more of a question of cost rather than prestige.</p>
<p>Like you, I’m struggling with my options. Even though UChicago’s cost is astronomical, I too am uncertain if I’m doing the right thing in leaning on UCSD. Anyway, best of luck with your decision.</p>
<p>-flux</p>
<p>^That’s amazing how we’re both in the same position … but you say that you’re in Chicago … wouldn’t you be paying OOS tuition for UCSD? Wouldn’t that come out about the same as Chicago? You definitely should go to Chicago if you’re paying OOS for UCSD, depending on how strongly engineering appeals to you (it’s not that strong for me). </p>
<p>But really I’m stuck with the undergrad value thing … I know the real world considers grad school more important and I do want to go to grad school. But some people say that my future employer will pay for grad school … but with most companies trimming their expenditures, how many employers will want to pay for their employees’ grad school fees?</p>
<p>It all depends what is meant by “grad school.” Some businesses will help pay for grad school or professional school in specific areas (nephew’s employer paying for MA at Columbia in a specific program). Most top Ph.D. programs fully fund their grad students requiring no or little out-of-pocket costs for the student (as long as the student is wiling to live like, well, a student). Everyone of S1’s friends who are off to grad (not professional) school this fall are fully funded.</p>
<p>I can see where idad is coming from. It really depends on the kind of grad school or professional school. Most PhD programs give out extremely generous financial aid. I want to get a PhD, which fully funds my professional school education. However, if you are heading to med school, business school, you can hardly receive financial aid (unless you are very bright or receive funding from employers, etc).</p>
<p>“Michigan is better academically than Virginia.”</p>
<p>For someone so obsessed with the rankings like you, you need to learn your place in the rankings and stop whining. </p>
<p>“in my opinion for a marginally better undergraduate education.”</p>
<p>No, you can’t compare the undergrad education at huge public school like UMich to the undergrad education at a private school like the University of Chicago. </p>
<p>Take rjkofnovi’s advice with a grain of salt, he’s bitter Michigan is not ranked higher in the US News Rankings (I don’t understand his obsession with the rankings) and loves to bash on Virginia for it. </p>
<p>Go to Chicago esp. if your parents can afford it, you’ll always have the “what if I had gone to Chicago” when you’re trying to register for your 500 person econ class at Michigan.</p>
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<p>Haha, my location is just misleading. I am a California resident. I put Chicago because I thought I would be going there a week ago but I am seriously reconsidering.</p>
<p>I seriously leaning on decline … </p>
<p>I wrote up two letters explaining each of my decision … </p>
<p>I liked the letter explaining why I’m declining their offer of admission more … it simply sounds more … rational imo … makes sense</p>
<p>rjkofnovi, I have to say, you know that you are the only person from a UM perspective on this thread. I think there is a reason why the OP place a thread on U of C forum, it is because he wants the U of C student’s perspective. You had your chance on UM’s thread so I think it was unnecessary that you go onto U of C thread and start condemning the U of C student’s opinion. I wondering if UM student’s act like you, going to other places just to condemn them. </p>
<p>As for ab2013, if you want to go to econ, enjoy your decision but just know, I hope you just don’t regret what ever decision you made.</p>
<p>“Michigan is better academically than Virginia.”</p>
<p>I also have to say that you really should rethink that, because I’m pretty sure that isn’t always true. And if you count on ranking so much, it’s interesting to know that Virginia is higher in undergrad level.</p>
<p>Also I have to say: ok so your grad school matters, hmmm that also creates the question, which school gets you into a better graduate school? Well lets see, UM known for its enormous population. U of C is known for its academic intelligence and thought. U of C students are academically challenged greatly. Their students know the value of education. At UM ehh, that is somewhat becomes debatable because some of the population are not as “academical smart” and creative as U of C’s</p>
<p>Let’s not get carried away here. There are plenty of very smart folks at Virginia, Michigan, and Chicago. If one simply looks at SAT scores there are about 6500 students at Michigan with SAT Verbal scores ranging from about 700 - 800, and math from about 750 - 800. That is about 1500 more than the entire Chicago student body. At Virginia it would be about 3700. So there are plenty of “smart” people to hang around with. The difference is in the philosophies and undergraduate culture of the schools. Any of these schools can provide the foundation to get into any grad or professional program one wants. I personally prefer the education Chicago provides, but that is all it is, a preference.</p>
<p>When it comes to grad school, one of the most common misconception is that where you go for undergrad does not matter. The fact is, and this is the fact, that where you go for undergrad does and I repeat does matter. This was one of the reasons why I turned down UMich in the first place, considering I have to spend the same amount of money. (One of my neighbors’ niece works for the grad school admissions office at Columbia.)</p>
<p>This is why you will never see a med school student who is an alum of the Ursinus College in Pennsylvania.</p>
<p>To the OP, I do not think you should worry about financing for your grad school education if you are heading into some sort of PhD programs, since they often meet 100% of your expenses. If you are heading to business school, med school or other types of professional programs. I would then boil your choice down to money. I do not know much about engineering grad school financial aid though.</p>
<p>I would also like to comment on the sport scene. Being in Division III isn’t a bad thing either. It means more amateur athletes like me can now participate in intercollegiate sport!</p>
<p>“The fact is, and this is the fact, that where you go for undergrad does and I repeat does matter.”</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more. Especially for law school, it matters a great deal.</p>
<p>Really. I know of several people who are in top grad schools, in top programs, who attended what many would call third tier universities. One is not precluded from getting into a top grad school by going to just about any school, and one is not guaranteed a place simply by attending a top private school. (I am not talking about law schools, etc. since I don’t know much about that world, but in the humanities, social sciences, and the physical and natural sciences it is what one does, and what one’s professors say in their recommendations and phone calls that really matter.) If there is an advantage it is for the more marginal student. A marginal Western Michigan University student will not have the same edge as a marginal U of C student. And further, UMichigan is as well respected as any school. No other school will confer any meaningful advantage for grad school over Michigan.</p>
<p>Woah there, there are other factors you have to consider, how well can your undergrad teach you. I mean look at this, U of C’s undergrad econ is amazing. And with this you are prepared to go to any grad school with edge on other students if you work hard at U of C. Also education is probably the key to your future. If you blow off your undergrad year thinking that ok I go to a reputable university, no your not going to succeed in life. U of C students are unique because they know that education is important. They put education before parties. A good population (not all) but in that 25000 or so at UM, there are a huge group that party (this doesn’t mean that you will become one of them) but just note that U of C students are pretty serious about work. U of C is similar to Caltech in a way. Both students care about academics and succeeding in life more so than parties. Also your undergrad does matter for grad school, I mean UM only is 7% higher than the national average in students accepted to medical school which is 45% in 2008. Impressive, ehhh not really when you count that Rice University has a 90%, Duke university has a 85%, Case western University has a 74% and JHU has a 85%. U of C is ranked amongst the top ten schools nationally for medical school matriculate’s as a
function of undergraduate enrollment size. It just shows you that the undergrad school does matter. (also note that pre-med at U of C is quite small)</p>
<p>Thanks to those who have given me advice. You guys have been tremendously helpful … so helpful that it almost feels like I’m drowning in a sea of info at times (but that’s a good thing!). </p>
<p>If you guys are curious as to where I end up next fall, pay attention to my location. It will revert back to the calculus joke followed by (XXXXXXX '13), where XXXXXXX is the school that I have chosen to attend. The news should be posted by Monday afternoon at the latest. </p>
<p>Good luck to other recent admits! We’re all in this together (though this thread is almost completely about me :))!</p>
<p>Virtually every single department at Michigan is rated higher than UVA. That’s a plain fact. It’s not UVA bashing, it’s just reminding others than Michigan is a better overall academic school. Perhaps if I attended UVA I might consider attending U-C more too because it is substantially better academically.</p>