<p>OK ... I'm so undecided right now that I'm gonna put out this thread where people are gonna discuss the strengths and weaknesses of both schools. As you may know, I was pulled off the waitlist last Friday, and I need help deciding and I need to know soon. </p>
<p>This is what I have so far: </p>
<p>Michigan:
- Public school, much larger than Chicago
- Great engineering program means more flexibility and choice if I switch majors (+)
- Good but not great econ and math program
- Big Ten atmosphere + party scene = perfect for socializing, but not so great for school work and fit-wise (not a party person, never will be)
- I've done orientation here, met people, chosen classes, and received my housing info ... I'm ready for the fall term (+)
- I'll run into old people from high school and meet people mainly from in-state
- It's in Michigan ... same old same old, I've lived here my entire life, isn't it time for some CHANGE?
- A big bang for the buck ($22k/yr) with Michigan state govt "rebate" money ($4k via Promise) (+)
- Dorms: Bursleys sucks!! </p>
<p>Chicago
- Private school, much smaller than Michigan (+)
- No engineering program
- Best econ program in the USA and great math program (+)
- So dedicated to academics, and quirky atmosphere means better fit (+)
- I haven't even sent in my enrollment deposit (which is why I'm here) and all I can do is make friends on Facebook, and I still have yet to make my Facebook account (I admit it, with technology, I'm as ancient as a dinosaur)
- I'll have a brand new start ... people come from all over the country and world (+)
- It's in a different state not terribly far away from home ... new place means new things to discover. (+)
- Costs A LOT ($55k+/yr) and little if any money
- Better dorms than Michigan (+)</p>
<p>Chicago vs. Michigan: 6 - 3 ( <-- Chicago is winning )</p>
<p>OK … I’m so undecided right now that I’m gonna put out this thread where people are gonna discuss the strengths and weaknesses of both schools. As you may know, I was pulled off the waitlist last Friday, and I need help deciding and I need to know soon. </p>
<p>This is what I have so far: </p>
<p>Michigan:
Public school, much larger than Chicago
Great engineering program means more flexibility and choice if I switch majors (+)
Good but not great econ and math program
Big Ten atmosphere + party scene = perfect for socializing, but not so great for school work and fit-wise (not a party person, never will be)
I’ve done orientation here, met people, chosen classes, and received my housing info … I’m ready for the fall term (+)
I’ll run into old people from high school and meet people mainly from in-state
It’s in Michigan … same old same old, I’ve lived here my entire life, isn’t it time for some CHANGE?
A big bang for the buck ($22k/yr) with Michigan state govt “rebate” money ($4k via Promise) (+)
Dorms: Bursleys sucks!! </p>
<p>Chicago
Private school, much smaller than Michigan (+)
No engineering program
Best econ program in the USA and great math program (+)
U of C offers Applied Math + BS Math specializing in Econ
So dedicated to academics, and quirky atmosphere means better fit (+)
I haven’t even sent in my enrollment deposit (which is why I’m here) and all I can do is make friends on Facebook, and I still have yet to make my Facebook account (I admit it, with technology, I’m as ancient as a dinosaur)
I’ll have a brand new start … people come from all over the country and world (+)
It’s in a different state not terribly far away from home … new place means new things to discover. (+)
<p>AB: Everyone here knows how much you love Chicago. I just want to remind you that Michican is a great university, too. People come there from all over the country and the world, too. Not as many, percentage-wise, as at Chicago, but maybe more in absolute numbers. And, while you may run into your high school classmates from time to time, it’s a big enough place that you really don’t have to spend time with anyone you don’t want to. </p>
<p>Now, here’s the important part: $55K-$22K = $33K x 4 = $132,000. That’s law school, or an MBA (plus some). Unless you have some way to get that $132,000 without borrowing (most of it), and without impoverishing your parents or forcing your sibilings into child labor, it’s really hard to make an argument that Chicago’s (moderately) nicer dorms and math department, plus the psychic benefits of being in a more sedate student body and moving a couple hundred miles farther away from home, are worth that much money.</p>
<p>Kids from Michigan have been reinventing themselves at the University of Michigan since it opened its doors. Don’t think that going there makes you stuck. There’s probably close to a University of Chicago’s-worth of dedicated, intellectual students at Michigan, and if that’s the kind of person you want to be, you won’t have any trouble finding them.</p>
<p>(On the other hand, you’re thinking of maybe transferring INTO engineering? That seems unlikely, and costly, even if you can do it. It’s a lot easier to transfer OUT of engineering. Lots of people do that!)</p>
<p>OTOH, consider whether you can complete a degree at UMich in four years. We know someone who was a math/physics double major, was told one thing about courses freshman year, got to junior year and courses have been closed, some things he was told would double count don’t, etc. He’s looking at at least one extra semester now. The advising and impacted course issues were enough to make S1 decide to drop it from his list.</p>
<p>True, very very true. But I can’t really pick a school based on how much I love it … more how much it will work for me (how much I can get out of it etc) </p>
<p>
At Michigan, I will definitely be doing engineering, but I’m not entirely 100% on engineering (split in between econ/math) because I know that I don’t have everything that it takes to be a great engineering (but I can do it) … econ/math seems to be a better fit for me in terms of how compatible it will be with my brain. </p>
<p>Also Michigan, I’m looking at EGL (my adviser there knows this too), which is a honors program that will take 5 years to complete and will give me both bachelors and a masters degree in engineering. The bang for the buck is huge here … </p>
<p>But Chicago also offers a joint degree in math … where I can get both bachelors and masters degrees in math, but the problem is (I’m assuming) that you need to be pretty good at what you do (though I have more confidence in myself in math than in physics/engineering).</p>
<p>You should definitely try to get some info on the joint-degree math program at Chicago if it is figuring heavily in your thinking. I have seen threads on it here in the past, and my impression is that it is next-to-impossible to complete. Only a few students per year do, and maybe not even that many. On the other hand, I don’t know what it’s good for, other than bragging rights. The people who do it seem to be headed towards PhD programs anyways, and maybe it helps them get in but I don’t know that it shortens the path at all. And lots of Chicago math majors seem to get into good PhD programs or get good math-major jobs without the added MA.</p>
<p>What does “I will definitely be doing engineering, but I’m not entirely 100% on engineering” mean?</p>
<p>Hmm, I honestly think that at this point, money is going to be a HUGE part of your decision. Chicago will cost you twice as much as Michigan, and if you do indeed want to do engineering, Chicago obviously doesn’t offer that…but you seem iffy on the engineering thing, so I don’t know. Just keep in mind that as much as you love Chicago, you also don’t want to have to sell your soul to Sally Mae. In your position, I would go to Michigan purely because of finances. But realize that if you do end up choosing Chicago, that you’ll be facing some long, difficult times paying off your debt.</p>
<p>It means that I signed up for engineering at Michigan, but I’m not entirely sure about this choice because I’m not particularly good at things related to engineering, like physics and hands-on stuff. Econ and math seem more compatible with my brain, because it probably involves less visualizing stuff than engineering does. I did not sign up for Econ at Michigan because (a) it’s not UC quality and (b) a good number of people here on CC have complained about the teaching quality of Econ at UM (in fact, one of my orientation leaders said that he had to drop Econ 401 at Michigan), whereas Engineering at UM is hands-down amazing. </p>
<p>^erika27: </p>
<p>My parents have said that they’re more than willing to pay for my Michigan undergrad tuition (everything), but when it came to Chicago, they were iffy about it, because it’s definitely a ton of money. They said that they can pay for it, but they’re not entirely willing to do so, because it’s such a hefty investment. </p>
<p>Personally, I’m iffy about asking my parents to shell out $33k more per year for a Chicago education ($132k more over 4 years, assuming that I do finish in 4 years) … which is more than what some people earn out there. I know that my parents worked hard for that money, and I feel that I have no right to ask them to dump it all on my undergrad education (they can use it for other things). Also, I have a sister who is matriculating to college in 2 years, and it would be unfair to place more burden on my parents (as some tell me, at this point in time, my parents won’t get any younger).</p>
<p>But I truly love Chicago, and I really don’t feel good about declining their offer of admission, however “late” it may be. It is my dream school (the other one was Brown, but that dream completely died a few months ago), and I hate to let go of it.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Michigan really can be a dream school, too. It has incredible faculty and resources.</p></li>
<li><p>I think most people would choose Michigan over Chicago even without a cost difference. When my son was deciding between them, that was certainly the reaction of about 90% of the people we talked to – they couldn’t imagine why someone would turn down a chance to go to Michigan (unless maybe they were going to Harvard or Stanford). Granted, you are not “most people”, and Chicago is largely populated by “not most peoples”. But you shouldn’t assume that most people are dumb. In my experience, people tend to love Michigan to pieces – they learn a lot, they make great friends, they love Ann Arbor, they have fun. Going to Michigan is NOT some kind of second-class experience.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>AB: I’m not as articulate as JHS (who is??) and I don’t know much about you, but –</p>
<p>as someone who loves U of C to pieces, and who would have dearly loved to have either of her own 2 kids go there, I am in a pretty good position to tell you that Chicago is not even close to being worth $132K more than Michigan, unless your parents are in upper-6 figure territory. </p>
<p>I don’t know that your exact BA/BS/BSE matters if you’re probably not going to actually be an engineer. If you don’t start at the School of Engineering, can’t you wait a year before you declare a major, and in the meantime take some econ, math and physics and see what seems to fit best?</p>
<p>Michigan is a fabulous school, Ann Arbor is a great place (far superior in almost every regard to Hyde Park) and $132K is a ton of money.</p>
<p>Just to clarify something: I definitely DO NOT see Michigan as a second-class school. IMO it’s very amazing already, and because I see it as such a high caliber school I don’t feel very comfortable with dropping it in favor for Chicago, but at the same time, I don’t want to drop Chicago in favor of Michigan because it seems like such a great opportunity. The downside is that I’m more acquainted with Michigan because I’ve been to both orientation and campus visit, whereas I’ve only campus visited Chicago, so there isn’t much personal experience other than talking to people I know who know Chicago well and talking to Chicago people, including my admit counselor, who I just got off the phone with. The difference in experience just complicates my decision making … choosing which school to go to.</p>
<p>Really, going to Michigan is the much easier choice for me because everything is taken care of there … as I’ve said I’ve chosen my classes, gotten my housing assignment, and started paying for tuition … but it pains me to decline Chicago’s offer because it is my dream school and I want to go there.</p>
<p>^memake: </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes. I agree. Ann Arbor >>> Hyde Park … Ann Arbor truly rocks as a college town, but Hyde Park isn’t bad because I also love downtown Chicago</p>
<p>**Michigan vs. Chicago: 12 - 4 **</p>
<p>PS My admit counselor gave me an extension of 2 days to reply to the admission offer! In the mean time, I’m also going to contact the econ/math dept at Chicago for more info.</p>
<p>To the OP, I am a strong believer of the fact that education is the best form of investment. You should ignore the overall prestige, which each school has plenty. I think it is a good idea to contact the specific departments that suit your interest. It also depends on your career option. I picked Chicago over Michigan because I want to receive a PhD in biological science. I need the research experiences and opportunities. It is much, much harder to find research experiences at Michigan (and math other large public universities). One of my friends at UMich has not had any research experiences, and he just finished his second year! My family is not wealthy either. My parents earn about 83,000 combined, and they are willing to pay for a Chicago education because they believe, in the long run, it is going to be worth it. Ultimately, it is going to be up to you. Paying more for education may not be a bad thing. It’ll probably motivate you more (to study harder). Did you apply for financial aid?</p>
<p>^^^This is nonsense. Michigan has one of the largest and best undergraduate research opportunity programs in the country. If your friend doesn’t have any research experience, they have themselves to blame. It is not “much, much harder to find research experiences at Michigan.” That is a completely false statement. Go to Michigan ab2013. You should be thankful that you are a resident of Michigan and can get the quality public education that most other states cannot provide. It’s a much better bang for the buck than Chicago.</p>
<p>S1’s GF completed a double major in math and econ, so it can be done. She had a full social life as well (including finding a great BF). She really enjoyed it, and having graduate a year ago now really misses the “life of the mind.” Enough so, and unlike her work colleagues, she is giving up her high paying finance job and returning to graduate school next year. She has really grown to appreciate that unique educational experience that Chicago seems to offer.</p>
<p>rjkofnovi makes a great point.
umichigan has an excellent reputation and really great resources.
if my state school had what umich could offer, i would most definitely matriculate.
from what i heard, grad school is much more important than the undergrad education.
my chem teacher attended umich in the late 70s and loved it. he is such a great teacher and really knows his information. he studied chemical engineering and graduated with honors.
he then decided he wanted to go to b-school. why? idk but point of all of this is that spent a year fulfilling b school requirements and taking gmats . sorry i do not recall the specifics of his b school application process. but he ended up applying to wharton, uchicago and harvard b school. ultimately he was waitlisted @ wharton and accepted @ uchicago. he ended up attending uchicago and absolutely loved his b school.</p>
<p>i guess my point in telling you this was to remind you that individuals do not become successful by simply attending a prestigious institution. but you prob already knew that and have heard it a bunch of times… but he is an example of a successful individual who went to a competitive/reputable state school. i do not know how much help ihave provided… sorry
but hopefully this helps (in some little way) to help you make your decision.
i know you love u of c, especially the quest for knowledge the university inspires its students to partake. i believe that … that quest for knowledge can be trekked at any university. i believe it takes desire and motivation from within. i am having a hard time accepting that i will not be attending the university of chicago… for i have fallen in love in the university probably just as much as you have. i was put on the extended waitlist as well and i really thought that this was my opportunity. CONGRATS again to you buddy. i know how long you have waited and it is so great that they finally called you.
i know you deserve it… you have waited so long.
i hope you make the right decision and i hope that you are happy.
whatever institution you attend… i bet you will do great. honestly.
goodluck ab. :)</p>
<p>rjkofnovi, before you quickly dismiss others’ experiences and putting blames on them, you should consider the fact. The fact is, UMichigan is a much larger school than UChicago. I have friends at UC Berkeley, UC Davis and other prestigious public schools. Despite their prestige, their classes are humongous, and some students are unable to enroll in Orgo at UC Berkeley because the registrar office over-enrolled that course.</p>
<p>ab2013, you have to ask yourself, is it worth the cost to attend UChicago. Is it worth the cost to attend UMichigan? Does a UChicago education benefit you in the long run? Does a UMichigan education benefit you more?</p>
<p>Have you visited both universities? And remember, education is the best form of investment.</p>
<p>Go to Chicago!! Who knows what you’ll do in grad school, you might not even go to grad school, you never know. Your education and your years at Chicago are going to probably be memorable and you’ll be surrounded by the brightest students in the country. If I had the option of doing it again, I would go to Chicago in despite of the cost differential between Virginia and Chicago.</p>
<p>^^^^^^Michigan is better academically than Virginia. Also there is no university in this country that is worth over 100 grand more to attend than Michigan. Unless of course money is not a problem at all.</p>
<p>Alright, if you’re deep-down gut-feeling is “I love UChicago, I think I would ultimately be happier there than at UMich,” you should go to Chicago. Also, if you don’t like UChicago, it would be much easier to transfer to UMich your sophomore year, than to transfer to UChicago (if you decided UMich was not for you). Also, I don’t see how Ann Arbor could be “so much better” than Hyde Park. Hyde Park is one of the most culturally diverse and interesting places in the US.</p>