Choice for aerospace engineering

My daughter wants (or at least thinks she wants right now) to study aerospace engineering. Accepted to UMaryland Honors and UMich ( and few.others) She was rejected from GTech which wss her top choice. I feel she likes UMD better but UMich does have a strong reputation…i know it will be down to where she feels it is a better fit but snything about these 2 programs we should consider/know? Thanks

Awesome choices. Best of luck deciding.

They are both good. Which one is more affordable? Which one is closer to home? Have you visited both?

Michigan has the stronger program, but if you are OOS for both it also costs an additional $15k per year.

I think if you are going to make a assertion like that between two very similar programs you at least owe it to the OP to back it up with something substantive.

I think the location for UMD is better for jobs and fun. Its a more walkable campus with history. See the A James Clarke scholars at Maryland . Clarke was a very successful Maryland grad who has given large donations to many schools, with the biggest at Maryland. ( But also Stevens Institute , U Penn and other schools he liked . ) Maryland has much nicer weather, in the winter, and right on the METRO line to Wash DC, and Lockheed Martin is one of many aerospace employers in Maryland.

Michigan as a state, is recovering job wise, though but Ann Arbor, as popular as it is as a college town and football town is very cold and small. . Michigan has a very different sort of campus, the engineers are housed with Musical theatre on the north Ann Arbor campus, but freshman often live 3 miles away on the main campus. Also freshman classes are on the Main Ann Arbor campus, for the most part, so you will be on a bus a LOT if you go to Michigan. All classes at Michigan start 5 minutes late as kids straggle in off the bus. Football is on its own campus , south of
the main campus. I think football is king at Michigan while U of Maryland is more urban and sophisticated, for
say going to the actual National Orchestra in DC, going out to eat, going to museums, or night life in DC.

Washington DC is truly recovered and fabulous for anything you care to do.

Ann Arbor is a small attractive town in a cold place where you have traditions, like Zingermans baked goods, and
a wonderful and beautiful library , and excellence in all subjects from English to musical theatre to engineering.

I think the rank of Michigan may be overall a little higher, but Maryland is truly one of the best public schools on the entire east coast for math, CS, physics, and engineering.

So we are OOS for both (she got into UBuffalo Honors thay would be in state but she is not too keen on upstate NY). UMD is closer, and i think she likes the campus better (did not like north campus location/vibe when we visited). We will visit both again, just looking for some feedback, plusses and minuses - programs, faculty, job placement…thanks!

Thanks Coloradomama for the detailed post

@Momwith? - My D lived on North Campus at UMD for her first 2 years. It was convenient to a lot stuff. She moved to an apartment for her last 2 years. Also, the Goddard Space Flight Center is a couple miles north of UMD and NASA Headquarters is in DC. You might want to post specific engineering questions to @maryversity on the UMD Forum here
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-maryland-college-park/

@SoofDad i realize my email was not clear: she did not like north campus at UMich… will check the other boards but i have been reading @maryversity posts, which are very helpful

Ok I didn’t know that UMich had a north campus. @maryversity is very knowledge regarding UMD Engineering.

Hi @Momwith? ! Congrats on great admissions!

Michigan absolutely does have a great reputation in engineering, but so does Maryland!!!

Is there something specific about Michigan’s program that you like?

Do you have any questions about Maryland engineering? You said you have read a lot of my posts (I’m glad you have found them helpful!), but I’m not sure which ones you have read because I have written so many over the past several years, lol. I don’t want to direct you to threads you’ve already seen, so just feel free to ask any questions.

Have you compared apples to apples with respect to actual coursework that’s required and electives that are available and general university requirements?

As for your question about “anything about these 2 programs we should consider”…
While it’s not a programmatic thing to consider, something else to factor into the cost differential between schools is the element of convenience. My d goes to a school that is allegedly only a 4 hour drive from home, but more often than not, it’s a 6 - 7 hour drive from hell. Coming home for special occasions, family functions, etc is not an option, and that’s just because travel time is just too inconvenient and she can’t afford that much time to not get work done. With Michigan, I can’t even imagine the expense of airfare or the drive time…not to mention getting all her belongings out there and back every year. Consider that girls generally have a lot more clothes and things they need than guys. Case in point…we got my son down to school in one carload. A full car (SUV) load, but still one car with 4 people. My daughter? We had to take two very full (SUV) cars to move her in and there was only room for the driver and one passenger in each car…I kid you not. After the first year, we ended up renting a decent sized storage space local to campus to avoid a duplication of most of the hassle.

Have you seen http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-maryland-college-park/1743639-things-to-love-about-maryland-p1.html

@Momwith? there was mentioned of a separate north campus at Michigan for engineers and musical theatre…I have never been to Michigan, but it actually sounds like a similar set up to my state school, Rutgers. In contrast, the “north campus” of Maryland is literally referring to a geographical placement within a single, self-contained campus. That’s a very different scenario. My son did not like Rutgers set up at all and neither did I, so that was a reason to cross it off the list in our case.

So, how to choose which engineering school? Of course, there are always rankings, but they change from year to year, and honestly should only be one of the smaller factors in your decision process. I am a firm believer in “fit” and that is going to be different for every student. It’s important to go to campus and spend time to get a good sense of whether you can see yourself calling that school “home” for the next four years. Take note of the student body. How diverse is the student body? How competitive is the student body? What is the social life like?

After passing the student body test, look carefully at the specific program of study. Read the curricula and consider the courses required by your major and those required by the university. Look at the elective options. Note how frequently classes that you are interested in are offered. What resources are available for help with class. What opportunities are available for research and are there any restrictions on that (Maryland does offer research opportunities starting freshman year). If you decide to get an advanced degree, is there any “shortcut” available such as a 5 year option. (The answer is yes at both Maryland and Michigan - my son attended 5 years and got a BS in MechE and Masters in Robotics, my friend’s daughter went to Michigan and got BS and Masters in MechE in 5 years)

Since there is a limit on post size, I will have to break up my comments into several posts. First off, let me say that engineering is a tough major. You really have to have a passion for engineering to keep yourself motivated when you see your peers in other majors have considerably more free time for a social life and, in most cases, considerably less specific required classes to get their degree. I’m not talking about credits, as all majors require 120 credits to graduate, but what I mean is that there are a lot of specific courses required for engineering, so there’s less wiggle room in your schedule to take classes “just for fun.” Many kids would respond to that point with eye-rolling because they have never had much in the way of options in high school, but honestly, there are a lot of classes available that she might want to take simply because she is interested in the topic (how to start your own business, how to pick stocks, self-presentation in the age of youtube, relationships, etc). Of course, there are a lot of cool electives at the advanced level that are specific to engineering as well, but I was referring to classes outside of engineering.

On the positive side, the options for the university requirements (gen ed classes) have a LOT of options/diversity of topics, so you will have the “time” to take some of those “fun” classes. Also important to note is that Maryland only has two required English courses, and neither are literature-based. The freshman class is all about practical writing (you learn writing skills needed for your courses) and the junior class is all about professional writing (you learn how to write the types of documents required in your profession (so there are different sections for different majors), so for engineers it is all technical writing.

@Momwith? - The following website can be used to look at courses being offered at UMD. They do not offer the same courses every semester, but this can give you an idea of what they have.

https://app.testudo.umd.edu/soc/

There are also unique things to consider about Women In Engineering programs and opportunities…here is link to the calendar of events http://www.wie.umd.edu/events/index.php and the living learning program http://www.wie.umd.edu/undergrad/flexus

Also, with respect to creating a smaller school feeling within a larger university, your student has a double dip advantage because honors has a living learning community plus engineering has a special community.

As for professors, UMD takes a unique approach and doesn’t “save” the best profs just for upperclassmen. They have a program called Keystone which you can check out here http://www.keystone.umd.edu/about, https://eng.umd.edu/news/story/keystone-academy-fosters-great-fundamental-teaching

If you look at ASEE’s website, back in 2012 they did a study on retention in engineering education. While the entire report is interesting to read (download the pdf from the link) and look on page 22, you will see that Maryland is highlighted as a school that has created a really positive/successful model for retention in engineering: https://www.asee.org/retention-project

As for looking at curriculum to compare apples to apples, here is Maryland’s aerospace 4 year plan https://eng.umd.edu/sites/clark.umd.edu/files/enae-4yrplan-gened-2018-2019.pdf

Some other things available they kinda brush on but don’t really tell you about at the admitted student/intro programs are other unique opportunities like https://www.rhsmith.umd.edu/programs/undergraduate-programs/academics/fellows-special-programs/quest/what-quest and http://www.hinmanceos.umd.edu

Facilities are state of the art/cutting edge (especially for aerospace research - Maryland is the ONLY university with a neutral buoyancy lab to simulate weightlessness in space https://research.umd.edu/core-facilities/nbrf), there is a lot of government funding for research, opportunities to be part of a research team (even starting as a freshman!) and potentially get your name included on published research…lots of things if you care to take advantage of them. I’m not saying this to be boastful (although of course I am very proud, lol) but I can tell you that this is actually true and not just something they say. My son didn’t get involved in research until his junior year (of his own choosing), but when he did get involved, he was extremely fortunate that both of the projects he was involved in were published! (for undergrad he was a secondary author, and for grad he was primary author).

Professors at Maryland are approachable and take an interest when students take the time to come to office hours. My son’s job is a direct result of someone at Maryland recognizing that a startup company was working on a project similar to my son’s interest and made the introduction. That was his first internship as a sophomore and it was such a good match that he is now a full-time employee there.

@maryversity @SoofDad thank you both for all the info. Will dig into all this with my daughter. And then when we visit again hopefully it will help her get a better sense for “fit”

So one more question: my daughter got her 4th choice of LLP, university Honors. Any view on this? Is there a dorm requirement? She may apply to Flexus. Thanks!!

For aero I would pick UMD over Michigan.

That split campus at Michigan was a big drawback for my DD too. She had a friend who was an engineering at U Mich and said she spent a lot of time on the bus her first three semesters.

FLEXUS is probably a good choice for an Engineering student. MY D was in University Honors. It’s very flrxible and easy to complete the Honors Citation requirements. My D had completed those requirements by the end of her second year. Here is a link to Hagerstown Hall (the LLC for University Honors). It does not have air conditioning in the rooms. My D moved to Denton for her second year.

http://reslife.umd.edu/halls/ellicott/hagerstown/

“That split campus at Michigan was a big drawback for my DD too. She had a friend who was an engineering at U Mich and said she spent a lot of time on the bus her first three semesters.”

A five to ten minute bus ride is no big deal. What is there to do in College Park? It will take you a lot longer than 5-10 minutes to get to the interesting parts of DC.