<p>A friend of mine asked some advice on behalf of her D and it's something I haven't run across before, since my kids' schools did not work this way. At her D's school apparently you have until the semester following to decide whether or not you want a class to go down on your record as Pass/Fail or submit the actual grade earned in the course. In other words, you get to see the grade first before deciding whether to choose the pass/fail option. There is a limit to the number of times one can do this over the course of the undergrad career and it can't be applied to a class that is supposed to be applied to a major( even if the major is changed at a later time). </p>
<p>In this case ,the grade earned was certainly nothing to be ashamed of, especially since the class is not in her major, but not up to her usual and does drag down the GPA. The question is, at a school like this which allows the P/F option after the fact, would a P imply a bad grade and be a real negative? This would be the only Pass/Fail grade on her transcript and she doesn't anticipate using this option in the future. </p>
<p>My kids' colleges worked differently - one had to decide up front whether or not a class is going to be taken pass/fail or not and students planning to apply to grad or professional school are advised to use the option sparingly. My question is also whether or not grad schools and employers would be able to make the distinction between schools that allow the decision after the fact and those that use the P/F option more as a way to encourage students to broaden their horizons and take classes they otherwise might not. </p>
<p>I could see that it would be tempting to consider taking the "P", but may be better to show the grade in this case. What do you think? </p>
<p>The reason a school allows this is to encourage students to branch out and try things they would not without sacrificing their GPA for advanced degree admissions. No one will know when the P was selected. It just shows up on transcript but not in GPA. Not an issue. If anyone asks there no need to explain it was taken after the grade was announced. Take advantage of it. DD anticipates using all of hers to try classes that would challenge her.</p>
<p>I agree - Pass/Fail is there to let students take classes outside of their comfort zone without sacrificing the GPA. Use it, and don’t over-think it.</p>
<p>I don’t think posts #2 and #3 are answering the question. </p>
<p>I assume the case is something like this:
Girl has an A- GPA. She got a B+ in the course. Does it look better to have the B+ (which will bring down her GPA marginally) or the P (which won’t, but grad school might assume that her actual performance was worse than it is.)</p>
<p>I don’t know the answer, but I’m guessing that since it’s outside her major it won’t make a bit of difference one way or the other. I’d lean toward getting the grade not the P.</p>
<p>Most of the courses I took P/F in college were independent studies, and I wasn’t allowed to take them for a grade. I don’t think anyone assumed I did badly in them. One I took P/F because it was a grad level course in a field I hadn’t studied. I got a B+ and the prof asked me on my final paper why I hadn’t taken it for a grade. Of course I would have if I’d known I was going to get a decent grade.</p>
<p>Actually, I did answer the question- will anyone know if the P was selected after the fact? No one will know unless you tell them. For grad schools where GPA is everything - law school, med school for example, I would not take a grade the would reduce GPA in a course that did not mean anything in the specific course of study. Unless things have changed a lot, P/F options are in many schools and grad schools and employers do not know when the P/F was selected unless you tell them.</p>
<p>Nothing to do with the OP but …Here’s an ironic P/F story. S1 went to state u. on a full ride, was always on the Dean’s List,etc. After taking 18-20 hours every semester, his final sem. only req. 12 hrs. to grad. He decided to take two PE classes that would really help him post grad (he’s military). </p>
<p>He took Scuba Diving and Fitness Swimming. He’s a good swimmer/super buff kinda guy but decided to go P/F on the PE classes so he wouldn’t have to worry about doing great…just to make his last sem. easier. </p>
<p>So he’s does great in the PE’s…would have gotten A.
He got an A,B and B+ in other classes.</p>
<p>He graduates Magna Cum Laude on graduation day based on gpa up until final sem.</p>
<p>Then he gets notified that his diploma would read Cum Laude instead because by going P/F instead of getting the A’s he earned in PE, his gpa based on his three letter grades made his cum. gpa drop 0.004 below Magna Cum Laude status. </p>
<p>I guess the univ. has to look at all the last sem. grades before ordering diplomas to check for discrepancies. They mail the diplomas out in the summer.</p>
<p>S didn’t care. We laugh and say he still grad. MCL, it just doesn’t say so on his diploma.
A Dean’s List kid misses (official) MCL by .004 because he took swimmimg classes P/F in the last sem!</p>
<p>For PhD applications a good-but-not-grate grade outside of major won’t matter.
For Law schools it is the total college GPA that counts, so every grade matters.
For medschools some grades count more than others, but the total GPA still matters.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’d be any disadvantage in taking the P. There might be in taking the grade. Since at most schools this decision is made before the grade is known, I doubt anyone will assume it was a bad grade.</p>
<p>I would suggest that she take the P/F option. If she does decide to go to grad school (especially law school, where they look at the whole GPA) then she should write an addendum to explain why she did worse in that class than her others. Since its outside the her major it will probably be well received if explained. It shouldn’t be a big deal to employers, so I would not worry about that.</p>
<p>Grad schools and employers could look it up the schools policy (or know it if they’ve hired from there before) but it wouldn’t be advertised on a transcript or anything.</p>
<p>" In an aside, this kind of delayed decision is a source of grade inflation. I’m sure there are very few Cs or Ds given at this type of school. "</p>
<p>Not really, since you can’t Pass/Fail major degree classes. So a science-y major can’t pass/fail their intro to chem class or calculus class (both killer classes at my school). My school has a similar policy, except we only get 1/2 the semester to switch between P/F and actual grade.</p>
<p>Thanks for the opinions. Apparently, it would also mean the difference between honor roll /dean’s list recognition this semester. Yes, I think one of the concerns was that it might make it seem like the grade was a bad one, which it wasn’t at all. </p>
<p>Packmom, Oh, so close! Glad your S took it well - sounds like a young man with a good perspective on things.</p>
<p>Here’s something else to consider, especially for grad school applications. Would another college even “recognize” the course if it’s not a letter grade? My son had the option to take P/F or letter grade. At first, he wanted to do the P/F thing because he was worried about his gpa. But, when he was transferring, any new school “threw out” his P/F course.</p>
<p>limabeans, That’s definitely something to consider for undergrad transfer applications. </p>
<p>In the meantime, I checked out some other threads on this topic, including in the med and law school forums - common wisdom suggests that more than two or three pass-fail classes might be an issue at many places. My guess is that like many things, it depends on things like the undergrad school, the nature of the specific course, the rest of the transcript, the competitiveness of the grad school/ position, recommendations etc. </p>
<p>My recommendation was to have her contact her academic advisor, who would be in the best position to know what to tell her based on the specifics.</p>