<p>9 x 4 = 32</p>
<p>Unless your family can pay this difference painlessly, then yes, it does change everything.</p>
<p>And whoops my math is wrong. That should be 36k difference.</p>
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<p>This isn’t true. Stanford’s premed advising is great. Some might be thinking its advising isn’t as good as its peers because Stanford’s acceptance rate to med schools is lower than its peers. But these rates tell you nothing - they don’t tell you what the majors of the applicants are (Stanford has a higher proportion in engineering who apply to med school), or what schools they applied to (it could be that schools with higher rates simply were less risky in the schools they applied to, e.g. Vanderbilt med vs. Harvard med), or which ones they got into (the acceptance rate is for those who got into any med school, not necessarily their first choice or near it).</p>
<p>IMO Haverford isn’t worth $36k over Stanford.</p>
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Only you and your family can answer this. Certainly, a $36K cost advantage does strengthen the case for Stanford. But if you are leaning toward Haverford, you could try showing them the better offer.</p>
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<p>Dr. Jenette Wheeler apparently retired as Haverford pre-med advisor a few years ago. I don’t know if she continues to play a consulting role.
(<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/haverford-college/322428-bio-major.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/haverford-college/322428-bio-major.html</a>)</p>
<p>Haverford is a tremendous school, which is why this debate is evening happening. But STANFORD for BIOLOGY – I do not know any college in the country that has a better overall pre-med, biology profile than Stanford and the grading at Stanford is not that difficult (not sure re Haverford).</p>
<p>Haverford is only slightly ahead of Stanford in future bio PhD production, perhaps because Haverford has fewer majors:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/60990-phd-production-biology-health-sciences.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore/60990-phd-production-biology-health-sciences.html</a></p>
<p>At Haverford undergrads don’t have to compete with grad students for the best research spots.</p>
<p>“Pre-med advising” is overrated. That should not play any role in your decision. A student who tests well enough to get into these schools should do well on required pre-med courses and on the MCATs assuming they were not recruited with an 1800 SAT and Heisman trophy potential. Haverford can’t compare to Stanford with the depth of its Biology offerings but that may matter little to an undergraduate pre-med bio major who will get excellent training at each. Hopefully you have visited both campuses. This should boil down to LAC vs. university fit and geography if the money doesn’t matter to you. Even if you live on the other coast, $9K in savings buys a lot of transcontinental flights with money to spare.</p>
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<p>They don’t compete at Stanford, either. Rather, grad students get the funded positions (as their ability to attend is dependent on that), and undergrads work alongside them (sometimes funded, sometimes for credit). Often, you’ll be spending more time with a prof’s research team (grad students, postdocs, research scientists, etc.) than with the prof him/herself. I’m not sure if profs take on postdocs or research scientists at a LAC, but you’ll probably get more face time with the prof in research. The downside of course is that you’d be working with a prof who’s not at the level of the profs at a research university. Lower quality faculty = less demand for their time (most profs at LACs tried to get tenured positions at a university, but couldn’t - harsh, I know, but that’s generally true in academia).</p>
<p>Amendment: when I say ‘lower quality faculty,’ of course that’s in regard to research. Teaching ability is something different altogether.</p>
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<p>Yes it changes everything. If the difference were reversed, there could still be a very good case for going to Stanford. Imo, this financial aid package ought to seal the deal. But if you’re bent on going to Haverford, see if they can match your offer by Stanford. If not, don’t go there. As phantasmagoric said, and as i think would be echoed by many of the posters here on CC:</p>
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<p>I agree that the financial difference should pretty much end this discussion.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the advice. One more factor I am considering is getting research grants at either school. I have conducted independent research projects all four years at a local medical school, and plan to continue my research wherever I choose to go to college. Additionally, another school (Cornell) has guaranteed me $8000+ for research as a part of the Hunter R. Rawlings III Presidential Research Scholar Program. </p>
<p>I have also already found professors at Stanford’s School of Medicine who match my interests and previous research. How easy it is to get research funding at either Stanford or Haverford? I plan to get started late in my freshman year.</p>
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Haverford has various funding opportunities:
[Beckman</a> Scholars Program](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/kinsc/students/beckman_scholars.php]Beckman”>http://www.haverford.edu/kinsc/students/beckman_scholars.php): The requirements of the program are as follows: two summers of full-time research in a lab(and participation in research at Haverford [i.e. not abroad] for both semesters next academic year (2012-2013).</p>
<p>Amount of Award: approximately $18,000, including summer research stipends, $4,000 scholarship, and allowances for travel and research materials. Funding is from the Arnold and Mabel Beckman Foundation.</p>
<p>[Howard</a> Hughes Medical Institute Program](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/kinsc/HHMI/program/interdisciplinary.html]Howard”>http://www.haverford.edu/kinsc/HHMI/program/interdisciplinary.html) :The HHMI Interdisciplinary Scholars Program aims to introduce students to research early in their careers by providing summer research fellowships at Haverford, which provide close interaction between the student and a faculty mentor.</p>
<p>Students apply during their freshman, sophomore or junior year, and 12-15 students will be accepted to the program each year. Applications are due in the beginning of the spring semester.</p>
<p>You can read more about research opportunities here: [Department</a> of Biology - Student Resources - Haverford College](<a href=“http://www.haverford.edu/biology/resources/student.php]Department”>http://www.haverford.edu/biology/resources/student.php)</p>
<p>I think you should discuss the financial aid situation with the FA office and see what they can do.</p>
<p>If you’re still laboring over this choice, then politely fax/email Haverford a copy of your Stanford offer. This is one cross-admit they might pay to win.</p>
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<p>At Stanford it’s relatively easy to get funding to do research in almost any field. The UAR gives out large grants ($6,000) for projects or small grants ($1500) for conferences/travel and such, not to mention other grants for field research, study abroad, arts projects, public service, etc. It’s also relatively easy to get an on-campus research internship over the summer in almost any department, funded by the VPUE, where the standard pay is $6,000 for 10 weeks of full-time research ($15/hour).</p>
<p>[Student</a> Grants for Research and Creative Projects](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_Grants.html]Student”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/undergrad/cgi-bin/drupal_ual/OO_research_opps_Grants.html)</p>
<p>These aren’t one-time opportunities, and most who do it get many such grants and multiple offers. In total I was offered over $30,000 (and I’m not ‘special’).</p>
<p>After emailing the Haverford FA office, they said they are unable to match offers my other schools. So it stays at:</p>
<p>Stanford: ~6k (responsible)
Haverford: ~15k (responsible)</p>
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<p>I really like Haverford and feel the small size and community feel will aid in preparation for med school. *I was also selected among 15 students at Haverford to be a Chesick Scholar, a mentoring program that helps in planning my classes, getting research opportunities, etc. </p>
<p>BUT - I feel SO much pressure from my family, peers, teachers, etc. to choose Stanford. The Stanford name is obviously no match for Haverford. Will name recognition of the school aid in med school admissions? And do you all feel (from a UNBIASED perspective) that comparing Stanford to Haverford is a no brainer? Everyone keeps telling me it should be an obvious choice (especially with the financial difference)…but I want no regrets in the school I choose. Thank you all for the very, very helpful advice.</p>
<p>Do you feel perhaps that Stanford will not aid as much in preparation to med school? It seems that what’s holding you back is reservations about premed at Stanford, but I don’t think that should be a concern; if anything, being able to do research and take classes at the med school gives you better chances of getting into med school.</p>
<p>If you have reservations mainly because you think Haverford has a stronger community feel because of its size, then that’s something you need to reconcile with. How important is it to you? Are you going to visit? If so, I think you’ll get an idea of the community at Stanford (although Admit Weekend is hectic).</p>
<p>Only you can decide if it’s an obvious choice or not; if you’re staunchly an LAC-type person, then Stanford isn’t the obvious choice. IMO if finances are a real concern, then yes it’s obvious.</p>
<p>OP, have you ever worked a day in your life? Picking a school that adds up to a net price of almost $40,000 more is ridiculous, especially when it’s between two elite schools like this. Even if you prefer an LAC atmosphere, I don’t think it’s worth paying that kind of money for it.</p>
<p>No matter which school you choose, you’ll probably love it, and you’ll probably have some regrets about not choosing the other one. It may feel obvious that Haverford gives the better education, but it’s hard to point to anything convincingly objective (other than the med school acceptance rate). If you have the extra $36K over four years, then go with your heart; if you don’t, I’m not convinced that the undergrad debt is worth it (never mind the rankings fans!).</p>
<p>As an HC lover, unfortunately I must agree that given the financial aid package you should go to Stanford. 36K is a lot of money.</p>