<p>My 12th grade son does not know what music school to choose. He has a passion for music and cannot see himself doing anything else in life. Dad and I have encouraged him to do a double major, and he understands the importance of having another major and has agreed. He plays the trumpet, but will major in composition. He has taken Music Theory and Ear Training Lab I and II at the community college and will take III and IV starting in the fall.He has composed on his own and is currently taking private lessons in composition. Years ago, his goal was to play in an orchestra. Now, he has no plans for trumpet performance except to accept opportunities to play as a way of making extra money. He is a solid performer - not 1st chair, no state competitions (not allowed because he is home-educated), no solo repertoire except for solo & ensemble festival at the district level, plays in youth orchestra. He will have an opportunity to have compositions played and recorded through his private instructor. He wants to compose as a career. His goal is to compose film scores. I cannot assess his talent as a composer because I am not a musician. After looking at the score of an orchestral piece he wrote himself, his private teacher feels like he has an underdeveloped talent. She recommended him for their school's honor program. But I've had another composer look at the same piece and (in so many words) say that he wasn't impressed except for the fact that he completed an entire 20 minute score for a full orchestra. Needless to say, I'm confused as to whether or not he has potential. That is beside the point, though. I'm here to ask about universities with good/great music programs with especially good composition and brass instruction. My son does not want to attend a conservatory because he plans to double major with a non-music subject. We live in Maryland and would like to stay within 300 or so miles (MD, NY, PA, VA, DE, NC, etc.) from this area; although he is not against going further. As a matter of fact, he'd like to attend USC, but he is not willing to jump through their hoops for homeschoolers. ANY advice would be appreciated. Oh, my son is solid academically - 3.87 GPA, college courses with 3.85 GPA, several courses taken through outside providers, very good SAT/ACT scores (well above national averages, but not full-ride scholarship worthy).</p>
<p>I posted an answer to your post on the Search Forum so won’t repeat it here. But, if you give us an idea of other things that are important to your son in a college experience, asides from the study of composition leading towards scoring for film - we can give you ideas of colleges which might meet his needs/desires.</p>
<p>The other thing to consider is if he wants an ‘auditioned’ music program. If that is not important, there are any number of colleges with composition programs to which he could get accepted where he would be able to major in music without having to be accepted directly into the major from high school.</p>
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<p>The thing about S is that he is very apathetic about everything. The only must-haves that he’s expressed:
- must have a classical music focus
- must have a symphony orchestra
- prefers that it has major film studies (because he wants to compose for film and understands the importance of networking)
- and prefers if it is in a big city (but not a must)
- no conservatories because he wants to double major in non-music. Has mentioned that he thinks a LAC will be best for him
- must be a reputable music program - will go to graduate school, so quality of undergrad is important</p>
<p>I also think that these would be important to him:
7. offers classes in composing on computer
8. good/great composition teachers
9. good/great trumpet teacher
10. music computer lab with current technology
11.S is also quite reticent until he gets to know people, so a friendly, accepting atmosphere would be helpful.
12. he’s is not the most talented trumpet player, but has underdeveloped potential. He played piano until 12 years old and did not pick up the trumpet until 4.5 years ago. I’m not sure where he stands as a composer - I’ve had mixed feedback on his scores.
13. I prefer that he be within 300 miles from Maryland…I’d like for him to stay on the East Coast (North Carolina and up), but he is game for going anywhere. </p>
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<p>I don’t think it really matters to him whether the program is auditioned or not. As it stands now, he is preparing to have to audition for each college to which he plans to apply. I’d like to hear you options for college “which he could get accepted where he would be able to major in music without having to be accepted directly into the major from high school.”</p>
<p>Does he want to double major because you think he can’t make a living with a music degree in composition, even though he intends to go to grad school? Or does he want to get a second major because he can’t imagine spending years of his life in college without immersing himself in serious academics? Schools which are supportive of double degrees are a smaller bunch. Schools where he would get double major for two BA’s are a different matter.</p>
<p>My son’s BM is the pre-professional degree and is intended for his career. His BA in Classics is the one for fun, and will probably never bring him a penny, per se, but is being studied for the sheer love of learning.</p>
<p>There are many many universities and liberal arts colleges where your son could get a BA degree in Music Composition without auditioning - schools like Princeton, Yale, Swarthmore, Univ. of Virginia, Duke, Wesleyan, Williams, Tufts, Bard College (not the Conservatory,) Skidmore, Goucher, and multitudes more like them. He would have no trouble applying for grad school with such degrees. This is not to say that an arts supplement would not be helpful in admission.</p>
<p>However, for NYU, Northwestern, Michigan and USC - all with renowned film schools - for those he would need to apply to their Schools of Music as a composition applicant. They all have top-notch composition departments and he should definitely investigate them, but knowing they will be very competitive.</p>
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<p>He wants to get a double degree because Dad and I have encouraged him to and also because he understands that he will have a tough time making a living with a degree in composition. However, he cannot see himself involved in anything but music. He does not know what his other major will be at this time. He is sure that he wants to be able to explore subjects other than music. </p>
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<p>There is no way S would ever get into Princeton or Yale. His academics are solid, but not extraordinary. I will make a list of the others and have him research the colleges within our desired 300 miles. </p>
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<p>I will have him look into these also. He’s always wanted to attend USC because of their film schools. He plans to apply there as a graduate student. </p>
<p>Thank you so much for this information. This process is stressing S and me out. He is the first of our children to go to college. Because we home-educate, we have no counselor to guidance.</p>
<p>I know that on this Forum parents are always encouraging their children to get a second degree in something other than music because they doubt they can support themselves with a Music degree. Many of us have responded that a music degree is as valuable as any other - both for applications to Law School, Med School etc. and for applying for jobs that require a college degree. In addition, I don’t know why everyone is convinced composers can’t make a living. I know a number who do, and very comfortably! And, if your son is successful in film or game scoring - there is a very good living to be made.</p>
<p>As for Princeton/Yale - I threw those out there because they do have very good composition departments, and you don’t need to apply to them directly. But there are so many other schools he could consider. Have him check out the film department as well as the music departments. Have him check out the faculty’s websites, listen to their music, read the curriculum requirements for the composition degree. And I recommend having him meet with the Chair of the Composition department, or one of the composition professors if it’s a general music department, this fall. An informational meeting to discuss the program and opportunities, and to share his music with them.</p>
<p>Other schools I haven’t mentioned in the Northeast/East to look at are: Ithaca College, Carnegie Mellon, and, in Ohio - Bowling Green State, CCM at Univ of Cincinnati, and Oberlin (although someone who wants to write movie music might not be happy there aesthetically.)</p>
<p>I want to add on to what Spirit Manager said about “career prospects” guiding college choice and shaping what your child feels he “should” study versus what he wants to study. If a child is passionate about something like music performance, theater or composition or writing for film, then it makes sense given how competitive it is to make it in those fields that he/she attend the best school he can to learn about that area. If he/she realizes in pursuing that potential career that he/she does not want to spend all of their time in the pursuit of an arts career, then they can always transfer or change majors. Or as Spirit Manager said they might be able to use the skills they learned in studying what ever art they were studying to apply to jobs or professional programs outside in another area. As my youngest son said to us, “I feel like my serious study of music has given me the knowledge and the confidence to know that I can learn and master anything in the future.”</p>
<p>It seems many parents shoot down their kids arts careers before the child even has a chance to throw themselves into it to see if it really is what they want to do. The parents do this by planting the seed that a child will never be able to make a living in the arts and so the serious pursuit of it is pointless. The problem with this mentality is it is self defeating. If a child does not believe they can make it in the arts or that there is any value in pursuing it, they will not spend the time they need to spend on their craft/art to ever have a chance of making it in the field. I suppose if a child is passionate enough about the study of arts they will ignore the parent. But I often wonder how many are discouraged from pursuing their dreams by this career mentality.</p>
<p>Some background. I am at the other end of this experience. My youngest child is about to head off to Conservatory and my oldest just graduated from college. You can be sure I am nervous. The funds to help our kids are very limited. My oldest child went off to Conservatory for Theater (NYU Tisch). At the time that was ALL she wanted to do. She left after a year realizing that the theater lifestyle was not for her. But also she took some required liberal arts classes in her program and became intrigued and decided she wanted to take psychology and other classes as well. She transferred. In a few weeks she starts graduate school and will enter an accelerated program to become a nurse practitioner. She already as a BA in Nutrition and Dietetics. Does she regret that year doing movement and theater studies at NYU? No. In fact it has helped her a lot because she is not afraid to talk of public speaking. She is amazing at patient interactions. But more importantly she is not looking back on her life wondering, “Should of, could of, what if I had.” </p>
<p>So that being said: Berklee has an amazing film scoring department. Their facilities are state of the art. My son’s friend who went there just had a song he wrote be a finalist for a big-name product’s commercial. Also if your son wants to branch out students at Berklee can take courses at other consortium colleges in the area like Northeastern and Emerson and the School of Museum of Fine Arts. There is this great program called Pro-Arts that the students at these schools rave about that makes it easy to cross register (for credit or not).</p>
<p>Look up Garth Neustadter. He is a Lawrence University graduate. Don’t overlook this program in Appleton, Wisconsin. They have a conservatory but you can double major. My son had a fabulous education there.</p>
<p>Take a look at Elon- it has hands on opportunities for film making, interesting internships, and a nice music department. It’s small enough and supportive. It is not in a major city, but within driving distance of some. In NC, good possibilities may be UNC, UNC-G, UNC Charlotte.</p>
<p>I completely support my son seeking only a BM in Composition at Oberlin Conservatory. He had for a period thought of applying to the college as well for the 5 year dual degree program because of his strong interest in math. But he decided that his interest in math can be satisfied by simply taking several math courses while in the Conservatory. He may take a fifth year in the Conservatory for a MM in Conducting and then his plan is a Ph.D or DMA in Composition with the goal to teach at the university/conservatory level. If he suddenly decided to switch tracks, he will have taken sufficient math courses to proceed to grad school in math. This is not by way of backup plan but is derived from his love of the subject. We need some kids to stick to the Arts for the sake of Art. Not to mention the fact that the kids are just so interesting and thoughtful. A classics degree from Bard demonstrates the depth of thought of SpiritManager’s son. That same depth of thought can be applied to any field. Employers don’t like drones. They need to be managed too much.</p>
<p>I agree with SpiritManager and Stacjip regarding the need to support children who want to go into the arts. I’ve seen so many parents discourage their children. Had I listened to them, my now 24-year old full-time professional classical painter-daughter would not be where she is today.</p>
<p>I have a 16-year old who wants to go into music performance and I have encouraged her to do so. she is extremely enthusiatic and works very hard at it. You said your son is “apathetic”. Is he that way because he isn’t so interested in it, or because she’s been dissuaded from pursuing it?</p>
<p>He could attend the University of Maryland, no? That’s relatively inexpensive for in-state students and a large music department.</p>
<p>Since you don’t have access to guidance counseling (not that it’s all that great for music anyway) I wanted to address a few little “tells” in your post that concerned me, perhaps unnecessarily, and hopefully assist you in assisting your son:</p>
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<p>There are two issues here for which to be prepared. In order to choose a school, your son will first have to “be chosen” – and usually at a number of places in order to find the right financial package, because just like top academic programs, many top music programs are prohibitively expensive. So hopefully you meant "does not know which 10 or 12 schools to originally apply to 
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<p>– You can in the process whittle that number down based on feedback after submissions, but since at the top schools, you will have the added challenge of demonstrating prior academic rigor, you would be well-served by a wide net.</p>
<p>That will quite likely mean, since you do not have traditional methods of assessing his talent level, a pretty devoted season of application and research - which will “end” for you Dec. 1st in the case of portfolio comp programs. </p>
<p>If he’s serious and wants to be somewhere where there is a high level of play as well, he will want to prepare portfolios for those top music schools that SpiritManager mentions, as well as a range of in-state and liberal arts colleges and other programs mentioned here. </p>
<p>I don’t know what kind of “hoops” are turning him off of applying to USC, but I will bet my bottom dollar they’re not more of a hassle than a) any of the other top composition programs that require a track record of academic rigor and b) any more difficult or time consuming that applying to ANY MUSIC SCHOOL AT ALL.</p>
<p>So you may want to coach him around the idea that there are, in fact, many hoops ahead – but there’s also an economy of scale. Guide him, then see if he’s up for it. If he’s not ready to take on the app process, (eg. “apathetic” comment) he might be better served with a gap year, which would give him some more time to fine tune a composition portfolio and develop a fuller appreciation of his intentions and what it will take. In other words, once you’ve assisted him in his initial research and organizing the requirements of various programs, it’s on him, so don’t let it stress you ;)</p>
<p>I personally think it would be simply insane NOT to at least apply to USC if he seriously wants to score films. I don’t care what the hoops are.</p>
<p>Best wishes in your search.</p>
<p>I am not associated with this school, but still putting a word of advice to look at Elon as they seem to take a holistic and personal look in their admissions. They have a communications major with internships that include film, a good music department, and personal advising. I share KMCmom13’s concern that as a home schooler, you and your son have not had much guidance in this process compared to students in public schools. It is a huge leap from home school into a large competitive university where the students must fend for themselves. A smaller LAC may be a better transition, with a larger school being the step to take at the graduate level. The Elon internships may be an opportunity to experience the film world before taking that giant leap- socially and emotionally if he does not seem to be ready now. If you are visiting the area- High Point University is a short distance away and has music and communications. Neither of these schools are in big cities, but are close enough to drive to them. I know of one home schooler who was very happy at High Point. Your son may be very talented, but if he is hesitant about the next step or you both feel less prepared, these schools could be comfortable places for him.</p>
<p>Woodwinds - regarding your question >You said your son is “apathetic”. Is he that way because he isn’t so interested in it, or because she’s been dissuaded from pursuing it?<</p>
<p>S is NOT apathetic about music. He is very passionate about music and cannot imagine doing anything that is not music-related. What I meant to convey is that he has an apathetic personality when it comes to most everything except music. He is apathetic about researching colleges. He has no enthusiasm about it; I guess because he feels overwhelmed and does not know where to start. </p>
<p>And everyone, please do not get me wrong. Dad and I wholeheartedly support and nurture our son’s love of music. I drive him 1 hour to private lessons every week, 1.75 hours to composition lessons every week, 1.5 hours to orchestra rehearsal every week, we allow him to take music courses at the community college every semester even though these courses are not required for high school, and we take him to every music opportunity that he requests. AND…we have two other children. Because we home-educate, the musical opportunities are a bit harder to find and I’ve sat for hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month, year searching for opportunities in which he could participate and reaching out to college music departments to find every opportunity that I could. So please do not think that we are trying to persuade him against studying music. Dad says, “Follow your dream. Don’t chase the almighty dollar. Do something you love.” On the other hand, I am more practical, realistic, maybe even pessimistic (please forgive me, I am simply trying to be honest) and encourage him to pursue music first and foremost, but that he should also have something else to do in case he is not hired to compose. I’ve even suggested a second major/degree in music, like a PhD in theory/DMA in composition so that he can teach, or a second degree in recording arts or arts management. I do not have a preference for the second degree, however, he has said that he is not interested in teaching, recording, or managing - that he prefers a second degree unrelated to music. </p>
<p>Walking alongside S in his pursuit of music has been a very tiring but enjoyable walk. We wish him all the success that he desires and is willing to work for. It would thrill me to pieces if my son were to become the film composer that he desires to be because I know that will make him the happiest man in the world.</p>
<p>I have a daughter who didn’t do senior year of high school, because she danced in a company. When she decided she did want to go, she got a GED and, later, a diploma from an accredited school we found online. She didn’t have to take any further courses. PM me if you want to know more. This path eliminated the “hoops” you mentioned.</p>
<p>I guess you will hear from many of us that you do not need to urge your son to get a degree in something else besides music. A bachelor’s in music, whether BM or BA, is as good as any other degree in applying for jobs requiring a bachelor’s. Undergrad education is sliding toward vocational focus, especially with the recession, but many of us resist it! As I have written before, a few years ago, I read that 66% of music majors get into medical school, the highest percentage of any one group.</p>
<p>As Spirit Manager said, the important thing is whether your son has other interests that he cannot bear to give up. Her son loves classics, my daughter loves art history. Both are composers. Her son is doing a double degree BM/BA, my daughter is doing a BA in music but at a school that allows 50% of her coursework to be in music for her major.</p>
<p>The most important decision before your son (and, don’t mean to offend, but we all learn that the decision is before our kids, not us, except when finances are involved!) is whether a BA or BM, single degree, double degree or double major.The Peabody site has a great piece on this: [Peabody</a> Institute - Conservatory Admissions: The Double Degree Dilemma](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree]Peabody”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/doubledegree) You, your son, and your spouse should all take the time to read this!</p>
<p>Again, I recommend a book available online called “Creative Colleges.” It will help with making a list of choices.</p>
<p>Have you looked at Peabody/Johns Hopkins?</p>
<p>Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence are schools (and there are many others) that offer double degrees (and double majors) on campus, where there is both conservatory and college. Harvard and Tufts have double degrees with NEC. Peabody and Hopkins, the list goes on. State U’s have BM programs, but usually require an audition on an instrument, which I know you want to avoid. Hartt and Ithaca have both conservatories and colleges.</p>
<p>Most college BA music major programs do not require an audition, as Spirit Manager said, and she listed some of those that do. There are many, many colleges with good music dept.'s and good academics. Again, check out "Creative Colleges. "You can also look at schools like Bennington or Sarah Lawrence, where independent, interdisciplinary studies are encouraged and a student can take lots of music while also working on film, literature, science or whatever.</p>
<p>Your son might want to have a piece played and entered in a state Music Teacher’s competition, or some other competition, just to see how he does. I personally dislike competitions, and my daughter does even more, but she was surprised to do well in a couple during senior year and it helped guide decisions. Then she could stop doing them!</p>
<p>An orchestral piece is ambitious and he must have learned a lot. Writing some shorter pieces helps in getting them played and in having a portfolio for schools. </p>
<p>One other thing: most film scorers do the traditional classical training first. It is true that USC has a grad program for film scoring and undergrads get in automatically. But there are many other schools where composers can interact with film students, or dance students or even art or literature students.</p>
<p>Keep in touch and good luck!</p>
<p>University of Maryland is the only collge on his list right now - I think only because it is close and we’ve visited. </p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about the quality of the music program (especially composition and trumpet) at UM College Park?</p>
<p>University of Maryland’s Music School site looks great. I noticed that the BA in Music does not include composition, but the BM does. Also, any music major is through the School of Music. In some schools that have both academic and music-focused schools, there is a school of music major (BM) and then a college music major (BA). Often you can study composition for either degree.</p>
<p>Most BA programs include composition as part of a general music major, with theory, history, composition, musicology, ethnomusicology, and technology/electroacoustic work. U. of Maryland does not appear to have a general major for a BA in what could be called “academic music.” Academic music majors do not require an instrument at all, and no audition is needed either, though supplements w/CD or DVD can be helpful.</p>
<p>U. of Maryland’s BA appears to be an instrumental performance degree (including trumpet) that allows for more academic courses than the BM, but there is, again, no composition major. At least that I can see. For composers, there is an audition on the applicant’s instrument, a portfolio, and it says they should have some advanced theory already. This is for the BM only, because there is no BA in composition. For the BA, the live audition requirements for trumpet are the same as the audition requirement for the BM.</p>
<p>Your son can go to virtually any college and study composition as a BA music major. Or he can go to a conservatory/music school and study composition for a BM. But Maryland only allows composers to study in the BM program, which means fewer academic classes. If that is what he wants, it looks like a wonderful choice.</p>
<p>Ive been thinking a lot about this thread, sorry to be so late. Our boys seem to have much in common, though were across the country & my son is starting college in fall. Hes going for a comp BM in a large public university, far away from home. Hes excited about it, and seems ready to go in every way. Clearly they want him, he likes them, and its a super program, in a nice town with terrific people. And he even got a very decent scholarship. Im feeling no qualms about moving him so far away (aside from the normal woe-is-me.) From this end it all looks perfectly packaged & clearly inevitable, but in fact getting to this point was an amazingly long, circuitous, and often rocky path. So, here are a few notes from our experience, which I think is actually pretty normal. </p>
<p>Our sons apathy around the college app process worried me a lot. I dont think it was personal concern over not being ready, or not being good enough, but that may have been some of it. Perhaps there was some fear of the unknown, or at least uncertainty, and definitely it had to do with being thoroughly sick of school at the time. Whatever it was, it was very frustrating for me. If AP English hadnt required a college essay, Im pretty sure it never would have happened. He was just about ready to give it all up & take a year off, so getting him through the applications, esp with the early deadlines, extra forms, resume, audition cd, and the packets of scores & recordings required for comp BM programs was often excruciating. (He was super-clear about the BM, by the way, no BA, period. But also no stand-alone conservatories!) Because he was far too busy, on top of being rather apathetic, I did almost 100% of the work of researching, organizing, setting deadlines, etc. With a lot of help from some of the wonderful people on this very post I learned about the various types of programs, looking for those within his parameters, such as I could discover which, like your sons, mostly wont exist all together Then I laid them out, & he decided where to apply. (Some fellow-parent friends teased me for my super-active part in the process. But the HS counselor told all the parents that our kids could not possibly do this on their own. Thank goodness for him I didnt need the guilt on top of everything else!) Finally during auditions he got the bug it all became real and more exciting. I just wanted him to have options, and my bet was right, hes changed an enormous amount over the past year. And though it took a while to get over having to choose between two schools, hes now wearing his school hoodie with pride. Its very clear that hes intellectually & socially ready for the next step. </p>
<p>All this is to say Ive had a few thoughts about your son based on our experience. Id think it might be a good idea to try to find out why hes not motivated by the college app process, but if he doesnt know, or wont say, I really wouldnt worry too much about it. Just put one foot in front of the other, lead the march, and let him know what the options are. Offering lots of information helped I made a grid (as best I could) with app deadlines/requirements and the schools major requirements/GE requirements, and after a tiny bit of his own research & additions, our son used that list to decide where to apply - though the list changed over time of course. I broke the process into steps & tried to stick with one step at a time. He didn’t mind making choices between known quantities. More college visits would have helped a lot we werent able to visit more than two until auditions, and one was only after he was admitted. Finally, I think its important to keep in mind that time & experience will change things enormously. Only a year ago our son was still planning to apply for jazz trumpet at some schools, and I was pretty strongly of the opinion that he needed a small private school. We were both wrong! So my main advice is to stay light on your feet, & keep an open mind.</p>
<p>To the questions about the major(s). I think its rare for a college student to do really well if theyre not personally invested in their program. College is hard work, and its 50 times harder if you dont care much for your major. Further, almost no major leads directly to a job all by itself. Jobs & careers are often more closely connected to things students do outside their major, like internships, building relationships with faculty & other students, research, volunteering, leadership positions, getting grants, etc. And so many professions require graduate school now. An interesting thing we discovered about majoring in composition is that at many colleges, even for a BM, students dont declare the comp major until the end of the second year. In which case, it might be harder to get individual lessons for the first two years. And, at least one of those schools told us it really takes at least 4 ½ years to finish the degree. Also, every school has a different idea about the need for a performance audition, and they each put a different weight on it. Theres so much to find out! Your son might want a program thats a bit less intensive at first, and that will let him try things out for a bit the first year or so (and maybe search out another major he likes as well). I met a composer recently who got a full ride for a comp MM at a fabulous grad school on the East Coast, and he has a performance degree in guitar, or maybe a BA, from a small private LAC in California. Or, your son might prefer to get his recordings & audition pieces together as quickly as possible and try for schools where he can do a BM and a BA. If hes applying in fall, be aware that at least one major music programs deadline is Nov. 1st. </p>
<p>Finally, Id like to second (or third?) Lawrence University. One can get a BA in music, or a double BM/BA - though that is a 5-year program (true most places, esp with music), and they are SO welcoming, & friendly! And they are super-supportive of doubles. Its a marvelous school. My son was accepted there & loved it so much, it was really hard to make the final decision. </p>
<p>Gads, sorry to be so long-winded. Hope it helps at all!</p>
<p>compmom and momophony, thanks for the helpful info. I’m debating whether to apply as a comp major or not and this was very informative.</p>
<p>We homeschooled our composition major son senior year, so he would have more time for music… and marine biology… </p>
<p>You might want to get some help from his composition and/or trumpet teacher to decide which schools might be a good fit. We did this with our son (piano/composition), and the teacher was a real advocate in helping suggest schools… That way you can get some outside help from someone who might know the college landscape better than you do. </p>
<p>Also, for us homeschooling was not a problem, as we were registered with a homeschool “school” and they sent out transcripts, SAT scores, etc…</p>
<p>Good luck to him.</p>