Hi, folks, I’m new to the music world and need some help. My son (hs junior) has been sort of planning to major in computer science. But he’s recently become very interested in music composition ( especially electronic / digital / video game music) and thinks he might want to study music comp instead. Or maybe double major in CS and music comp. I am wondering how realistic it is for him to be admitted to a music program, and what he should be considering at
this point. He’s had about 10 years of piano lessons but hasn’t been too serious until recently, so he’s a solid player, but is not going to knock the socks off of anyone in a college audition. He also plays oboe and percussion in school band, but is kind of average there. He’s taking AP music theory - I think this is when he really got interested - he loves the class and is making an A in it. We recently hired a music comp teacher (PhD student) to give him some comp lessons, and he’s excited about starting those. He is thinking he might like U N. Texas or UT Austin (we live in Tx). He will be a Natl Merit Semifinalist and is strong enough academically that he can probably get into CS at UT (and yes I know how competitive that is). I have NO idea what it takes ro get into a good college music program. Can you all give me some advice, please? THANK YOU!
Happy to hear he has a teacher. His interest in composition will probably evolve dramatically over the next year - as he learns more about the field, which may put into perspective what he thinks he knows now via video games and movies. He will need a portfolio of three pieces to submit in the fall, at least two performed acoustically and generally for a variety of instrumentation. I would also recommend he go to a summer program where he can immerse himself in composition and be surrounded by other likeminded students. Deadlines are approaching or have already passed, so you’d want to get on that right away.
As for schools, he should look into CSU Long Beach which has a conservatory that is welcoming to newer composition students, and is open to film/media/tech scoring AND has a full ride scholarship for National Merit, I believe. Alternatively, he can also always take composition classes in college while majoring in CS. Most of the strongest undergrad composition departments are focused on concert music rather than video game composing. But there are programs which specialize in the more technically based composition - PAT at U Michigan might suit him very well - if he can develop a strong enough portfolio to be competitive. It has a number of different tracks. Indiana also has a music technology focused composition program. His NMF status will help with admission and merit scholarships at both schools.
More later. And I know @compmom will chime in.
For a composition application for a BM, usually he will need 3-4 pieces in a portfolio, preferably performed (though electronics are often included as options). The portfolio includes both scores and recordings. It really makes no difference how long he has been composing: for a BM program the music is the main thing. Some schools have instrumental auditions for composers, others don’t. And theory tests tend to be for placement.
So I just looked up UNT, which is somewhat renowned for its electroacoustic program at the grad level.
Undergrad composers do NOT submit a portfolio but come in as music BA students and have requirements to get through before being admitted as a BM composition student in the music school. UNT does have an electronic/media major. Here are details from the website that you may have seen:
http://composition.music.unt.edu/admissions/undergraduate
Undergraduate Application Procedures
New Students
Undergraduate students interested in declaring composition as a major will audition on their concentration instrument or voice during one of the scheduled audition dates; application and audition procedures are available on the College of Music website. There is no portfolio requirement for new undergraduate composition students. Once accepted to the College of Music, prospective composition majors must meet with the academic advisor during one of the summer orientation sessions prior to admission. Any student accepted to the College of Music may initiate studies in the undergraduate composition program through open enrollment in Beginning Composition I-II (MUCP 1180-1190); prospective composition majors will be admitted to the Bachelor of Arts degree in Music, and may be considered for the Bachelor of Music degree in Composition once they have met the following requirements:
- Completion of MUCP 1180-1190 with no grade lower than B.
- Completion of MUTH 1400-1410 and 1500-1510 with no grade lower than B.
- Successful completion of the Freshman Barrier Examination.
- Acceptance at the concentration level on an instrument or voice.
- Continuous enrollment in a music laboratory.
- Regular attendance at composition division events, including Music Now.
- Consent of the composition faculty.
Students who meet all of the above requirements may be coded as “Music Composition” (MUCP), but are considered provisional composition majors until they have successfully completed the undergraduate composition jury at the end of the sophomore year.
The university itself will have computer science. He could major in computer science and do music classes, he could major in composition/electronic/media and do computer science classes, he could look into a double major or a double degree (5 years usually). Music and computer science are both sequential subjects with set sequences so they may be hard to combine, but it is probably doable. There are a lot of intersections to the two subjects these days.
UT Austin has the Butler Music School and does require a portfolio of 3-5 pieces , but no instrumental audition for BM Composition students. BA compositions students do have to audition. The same mix with computer science is possible. And they have a good electronic studio.
http://music.utexas.edu/apply/undergraduate-admissions/freshman
For both schools, you apply to both the university and the music school. Possible advantage at UNT, depending on his progress with a teacher now, is that there is no portfolio requirement and some time to develop in order to get into the BM program. In other words, he would not need any pieces to submit and could enter through the university at first. Advantage at UT Austin is that he could get right to it, if he is admitted, and also no instrumental audition.
You will find that the devil is in the details and websites are the key to this!
For an example of a technology- oriented composition major, check out Brown’s music composition site. There are other options that are more studio-oriented, more pop than classical and so on. Look also at Oberlin, Hartt, Ithaca, and Michigan. Others may chime in with other suggestions.
If your son is undecided and is blossoming as a composer at a fast rate, he can apply to programs for computer science, programs for music composition (w/good technology/electronics) or some combination of the two, and then decide in April of senior year. There are a lot of ways to do this.
Also be aware that a music/arts supplement can sometimes significantly enhance an application to many schools, including Ivies.
I actually cross-posted with Spirit Manager 
This essay about different types of music study is often helpful to people as they start out: http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html
Schools often mentioned for double degree programs are Oberlin, Lawrence, Bard (where students in the conservatory must do a double degree), Tufts/NEC, Harvard/NEC, Eastman/Rochester, Peabody/Johns Hopkins, Michigan, Ithaca…and there are others.
Some of these are primarily classical, and sometimes an undergrad composer does a foundational program before moving on to specific film, game or other media work at the grad level. Check out Oberlin’s TIMARA program to see a conservatory electroacoustic (and more) program.
Columbia College of Chicago may have a program for composing for video games, or Cal Arts, or Berklee- you would have to look it up.
Thank you both so much! I can’t tell you how helpful this is!
UNT is a great choice for a composition program for your son since one does not enter UNT as a composition major. After going through the prerequisites as so nicely set forth by Compmom, one earns their right to major in composition. The downside to not entering as a comp major and thus no portfolio requirement is that entrance is based on the instrumental audition with potential comp majors given no difference in treatment. If your son auditions on piano, he will be held to a high standard as it is a very competitive piano applicant pool. UNT is very strong in electronic and computer based music. Keep up the private comp lessons and focus on the piano or other instrument for which he auditions. As was also said above, a summer comp program would be useful. If SMU is within reach, I think it would be a better choice than UT from a composition standpoint. They do have a portfolio and instrument audition requirement, but with the help of your son’s private comp teacher, I think your son would have a chance to meet the standard.
If he decided to forgo academics and go to a pure conservatory, look at this program at San Francisco Conservatory: https://www.sfcm.edu/tac. And, yes, in that case - Berklee & Cal Arts are good alternatives. NYU is one of the few programs which offers film scoring as an undergrad composition track. Most composers study film/video scoring after undergrad - once they’ve mastered the basics. Or they just leap into it without any particular technical prep.
I second SMU. There was a poster on this forum whose son went there for composition and he was quite happy. I believe there was good financial & merit aid, as well. You might also check out Arizona State which offers merit awards for National Merit and has a strong music department and a great Honors College. There are really so many good choices out there for relatively beginning composition students - as long as you understand the study of music composition in college is academic - theory, ear training, music history, orchestration, counterpoint etc. And that it’s not usually using computers except purely for notation purposes - with the exception of electroacoustic or electronic music study which is a different animal entirely than writing music for video games.
Maybe check out Tufts for CS. The composition professor there works with kids of all majors, and the music extracurriculars have a high percentage of participation among all students. He could most likely get pieces played in Tufts concerts for student composers. That is one way to go, or an example of one way to go.
This thread is so helpful - Thank you everyone for providing feedback to the original question! I am in the same position she was in - Just one year later. We are also in Texas, and my son is interested in UNT. I do have a question. In reading about all the instrumental auditions, is a student’s voice ever considered an instrument?
What did you guys decide on for your son? We are in Texas as well, and in the exact same position today as you were in with your son one year ago! Can you tell me how you planned college visits and where you guys visited? Also, we are in a 6A school district but there is no AP Music Theory class offered. Did your son take it through his district or online? And how did the private composing classes fair? Thank you for your help - Hope you get this!
Hello ABrown0719. You could try to private message Texasmom2017. Are you able to do that yet?
Our school didn’t have any AP music theory either. It is okay to take it online. Is there a conservatory prep or music school nearby? Don’t worry too much. The background in piano and theory makes school easier but the testing at auditions is for placement only. And of course theory helps composition. Has your son done theory other than the AP class? The AP class doesn’t really mean that the student can bypass beginning theory at wherever he lands. Schools have their own curriculum for theory and often it is good to start at the beginning of the sequence anyway. So really any way to get a background (including a piano teacher willing to teach some theory) can help.
Every school’s auditions seem to be a little different. Certainly some will have voice as the instrument. For a composer who is auditioning, they just want to see that you can contribute to the required chorus or ensemble, at least at some places. It is also possible to apply to school that have no instrumental audition at all for composition students: in fact, some of the top conservatories and music schools don’t. Some composition students don’t play at all.
Conservatories and music schools will want a portfolio, and some will have an audition, for a BM program. For a BA program, often there is no audition (there are schools that do have them) but the student can submit a music supplement to the common application with a sample of his best work, a music resume, recommendations from music teachers and directors and so on.
UNT is a great school at the grad level for composition and very very strong in electroacoustic work.
Are you familiar with all the options for studying music? Is your son interested in any academic area as well or is he drawn to focus on music only? There are BA and BM programs in music, double majors, double degrees, major/minors and more. Composers seem to be able to do a college BA and go on to grad school, but a BM program is great if they are highly focused. The essay above on this music forum entitled “Double Degree Dilemma” does a nice job of covering the options.
Good luck and come back with more questions if the original poster you were trying to contact does not answer.
@ABrown0719 @compmom Thx for reaching out. My son just finished his college apps - yay! I’m not sure I can explain why my son chose the schools he did, but he applied to Oberlin, Boston U, Norrtheastern, UT Austin, UNT, Oklahoma, and Trinity. There is no one school that was a perfect match and each has pros/cons. We knew Oberlin was a long shot for music, and in fact, he’s already been told that he was not selected for an interview. NEU might be be the best CS/music combo (they actually have a degree in CS and music composition!) but he seems partial to UT, UNT, and OU, based on his visits there. He tried to apply only to schools that did not require comp majors to audition, but he really liked UNT and applied even though he will have to audition (piano). (The otherr schools wanted portfolios, not auditions.) My son took AP music theory at his school, and his teacher recommended a private comp teacher/coach (grad student) so he’s had 6-8 months of those lessons. Bottom line is, it’s very hard to find a college that’s a good match for both CS and music. At least 1 school (Indiana) told him flat out that he can’t do both. ABrown, if your son wants to do both, I suggest taking a close look at Northeastern. I should mention that my son wants to do commercial music (games and possibly film scores etc.) and that’s another challenge since many of the good schools are focused on concert type music. Please let me know if you have any questions that I might be able to answer.
Many undergrad programs are based on the idea that composition students should first get a foundation, before going on to do games or scoring There are exceptions of course. Berklee is the best known. USC has a renowned grad program in film scoring, for instance, but undergrads do a classical composition program first.
Doing CS and composition might mean a 5 year double degree at some of those schools. Otherwise, it would have to be a school with few or no distribution requirements. Both music and CS are intense and sequential curricula.
Here is the Northeastern program I think you are referring to: http://www.northeastern.edu/camd/music/academic-programs/bs-in-music-composition-and-technology/ This is not a CS program, it is a music technology program. Brown has a program for both undergrad and grad like this, and also has no distribution requirements. Most schools will have this component in their composition programs. UNT is particularly strong and is well-known for this area of composition at the grad level, and I assume it spills over to undergrads.
There is another thread right now on music technology, a term that means many things. In the Northeastern program, it refers to an area of composition, not recording technology, audio engineering, that kind of thing.
Here is text from the NEU site:
“The B.S. In Music Composition and Technology, rooted primarily in the Western art music tradition, focuses on composition for acoustic and electronic instruments, and for combined and/or interactive live and digital sources, while exploring ways in which the art form continues to challenge and enhance our notion of composition, performance and music as integral forces in the cultures we encounter.”
This is very very different from CS.
Again, most schools will have this kind of work in their composition classes. Some have programs or a techie strand in their composition curriculum. Basically, a student can go to many schools and gain experience in electronic/electroacoustic music. This is often classical-based work that is enhanced by electronics, sometimes entirely electronic and produced in the studio (sometimes by recording ordinary sounds and manipulating them). Spatialization with many speakers is also a part of this kind of thing.
Most people have never heard this kind of music. I just went to two HYDRA concerts at Harvard , where the audience is surrounded by speakers and the pieces are quite avant-garde. I believe I was the only audience member not in academia!
I think that looking at a CS major, course requirements and so on, will make the difference clear.
ps Oberlin’s TIMARA (Technology in Music and Related Arts) program is another example http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/index.shtml
Hi. You have gotten a lot of helpful advice so far! My child switch to composition very late in the process - around March/April of his junior year in high school. He began lessons in June. So, the short answer is your son is not too late to switch to composition.
I can tell you more offline if you want to PM me.
@compmom Just to clarify, the Northeastern degree that my son is interested in is BS in Computer Science / Music Composition and Technology. It’s in the CS dept. www.cccis…northeastern.edu/program/bs-combined-major-for-computer-science-and-music-composition-and-technology
Wow - I looked at the plan of study for that major http://catalog.northeastern.edu/undergraduate/computer-information-science/computer-information-science-combined-majors/computer-science-concentration-music-composition-technology-bs/#planofstudytext - only four non music electives in five years of study! This is crucial - especially for a very bright curious student like your son - think deeply about whether or not your son would benefit from such a narrow focus for five years. Most composition students, in my opinion, benefit from being able to explore wherever their fancy may take them at the time.
Haven’t read all the posts but, just as an FYI, one of my son’s friends is doing CS and music at Michigan. We ran into him over the holidays and he pronounced it as being “REALLY tough” so far (he’s a freshman.)
His friend describes it as “double majoring” and my impression is that he applied to and was accepted to both schools during the application process and could double-degree but that the typical scenario is that most students eventually end up choosing to pursue only one of the degrees.
Texasmom I was out all morning and had this thread on my mind: I thought I must be mistaken! I am so glad you corrected me and let us all know about this option at Northeastern, which I have never seen mentioned and is, at least on the surface, a godsend for the many students who are interested in both CS and music. Apologies!
The music curriculum covers the usual theory sequence and one big course on music history and otherwise has a lot of electronics etc., The CS courses don’t seem to have the physics and math classes in some CS curricula but I think it looks great.
This curriculum is very practical and, combined with Northeastern’s coop program, should lead in some interesting job directions or grad school.
Thanks so much for bringing this to everyone’s attention!!
ps my son majored in CS and his boss in Silicon Valley has a master’s in music theory!
Thanks for all of your comments - you’ve been so helpful. No idea what my son will end up doing, in college or after, but at least he has some options. Thanks again.