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a 4.0 from a state school is certanly better than a 2.0 from harvard, in the same major, but I dont know about CC.
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<p>You're unlikely to get a good job at all if you graduate with a 2.0, regardless of whether it's Harvard or some other top school. And a 4.0 community college GPA is the clear winner here since that doesn't get you a job but the opportunity to transfer into a top school. ;)</p>
<p>I agree with the general consensus...that at least for liberal arts-y majors, departmental rankings are relatively unimportant. For engineering, architecture, computer science, etc., and for those special med programs, I understand choosing the program that is better in your major...but I would hope that those kids are damn sure that that's what their major will be before they choose a school where there is a big dropoff between their program and many of the school's other programs. Plus, I always have to contend with my own bias, which favors a liberal arts education...I always hope that students choose a broader education rather than a narrower one, but I think that this is actually relatively rare among the country's college students as a whole. </p>
<p>This is an interesting discussion for me, because it is one that I have been having with my classmates for the past several months, since they largely think that I am crazy/a snob to be focused on a liberal arts, private school education. They are very much locked in to the botttom line: a relatively cheap school that is good enough to get them a good job. Quite frankly, they tend to not be that interested in the learning along the way, or at least they are uninterested in the learning outside their major. They're not wrong...they just have a different opinion of what a college education is. Unfortunately, they seemed reluctant to acknowledge that there are other ways to look at a college education that are also correct, but hey. We can't all agree all the time. </p>
<p>(PS: I am reluctant to say this, because I believe that it is important not to overvalue a prestigious name, but in the case of an Ivy grad with a low GPA...the Ivy name does carry plenty of weight. He didn't get a 2.0, but my father took the 6 year plan to graduate from Princeton--because he had to take a leave of abscence to pull himself together and figure out how to not be a perfectionist and actually turn in work--and I doubt that his overall GPA was particularly impressive (he didn't graduate with honors, at least). Keeping in mind that this was in the pre-grade inflation era, my father was still able to gain entrance into a prestigious MArch program--Rice--and get hired by a good Architecture firm. So...yeah. Going to a prestigious school always helps somewhat).</p>
<p>I'm not 100% sure about this, but guys are you aware that most students have a GPA above 3.0 at top schools like Harvard and MIT? I know that is true for MIT</p>
<p>Exactly. Someone that got a 2.0 at Harvard would have had to put little to no effort into school, which goes back to the old SAT vs. GPA debate. Do employers/grad schools want students that are really smart but incredibly lazy? No. A CC student with a 4.0 may not be as intelligent as the Harvard student but has shown dedication.</p>
<p>Here are my two cents. No one really cares about prestige. Get over your pretenses. Vapid and pedantic dialogues about "prestige" and "reputation" polute this forum incessantly. Once you get a job, its all about your performance. I don't care if you went to Harvard or Bunker Hill CC, you'll be fired if you don't perform well. So, the only reason to worry about the name of a school is for job placement and salaries, look at those for the majors you see yourself doing for the rest of your life. For all the "Lost" people who need to find themselves in a liberal arts college, stop your self indulgence, no one changes that much. If you don't think you like something now, you probably never will. As long as you do well at a top 50 college, you'll probably do well in life. If it is something very specific, check the stats on the individual program. I am not saying it is easier to succeed in life with a generic college degree, but it is mostly performance and who you know, not what you know! Other than special majors or especially notable departments, like Gtown's foreign service or Claremont's economics, choose the cheapest school! That's it I'm done, and if I never see the words "prestige" or "reputation" it will be to soon!</p>
<p>Well, yeah...a 2.0 is so low as to be silly. It's also not really the point of the thread.</p>
<p>true dat. </p>
<p>as to the main topic, I would go for the better school overall. UT-Austin has one of the best engineering programs but I think most people would still choose Harvard.</p>
<p>If the student is undecided about his/her major, then school reputation should be primary.</p>
<p>However, if you're certain about your career objectives, then you should choose the school that has the strongest program in your field because you want the best preparation for your career. No school is strong in every field, contrary to what many people believe.</p>
<p>I also believe many employers are knowledgeable about the schools having the best programs in their field.</p>
<p>brand_182, congratulations on choosing Wesleyan. I was also contemplating whether to attend NYU but it's too expensive and decided not to accept their offer of admission.</p>
<p>Here are my two cents. No one really cares about prestige. Get over your pretenses. Vapid and pedantic dialogues about "prestige" and "reputation" polute this forum incessantly. Once you get a job, its all about your performance. I don't care if you went to Harvard or Bunker Hill CC, you'll be fired if you don't perform well.</p>
<p>the essence of the discussion, my friend, is whether you can bag that job even before you get fired. that said, a smart employer will be able to know when a graduate from a reputable specialized school in a not-so-prestigious comes knocking on his door for a job. </p>
<p>someone i know chose IUB over Tufts, though the latter has better name recognition. he's gunning for the business school at IUB, and all the big firms recruit there. </p>
<p>so i say, if you want to work for an employer who truly knows the value of an education you spent four years of your life on, you do not have to worry whether the school you are choosing does not have that much of a name-recognition.</p>
<p>The only problem with completely discounting name brand is that it DOES matter, if only a little. It will affect admission to top graduate programs and it has an effect on one's ability to get into cream of the cream of the crop jobs.</p>
<p>Now, if neither one of those matter to you, then bully for you and you're just fine. If it does matter, however, then you have to be realistic about name brand's effects.</p>
<p>UCLAri, if one has an intention to be a meteorologist, has a B.A. in Meteorology, and is applying for a graduate degree in meteorology, then the admission officials at that graduate school should know the best schools in meteorology and may give an edge to those schools. However, this reasoning may not apply to every situation.</p>
<p>But then you're going back to name brand, if only in a niche market.</p>
<p>Just as I believe that it is silly to become obsessive about this vague notion of prestige that leads people into gigantic arguments about Top Unis vs. Top LACs and how the #8 school is SO much better than the #10 or the #15 or whatever, I also believe that it is foolish to claim that prestige does not exist and does not matter at all. It's somewhere in between, in my opinion. Are there plenty of duds from HYPMS, etc? Sure, and no, these people won't by and large skate ahead of the numerous other qualified workers/applicants from a wide variety of schools. But is a name meaningless...no, I don't believe that, if for no other reason than the fact those top schools (and my definition, while relatively narrow, extends far beyond just the Ivies) really do offer fabulous overall educations. Now, this is not to say that they are light-years better than other upper tier schools, or that they are the only places that one can attend and succeed in life, or anything like that. But the point stands: these are great schools, and grad schools and employers will largely know that.</p>
<p>UCLAri, what I meant is the best programs in the field, not schools. I apologize for the confusion. </p>
<p>The school with the best program in meteorology is school Q, even though the best school in general is school P. The admissions committee may favor the one applicant from school Q, as they believe him/her is best prepared to undertake graduate study in meteorology, as opposed the applicant from school P with insufficient training in meteorology.</p>
<p>Right, but that's still going for name brand-- only now you're attempting to secure the name brand of a niche market. It's the same thing, just on a smaller scale.</p>
<p>MikeU wrote:</p>
<p>Note this is hypothetical:</p>
<p>"UCLAri, what I meant is the best programs in the field, not schools. I apologize for the confusion. </p>
<p>The school with the best program in meteorology is school Q (Penn State), even though the best school in general is school P (Princeton). The admissions committee may favor the one applicant from school Q (Penn State), as they believe him/her is best prepared to undertake graduate study in meteorology, as opposed the applicant from school P (Princeton) with insufficient training in meteorology."</p>
<p>Do you believe the admissions committee would accept the student from Princeton over Penn State, though the latter has the stronger program in meteorology?</p>
<p>If the committee chooses the Princeton applicant, then reputation was more important. </p>
<p>You may be right. I am a novice regarding how admissions committees select some of their students.</p>
<p>I think it's necessary to go to the school with the better program. Hardly anyone cares about what undergraduate school you go to. You should learn first and care about reputation later.</p>
<p>Yes, and the point is that Penn State IS a name brand in the niche market of meteorology.</p>
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think it's necessary to go to the school with the better program. Hardly anyone cares about what undergraduate school you go to. You should learn first and care about reputation later.
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<p>Except that my undergrad name brand has been a focal point of many interviews...</p>
<p>After reading through most of this thread I've noticed that people are saying go for the more prestigious school because you might change your major. Well, what if you're a transfer student and you don't really have that luxury anymore? I say go with a balance. If you're choosing b/w two top 25 schools and one is significantly better for what you want to do, then go with the significantly better specialized school. If the difference is only slight, go with the more prestigious one - NAME MATTERS. And other than that - go with fit. I think fit is so important because I want to go to college for the experience - the people, the life, the fun of it all. I'm not stressing that if I don't do so hot in one or too classes my future employer will look at me with disdain. Have FUN - you're employer probably did. </p>
<p>Sure Yazz, when you're hired and actually working then people will only look at your performance. Having a name brand degree won't let you KEEP a job if you suck, but it will help you GET a job. If nothing else, it's a conversation piece. Another way to look at is:</p>
<p>If you have two job applicants with very similar GPA's, backgrounds, experiences, etc. and one has CHARM and the other DOESN'T - who will get the job? Probably the one with charm even though it's completely meaningless when it comes to the job. Same with the name brand - people will go with something more familiar and thought to be of a higher quality 9 times out of 10.</p>
<p>People do care where you went for undergrad especially if you haven't been to grad school. Why WOULDN'T they care? This is just a phrase people use to discredit undergraduate degrees - where you go is tied to four years of one of the most forumalative periods of your life. Tell me who the heck would this is irrelevant and why.</p>