We are having a difficult time trying to decide on daughter choosing to play soccer at a Patriot league school or an Ivy League. EFC at Ivy has us paying about 200,000 over 4 years. She was offered full ride to one school and Ivy is recruiting her also. Not sure if its worth the debt to obtain an Ivy degree. Thoughts from others who have been through this? Daughter wants Ivy but we are hesitant to give up a full scholarship. She likes both schools but feels like she doesn’t want to give the chance to go to an Ivy League because so many of her nonathletic friends would do anything to get admitted.
I think the decision is purely between you and your D. As well as how much of a financial burden the 200K will place on your financial health. I’m sure she’ll get a great education at either place and ultimately end up being very happy. However, the Ivy brand sometimes can carry a lot of weight when it comes to future endeavors, such as grad schools, jobs, etc. My DS will be attending one of the HYP as a recruit, but unfortunately without a penny in aid or scholarship. From a non-Ivy div 1 school would have been given a full ride. However, it was a personal choice we as a family had made, and fortunately something we can afford to do.
Tough situation. I could maybe go different ways, depending on the specific Ivy/Patriot schools involved.
For example, if it was $200k for Cornell vs. a full ride at Colgate, I would definitely lean Colgate.
On the other hand, If it was $200k for Princeton vs. a full ride at Loyola Maryland, I would have to think a lot harder about it.
Congrats on your D having such wonderful choices. It sounds like both schools are good fits so I would factor in things like:
–What you can comfortably afford with little/no debt.
–Post college plans – if she expects to go to grad school could money saved undergrad pay for that?
–The actual schools involved (as noted above).
–Is she 100% sure she will want to play soccer through the four years of college (she would be less tied to it at the Ivy school since there is no athletic scholarship).
Make the best decision for your family and your D without regards to what her friends think (believe me many would be thrilled to get a full ride and a very good Patriot League school as well).
@Soccer2021 Congrats on D’s great options. It is tough to answer this without knowing (1) which Patriot League school, (2) which Ivy League school, (3) how good of an academic, social, and soccer fit each school would be, and (4) what is your financial situation. Going into debt is not good, so I would probably opt for the Patriot school (depending on the schools of course). There are some Ivy schools – maybe as many as six of the eight – that I would not want my kid do attend for fit reasons. There also is a wide range within the Patriot. I do not think an Ivy degree confers any magic and some kids would be better served at other schools (I say this as an Ivy grad). How important is prestige to your daughter? What are her career goals? She may thrive more and end up better going to the Patriot – especially if they Ivy is not a fit for her. Bottom line, going into debt is generally a bad idea and would negatively impact your retirement and could hamstring your daughter – especially if she wants to go to grad school.
I will say that the sentiment of she “doesn’t want to give the chance to go to an Ivy League because so many of her nonathletic friends would do anything to get admitted” is not a good reason to attend an Ivy, especially if the school would not be a good match for her. I have a kid who likely will be competitive at schools like MIT and Cal Tech, but they may not be the right place for him even if he gets in. Going to good school and excelling is better than going to a “better” school and not having a good experience there.
Alternatively, if the plan is to start working right after college, would it be in a field where an Ivy brand matters?
For example, suppose the plan is to get an engineering degree, followed by an engineering job after graduation. In that case, I would definitely lean towards a free engineering degree from Lehigh over a $200,000 engineering degree from Dartmouth.
On the other hand, if the goal is to get a degree in economics, followed by a career in investment banking after graduation, then the $200,000 Dartmouth degree could be the way to go.
Sorry lets say Lehigh or Lafayette versus Columbia. She’s interested in computer science degree
Lehigh is a top Patriot League school for engineering and computer science. If you can get a Lehigh CS degree for free, versus taking on $200,000 of debt to get the Columbia name and the NYC experience, then I would lean Lehigh.
Note, by the way, that the Lehigh Engineering and Business Schools jointly offer an unusual four-year “Computer Science and Business” program that is dual-accredited by ABET (for CS) and AACSB (for business). That program, (along with the similar “Integrated Business and Engineering Program”) is supposed to be significantly more competitive than Lehigh as a whole; it wouldn’t surprise me if CSB and IBE approach an Ivy level of selectivity. If CSB interests her, and if she can get a full ride into that program, then I would definitely lean Lehigh. No idea if the coaches have the pull to guarantee admission into that specific program though; they might not.
Lafayette would be a tougher call, because it is not as well known as Lehigh for engineering or CS. Lafayette is more commonly thought of as a liberal arts college. The CS program appears to be much smaller than the programs at Lehigh or ColumbiaL However, it has ABET accreditation (which is optional for CS, but a positive sign), and Lafayette as a whole has a strong reputation for undergraduate education. My suspicion is that a free Lafayette CS degree could be a better deal than a $200,000 Columbia CS degree, but I would want to learn more about the Laf program before making that decision.
Do you have to borrow the money for Columbia? Does your D LOVE the city? Can you afford all the extra costs living in NYC brings?
Does your D like the idea of a very broad core curriculum like Columbia has (my kids hated broad core colleges).?
Is Columbia the ACTUAL school?
Do you get the scholarship if D is injuried or doesn’t want to play? Is the scholatship fixed for 4 years? What is the GPA requirement if any?
I would start by making sure that it is truly a full ride. Women’s soccer is not a headcount sport. I think there are only 14 scholarships for the whole team. If it is indeed a full ride, then it goes to affordability of the Ivy. If that $200,000 is going to be paid through loans, that is a pretty hefty burden. Are there other children in the family?
What does the NPC indicate for both schools (or., Without the soccer aspect)?
“she doesn’t want to give the chance to go to an Ivy League because so many of her nonathletic friends would do anything to get admitted.”
Definitely don’t go to a school because friends wish they had the chance to go there. There are indeed huge numbers, millions, of high school students who dream of going to an Ivy League school. The vast majority of them would probably hate it if they actually attended one as a full time student.
Whether this makes sense for your daughter is going to depend upon a lot of things. Very high on the list will be what she wants to major in, and what the extra cost would do to your family.
There are a very small number of industries, investment banking being the most obvious, where the “prestige” of where you do your undergrad actually matter. For most industries, it really doesn’t matter at all. For computer science Harvard might be better than your local community college, but frankly you will probably do as well or better with a degree from U.Mass Amherst rather than Harvard (and yes, I have worked with software engineers from both schools).
For career paths that require graduate school, in most cases where you do your undergrad doesn’t matter much. There are plenty of students who do their undergrad at their in-state public flagship (or #4 or #5 in California) and go on to top selective schools such as Stanford or MIT or Ivy League for graduate school.
$200,000 is a LOT of money.
My son had full scholarship offers from most of the Patriot School’s and all of the Ivy League Schools. I was actually gently prodding him to commit to William and Mary who would red-shirt him giving him 5 years of paid school and a one year Master’s Degree. We took a number of visit’s and he fell in love with the coaches and players at one of Ivy’s and ended up committing. He is a couple of months from finishing his Freshman Year and he could not be happier with his choice. He thanks his mom and me every week for allowing him to make this decision and we couldn’t more pleased knowing he is at the right place for him. After finishing up your visit’s you will have a tough decision to make but consider yourself lucky that your daughter has such incredible options.
Lafayette is a LAC with Engineering…so that is a cool option to. WIth those I would definitely pick a Patriot over 200K
OP – do you envision traveling to watch your daughter’s matches?
We had to make a similar decision of a few years ago and my son ended up at the Ivy. It has worked out really well but we do travel to see him compete and it never occurred to me to build those costs into the budget.
How would you be paying the $200K? Is it all debt? If it is are you willing to pay it? It is too much for her to repay. $200K on a 10 year loan is a payment of $2k/month. Do you have other kids that will be going to college? How is your reirement savings? Do you have other debt? Not looking for you to answer all these questions here, but they are things that you need to think about. This can affect your whole family. Now, if you have $150k in a 529 earmarked for her, that is a different story.
I am sort of in the same place as @rockfish1906. My son had a few options in the Patriot League, none were full rides although the scholarships offered were generally very generous. He also was fortunate enough to have some options in the Ivy. Although the financial aid in the Ivy is insanely good, it was still a more expensive option, although in our case the cost difference was less than half of the 200k your family is facing. He picked the Ivy, and three years in I am confident he would make the same decision again. His mother and I would as well, because for him the school he chose (Princeton) was absolutely the right place, and frankly, that is what we put the money away for in the first place.
On the other hand, he had a high school teammate who made the opposite choice, picking Colgate over Columbia, Cornell and (I think) Brown. That kid is also very happy with the choice he made.
As a former scholarship athlete at a Patriot school, I would make sure your daughter is prepared for the fact that as a scholarship athlete, she will be beholden to the team to a much greater degree in the Patriot than in the Ivy. While the Patriot is not the SEC and generally does a great job of blending academics and athletics, she will still be paid to attend because of her skill on the pitch. Women’s soccer is not a head count sport afaik, so there is the risk of variability in the money allocated year to year as well. So what happens if she feels her academics are suffering because of her athletic commitment? What happens if she doesn’t develop as the coaches anticipate, or if an injury makes her less effective? What about a coaching change where the new coach plays a completely different style? What happens if she just doesn’t like playing division 1 soccer? The one great advantage of the Ivy is that it pretty much takes all of those questions off the table.
Most parents and kids assume that the athletic arc will continue through college, and because a kid has enjoyed/been successful at her sport through high school this pattern will continue. But college sports, especially D1 sports, are very different. You and your daughter should think through what the risks are of taking the scholly and have athletics go sideways, because that happens in college. Not to everyone, but way more often than most people who haven’t been through it think.
At the end of the day, it is manifestly a personal decision, and frankly I think depends on the actual schools/programs involved as much as anything. Best of luck to you both.
As @Ohiodad51 points out, that $200k is buying something from your student. If you think of it in terms of an annual $50k salary to play her sport, it’s a two edged sword that’s both thrilling and a potential burden. It’s flattering but not guaranteed, uplifting today but kind of a drag when you can’t study abroad in a few years. And women’s soccer does have a pretty high incidence of injury compared to other NCAA sports (lots of knees) so not playing isn’t a completely hypothetical concern. Read that cautionary post again and make sure you’ve talked to some D1 athletes who can paint the complete picture. If playing D1 has been a dream and it’s all she’s ever wanted then you’re probably OK, but some more well-rounded kids don’t get it until they’re in it and the lifestyle can chafe.
Also, grad school can be expensive so $200k is a really awesome starting point. Situations vary, so weigh your options. Good luck.