If UM is no better than MSU, you are very close to saying UM is no better than OSU! Careful now!
She should choose, eyes wide open. Lots of kids like MSU better.
Hotbed of intellectualism? That’s funny to imagine. It’s more of a work hard party hard kind of school:)
There are clear difference in overall student body, academic departments, research funding, alumni network, and reputation between the two school. There is no doubt about it. While certain programs and certain students at MSU can be really outstanding though. Besides the current publicity issues at MSU, I actually have some concerns with international students from certain background in recent years that I would not send my kid there. In any case, it is up to the student (and perhaps parent too) to see if the school is a good fit or not. It does not really matter what the outside world or other people think about it.
The vibe between the two is so different. Visit both. You’ll know right away which is a fit.
“It is also highly questionable saying UM provides the same undergraduate experience as Ivy League schools which all have under 10,000 undergraduates except Cornell and Penn (which is barely above 10K) whereby UM is pushing 30K undergrads (while MSU is currently just under 39K).”
I have degrees from both Michigan (undergraduate) and Cornell (graduate). I think I am in a position to compare the two Quincy. If I say that those two are very similar, it is based on experience, not opinion. Just because Michigan is twice larger than Cornell does not mean they are not alike. Michigan’s student body is twice larger, but so is its endowment, budget, and faculty. 7 of Cornell’s 14 presidents were Michigan faculty. Obviously, there are cultural and operational similarities between those two schools.
“I think throwing around SAT scores and stereotypes (esp from an obviously bias POV as yours) isn’t productive for students who are assessing what’s best for themselves in terms of academic settings, especially viz a viz among 2 state schools that are both so highly esteemed both locally and internationally.”
I have noticed that you lump all public universities together. Would you say that Fordham and Columbia are peers simply because both are private? Or Syracuse and Cornell? Or Harvard and BU? Just because Michigan and MSU are both public does not mean they are similar. No more than UVa and Virginia Tech or Cal and UC Davis are similar. Michigan’s endowment is almost four times larger than MSU’s, classes at Michigan tend to be smaller (60% of the classes at Michigan have 20 or fewer students, compared to 30% of the classes at MSU), the ACT/SAT ranges at those two universities do not overlap whatsoever, and the student body tends to be more geographically diverse (50% in state vs 75% in state).
Like I said, MSU is a very good university, and one can easily receive an excellent education there, but Michigan is in a different league.
I don’t know if Michigan is in a different league for undergrads but to have two world class institutions in one state is a blessing. There are majors where MSU excels and majors where Michigan excels. There are other differences which have already been pointed out. Izzo and Fantonio have zero to do with the renegade “doctor” so I highly doubt they will be impacted but tuition may be depending on what kind of payouts will need to be made if it comes to that above and beyond the mental health fund that has already been set aside. As a Michigander I can care about tuition for future students and what happens with taxpayer dollars. I can feel the same about UofM and the risks with their medical staff. The op’s kiddo should choose the uni she feels the most part of and never look back.
Again, as someone who has taken classes, researched, and taught at BOTH universities, I continue to take issue with U of M being significantly better than MSU.
(I was not in the HC at MSU)
But, y’know, carry on with this repetitive, tired debate.
I can’t help but bite here. I think it is better to talk about specifics than an overall which one is better. A broad guideline is the prestige of the undergraduate institution matters more in areas in which one goes directly to the work place than in areas where grad school is expected. My usual example is interviews for the elite consulting firms and investment banks are probably way more accessible at an elite undergrad than even a reasonable state school. However, in something like physics where the plan is to go to grad school, where you went to school will matter less. Physics grad departments almost universally will accept students from large research state universities with strong records and good physics gre scores. Kids meeting those criteria are a smaller fraction of the graduating class at a less super selective university, but there isn’t really a barrier, and they exist.
"Again, as someone who has taken classes, researched, and taught at BOTH universities, I continue to take issue with U of M being significantly better than MSU.
(I was not in the HC at MSU)
But, y’know, carry on with this repetitive, tired debate."
Amen, @romanigypsyeyes…
We all have our preferences, my family turf is half divided and we always debate or argue if you call it.
My daughter was offered a $40,000 scholarship for/from LSA yesterday $-) ! It is making her think more about the opportunities at Michigan. I appreciate everyone’s comments. I know both schools are good, and she would do well at either. Hopefully she figures out which one to pick soon.
Wow, Congratulations!!
Yes, double congrats @3js3ks. I’m sure she will excel wherever she goes.