Choosing Between UPenn and UMich

College Search & Selection
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<p>“No clear advantages besides Penn’s Ivy League reputation”</p>

<p>So the same can be said of Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, MIT, Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, WUSTL etc…Are you saying that they are all inferior to Penn just because they do not have an “Ivy League reputation”</p>

<p>"…smarter students"</p>

<p>If being surrounded by Freshmen with a mid 50% SAT range of 1360-1540 instead of 1280-1480 (30-40 points per section) makes a significant difference to the OP, then yes, Penn is a better option.</p>

<p>"…more diverse undergraduate population"</p>

<p>Not really more diverse. Michigan has 10,000 OOS (5,000 from the Tri-State area, Texas and CA) undergraduate students and 2,000 undergraduate international students. Diversity is not a concern at Michigan.</p>

<p>"…better advising"</p>

<p>Can you prove this? I have never seen evidence of any university having better advising than another. Each student at Michigan and Penn is assigned an academic advisor from day one. </p>

<p>"…and more versatile career placement"</p>

<p>Again, not really. </p>

<p>“You can double major in Computer Science and Economics at Penn and choose between working for investment banks, management consulting firms, and tech firms your senior year of college. The same cannot be said of Michigan where your career will directly correlate with what you study in school. That’s something to keep in mind.”</p>

<p>That is very misleading. The odds of landing a job with an IBank or Management Consulting firm for non Wharton, non-Huntsman, non-Jerome Fisher students are not good. Besides, the OP can easily double major in Business and CS at Michigan. If he truly is “IBanking or Management Consulting material”, then getting into Ross shouldn’t be too difficult. </p>

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<p>I would disagree with the last statement: The odds of landing a job with an IBank or Management Consulting firm for non Wharton, non-Huntsman, non-Jerome Fisher students are not good. </p>

<p>Penn career placement surveys:
<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/reports.php”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/reports.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Look at 2013 Penn Arts and Sciences report: <a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/2013CASFinalReport.pdf”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/files/2013CASFinalReport.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>

</p>

<p>Actually, you were doing quite well until that one. :wink: Students in the College and SEAS at Penn who want those kinds of jobs, do quite well at getting them vis-a-vis their peers at other liberal arts and engineering schools. As has been pointed out many times here, the on-campus recruiting that Wharton draws is also available to other Penn undergrads (it’s all handled out of one undergraduate Career Services office), and Penn’s relative success in placing non-Wharton liberal arts and engineering students in these kinds of jobs is well known. To see that, take a look at the Career Plans Survey Reports for the College going back to 2005, and SEAS going back to 2007 (and the Wharton dual-degree students can be separated out by looking at, e.g., Economics majors who generally are not also Wharton students):</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/reports.php”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/reports.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>But just to be CRYSTAL CLEAR (because this apparently got lost in another thread in which I recently participated), I strongly recommend that at this level of academic excellence (i.e., Penn and Michigan in this thread, and Penn and Chicago in the other thread), a student choose based on personal preference and fit, determined ultimately by gut feeling as to where the student believes he or she would be happiest and would thrive the best both academically and socially.</p>

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<p>There’s no need to twist the argument. The Ivy League reputation was listed as one of many factors in the argument that Penn is a better choice than UM. He did not say that reason alone was enough to indicate UM was inferior.</p>

25

<p>I agree that fit is the big thing here, unless money is an issue. I know kids that love Penn, it 's a favorite school around here, and there isn’t an instant hesitation I would have to tell them to go there. But I have a wonderful son for whom I don’t think Penn would even make the list to apply. Michigan heads it It has everything he likes, and he loves the atmosphere there. The only negs are distance from home and the weather. He looked at UW in Madison, did not like it all. So schools do have their vibes. </p>

26

<p>

You do realize that Huntsman and Jerome Fisher are part of Wharton right? Penn CAS students enjoy similar success to Dartmouth, Duke, Stanford, and Princeton grads on Wall Street although it is not as dominant as Harvard and Wharton. </p>

<p>Penn CAS had 11 hires to Bain, 7 to BCG, 4 to McKinsey, 14 to JPM IBD, 9 to Morgan Stanley I-Banking, and 9 to Goldman Sachs I-Banking. This blows even Michigan’s u-grad business school Ross out of the water. Only 82 of the ~600 respondents from Penn’s CAS in 2013 were dual enrolled in Wharton so no, not all these hires were from Vagelos, Huntsman, or Jerome Fisher.</p>

<p>Michigan liberal arts graduates have almost absolutely zero access to these firms and its possible that no one gets hired from any of these firms (non-engineers and Ross students).</p>

<p>

The OP never expressed any interest in studying undergraduate business did he? I have never heard of anyone succesfully double majoring in Ross and Michigan Engineering and graduating in 4 years either.</p>

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<p>OP, ennisthemenace has a habit of showing up to bash Michigan. I’m not telling you to go to UM, but you may want to weight his opinions a little less heavily than those of some of the other posters.</p>

28

<p>CHD, I did not twist any argument, I addressed each point independently. Most of the points were either blown out of proportion or invalid.</p>

<p>45percenter and quarkerstake, I agree with your posts. I was not suggesting that CAS students have no hope of being hired by those companies, I was merely stating that the odds should not be overstated because the competition will be considerable. Still, I will admit that the odds to land such a job from CAS are better than they are from LSA. However, the odds of getting into Ross as a current student at Michigan are better than the odds of getting into Wharton as a current student at Penn. So if the OP changes his mind and chooses a career in IBanking or Management Consulting, all he needs to do is apply to Ross at the end of his first year. If he is indeed Wall Street/Management Consulting “material”, getting into Ross should be easy. Double majoring in CS and Business at Michigan can be done in 9 semesters without too much hassle. </p>

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<p>That’s funny–I didn’t see quakerstake’s post until just now (although we apparently were on the same wavelength). With this new forum software, you no longer can see subsequent posts while you’re drafting and editing a response to a post. I certainly didn’t mean to pile on, Alexandre. ;)</p>

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<p>Does anyone have any idea what percent of admits to Penn and Michigan choose each school? </p>

<p>That information might be helpful to the OP, but I do not have any idea. I know that Penn’s yield is higher in general, but the numbers could be a lot different when the admit also was accepted to a particular school.</p>

31

<p>Much2learn, are you referring to the yield? I think Penn’s yield is around 63% while Michigan’s is 39%. It is not possible to compare the yields though, since Michigan does not offer good FA to OOS students and also does not rely on ED as many private universities do. For example 50% of Penn’s freshmen class last year were ED. The yield for those students is close to 100%. The yield for non-ED applicants at Penn is probably in the 45% range.</p>

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<p>My son is going to michigan as well</p>

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<p>Go with Penn! Its not that much more expensive and its an ivy. Saving 8K per year for 4 years is not that much. Engineering or CS fresh grads can earn up to 90K per year. So, go with Penn and never look back. :)</p>

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<p>^ $32k saved is a nice down payment on a home. If need to borrow the $32k on student loans, under the standard repayment plan of 10 years at 6.8% interest, is $368/month. </p>

<p>You can earn the same money graduating from Michigan.</p>

35

<p>Hi Alexandre,</p>

<p>I was not referring to yield in its normal sense. </p>

<p>I meant the percent of students that decided to enroll in each school when faced with the same choice between Penn and Michigan. What percent chose Penn and what percent chose Michigan. The schools must track this data so they can understand how they are doing over time against the competition, but I have not seen it.</p>

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<p>There are no official figures. I would guestimate that 75% would choose Penn over Michigan. There is no doubt that Penn would appeal more to most high school students than Michigan. </p>

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<p>One thing I would add about both of these schools is that, in my experience, both Michigan and Penn have very enthusiastic alumni. </p>

<p>OP. What questions do you still have that have not been covered?</p>

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<p>@Much2learn‌ </p>

<p><a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.;

<p>Approximately 85% of high school seniors who picked exclusively between Penn and Michigan chose Penn. I hope that answers your question.</p>

39

<p>I think most of my questions were answered. There has been a lot of talk about gut feeling here and I have also heard it from many of my college friends, so I guess I really just need to figure out what my gut is really saying (I am a very indecisive person, so I guess that answers your questions about whether or not I’m wall street material)</p>

<p>However one thing about Penn that is very appealing in the engineering school is the fact that it is very liberal arts based, where from many I have heard that Michigan focuses strongly on the engineering (STEM) aspects themselves. Could anyone speak on this?</p>

40

<p>andradep, at Michigan, most Engineering students take 30 credits in the Humanities and Social Sciences (including classes at Ross). That’s quite a bit considering the fact that Engineers must take an additional 45 credits in the general sciences (including Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics and CS). That only leaves students with 55 credits of Engineering courses, which is not that heavy. Perhaps current Engineering students at Michigan can chime in.</p>