<p>I am planning on enrolling into Emory next year doing the 3-2 engineering program with Ga Tech and it is recommended to take the entry level bio course. I have heard a lot regarding its difficulty as a "weed out" class and I would appreciate some input as to which teachers of this course are the best and/or easiest.</p>
<p>Sorry, but best and easiest don’t usually go together at Emory. And if you are going to Tech, I recommend you prepare yourself for that challenge. You don’t want to be in shock when you get to Tech. If you do only the easiest and worst profs., you’ll be in real trouble when you get there as most classes there expect a certain level from the intro. courses. The courses there are taught in a way assume that all students took pre-reqs. at Tech, and most of those are much more weedout in nature than Emory’s counterparts. And your math and physics background, if you’re not careful can end up being really weak in comparison to theirs, which is bad for the curves they have. You can at least counterbalance this by getting a good natural science foundation at Emory. I think you can have an advantage over them in that area.
Just take “good” profs. that at least challenge you a little and teach well. And as for biology in general, this is the easiest of the introductory courses and no teacher is “weedout”, all give exams that yield between 77 and 82 averages (sometimes higher). It’s chemistry you may want to fear. Unfortunately there, usually the worst gen. chem professors (usually a researcher or tenure track) that everyone goes to expecting them to be easy, ends up having the lowest averages so just take a “big 3” (Mulford, Weaver, or Mcgill).</p>
<p>And to finally answer your question directly, you should choose Spell, Passalaucqua, or Gilson. Passalaucqua is the easiest (tests are easiest and most leniently graded) of the three I’m thinking. She grades relatively high, but teaches really well. Uses case studies to teach you how to apply the knowledge, which is good exposure if you’re going to do engineering at Tech where it’s mostly pbl anyway. Early exposure in addition to getting no less than a B+ is a good deal. She fills quickly though, so hope for a good enrollment time. Spell should be your runner up. She has gotten easier (but can still write a somewhat challenging exam that requires more than regurgitation) and is a great teacher that will employ a variety of methods to convey material.</p>
<p>@bernie How hard is it to do well at Emory? I’ve taken class at GSU and they’ve been pretty much easy. Study the lectures, listen to some lectures, do homework = doing well on the test= doing well in the course. My friends that attend Tech say that you can study all you want, but there are some professors out to get you by making extremely difficult tests that you can never be prepared for. How does Emory compare between these two schools?</p>
<p>Some classes are more like Tech’s, but most are just in between the two. The ones in between the two challenge you, but in a fair way (as in, they’ll do applied problems but you’ll be taught well enough so that you are prepared). There are some classes that indeed are trying to separate people out like the chem. classes, many of which are tougher than their Tech counterparts. Many of the chem classes either need a curve, bonus points, or a lot of non-test/quiz grade padding to achieve the target B- average. The good profs. in chem (and in even in bio) try to make you apply at a very solid level. As in, there will likely be at least a couple of problems that cover seemingly unseen material and you more or less have to derive the knowledge/concept on the spot (this is McGill’s style). Some in gen. chem keep it fair conceptually, but will make the problems take a long time to solve by adding a crap ton of subparts or some very math intensive problems (this is Mulford and Weavers style). The one advantage of Emory over Tech for intro. classes, however, is that usually the teaching is better and the sections significantly smaller. This means, you can take a more challenging exam than a Tech counterpart but are likely to score better than a friend at Tech on an easier exam. </p>
<p>You can often guage how tough a class is by whether or not it ever gives midterms in the evening. Physics and math at Tech are very difficult and most sections give evening exams. Here 2/3 of gen. chem sections give evening exams (Mulford, 2hrs, Weaver, 1.5 hour. McGill’s exams are challenging, but she is on TTh so they get about the same amount of time as Weaver’s students). Dr. Weinschenk for organic chemistry gives evening exams (he’s generous and will give up to 3-4 hour exams even though they really take 2-2.5hrs for a decently prepped student. The issue is that he gives at least 2-3 problems that function to separate As from Bs. A lot of the Bs who don’t have a clue on those just stay the whole time, often leaving it blank. The A’s who can’t get it just leave, knowing that they got the standard level problems correct, and are likely to beat the average). Soria, when he teaches, gives evening exams (2-2.5 hours). Exams are quite challenging though and eventually most of the exam becomes like Weinschenk’s “separator” problems. This is more like a Tech class than anything else. It requires a lot of hard work and some talent to achieve an A here. Final is very challenging and can ultimately drop most people who went into it with an A. Good teacher, like W, but you have to be willing to work and have your ego bruised at least once or even twice. With that said, W for 221 is quite challenging and even top students who earned A’s in gen. chem may have a learning curve in it. </p>
<p>Bio has a lot of variation. There are some of the GSU type classes you speak of, but many of the better classes and profs. have more competitive students and don’t rely on powerpoints and are more problem/research based and these people write exams similar to what you see in chem. so you must really, really, understand the material. In such bio courses, doing this may a lot of problem solving, engagement with primary lit., etc. Basically doing things to help you anticipate situations on an exam that could otherwise not be predicted. The primary difference between these and chem. courses is that averages are higher (for example, you won’t hear of 60 something averages very often in bio, unless it’s like NBB 301. Even then, it’s rare). Many Emory students are better at bio/ more non-quantitative science courses, so even when a bio course is more difficult than say, bio 141, students do relatively well If these classes had a mandatory lab, then it may be a different story. Lab is the main thing that makes 141/142 difficult. Many of the upperlevels give more difficult exam formats but it’s easier to manage if you aren’t juggling a lab component (many have discussion sections, but these usually reinforce lecture material so actually end up helping some when conducted well).</p>
<p>Warning: Bio 141/142 often have teachers that try to test reading skills lol. As in, some teachers like to write very long multiple choice questions that are difficult to decipher (you have to figure out what is being asked). And then secondly, the answer choices can often be long and difficult to decipher (or are too similar to distinguish sometimes). Fortunately, even many of the multiple choice hardliners (Spell) have started introducing a sizable short answer section that allows you to justify your answer and demonstrate your knowledge. Also, you have the issue that, in at least bio 142 (don’t know if bio 141 has become like this), they primarily just teach content, but the exams test almost all the content in experimental contexts which often aren’t stressed as much in class (some topics are heavily stressed in an experimental context, but many aren’t. And even those that are not, you need to be able to interpret an experimental scenario for which the concept is used). You have to do the problem sets (optional) to get experience with this. Many students aren’t used to this from their AP/high school bio class.</p>
<p>Wow, sounds crazy. Thanks for the comprehensive answer. I’m most likely not going to have to take Bio 1, Chem 1, & Physics 1&2. Do you recommend re-taking gen Chem 1 since I took it Fall 2011? I’ll probably fail Chem 2 since I forgot everything.</p>
<p>No, don’t waste your time (plus you may do less well because you are either overconfident or bored). Not to mention, chem 141 and 142 at Emory now use a different book and stuff is covered in a different order. As in, it is very possible that 142 is going to have stuff that you saw at GSU (or wherever) for chem. 1. You’ll be familiar with the stuff so that you can hit the ground running. If you want, just ask your friends taking 141 to show you an exam or HW problem. Either that or buy the book in the fall and do some self-review. </p>
<p>Yeah, take your oppurtunity to get started with some advanced coursework now. For example, since you have bio 1, you can start with organismal form and function (biol 240, Beck. Only requires bio 141, which you have) in the fall. Great class, teaches you how to think conceptually about both evolution and physiology and not too hard if you keep up (grades are higher than in 141/142 on average). Not to mention, there is no lab. And if you have chem. 1 credit, you can possibly take freshman orgo (hope for an invite). It’s a good way to get a leg up and since Soria isn’t teaching it anymore, it’s not going to be that difficult. Liotta is teaching 221-Z and it could be cool to be taught by a famous chemist in a small environment, and Soria is a co-instructor who will write the problem sets, which will be more challenging and teach you how to think more than what is actually required to do well on the exams. This means, you get to be challenged so that you actually learn the material somewhat well while also taking easy exams and thus getting a fairly solid score in organic chemistry). Since you have plenty of intro. credits, you have options, and you should be aware of them. The pre-health mentoring will advise you to simply retake them (and advise against any alternatives), but this is a poor way to differentiate yourself from the pre-med pack on standard track (and phmo has a poor track record on advising so far). Not to mention, you aren’t even guaranteed A’s if you retake (many w/AP 5 or IB who retook still scored in the B range, even B-. This especially goes for chem). You have the opp. to take more advanced courses, learn in better environments, and earn better grades if you just create your own path that includes at least a few of the options for those who don’t use joint-enrollment/AP/IB credit. You don’t want to come in with all these credits and stuff and end up applying to med. school looking average like everyone else. The app. process is too competitive so being average is a risky endeavor, unless you’re perfect (which is rare).</p>
<p>So you’re saying I should take other classes that are medically related since I don’t have to re-take some pre-med classes? I really want to do business/pre-med but I’m not sure if that’s going to work out at Emory. Also, I didn’t know you could take orgo without taking Chem 2. At other schools, you have to take both gen chems prior to taking orgo 1. Thanks again for all your help!</p>
<p>Yes, this is what I’m saying. BTW, many science classes are not “medically related”. They simply give you a solid background in basic science so that you have exposure to many classes you’ll take in med. school or to the sort of material that will be covered on the MCAT. You also shouldn’t limit yourself to science/non-science courses that seem “good for med. school”. Some of the best classes may have no relation at all. </p>
<p>If you take freshman orgo, you only need AP/IB credit which gets you 141 credit. This is how it works at almost all the elite schools which offer a freshman orgo. class. Furthermore, if you elect for 221-Z first semester, and you want a more challenging course second semester (since people like Liotta aren’t very challenging), you have the option of switching into a sophomore orgo. section with a person like Weinschenk or Gallivan. This is for if you want a class that is as challenging as it should be for a person who is of decent caliber and plans to pursue medicine or science. This is definitely important now as the MCAT you will be taking is different. You’ll definitely want professors that will try to develop those problem solving skills and teach you how to handle the occasional curve ball. If you decide for orgo, you may even want to consider starting at regular 221 (it happens) and taking Weinschenk’s class. It’s good because it’ll train you for the MCAT style questions (his exams are very similar. There are the free standing “standard level” questions and then there is the “passage-based like” apply your knowledge section where much of it is primarily a test of reading comprehension (and referring back to the initial intro./set-up for useful info.), and some of it is “challenge problem” type. I think you can handle it with your background. If you work hard, it could be good. You can take advantage of what seems like a light courseload first semester (because of your credits) and take him. Then you can keep him for 222 if you like it (he’s much easier for 222 IMO, so you can throw in an additional science course in the spring and be fine). He’s a wonderful professor. If you use those credits, you’ll be able to complete pre-med requirements fairly quickly (as many who do orgo. as a freshman do), and just go on to the b-school. When in the b-school, you can still take courses in the college. So if you want to continue taking science courses, you can throw one into the mix each term. If you take orgo. first, however, you will eventually need to take some sort of inorganic to fullfill the second semester inorganic requirement, so it can be gen. chem 2 or something like analytical chemistry w/lab (not too bad and can help you stand out if you do decently. I recommend it as it will essentially overtrain you for MCAT gen. chem which, according to my roommate emphasizes acids/base concepts heavily. His advanced chem background helped him do really well there). Again, you’re in a good position, because you have options that many don’t. You just have to not fall into the trap of fearing those options (you could even take advanced physics courses if you wanted, which is good).</p>
<p>That’s cool. Thanks so much for all your help. I’ll probably message you again in the future when I’m picking my schedule out. Thanks again!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the great advise. Do you know if there is a huge rush to get into the freshman organic chem., or is there usually a couple of open spots after class sign up? Since I’m planning on graduating as a chem. major in three years at Emory, it would be imperative that I make it into the class. In case you were wondering I made a 780 SAT2, a 4 on the AP chem test independently while taking IB Chem SL, and a 6 on the test for the class I was actually taking. My school is more of an IB than AP school so I wasn’t able to actually take the class. Instead I basically just did a great deal of practice AP tests a couple of weeks before the real test. I felt like my score was borderline 4/5, and unfortunately it was a 4.</p>