Choosing Full Ride Vs. Selective College?

Parents Forum
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<p>^___ Agree with so much of the above, but I think the decision is a no-brainer.</p>

<p>I also emphatically agree that the list of schools to consider should expand.</p>

<p>Remember, too, that there is an “in-between” full ride and full-pay, and many good schools give merit aid that will bring total costs down. For example, my son ended up with a scholarship that brought total tuition costs down to under $3000 per year.</p>

<p>Are you from Colorado? CSM (Mines) is a good school - especially for geology and petroleum engineering, but has a reputation for having unhappy students.</p>

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<p>Agree with Tperry that it is a very personal decision. The decision is not a no-brainer for everyone. We are not Bill Gates wealthy, but my kids have significant help from their grandmother. Oldest two had partial merit scholarships, youngest is full-pay at highly selective LAC. She is at the top of her class there so far, based on the awards and additional opportunities she has received. She knows how lucky she is and we are very happy with our decision. </p>

<p>This is a somewhat touchy issue for me. I see lots of criticism here on CC of parents who choose full pay over scholarships. I have wealthy friends who have homes with values 4X what mine is but don’t want to spend much money on college. That makes sense in some cases as their kids are not the best students. I have middle class friends who don’t have a lot of money for college and need to factor cost in. Each case is unique and families must make the best choice for themselves.</p>

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<p>This comes up all the time, and it really depends on what the kid is doing, generic questions are hard to answer, because there are so many specifics involved in these decisions. </p>

<p>For example, if your kid was thinking of going into investment banking, then they better think of going to an ivy league caliber institution, if not an Ivy (though a student could go to a good public school full ride, do well, then go to Harvard or Wharton for an MBA), there is still a lot of snobbery there. There are indications that for law school where you want to go to law school at Harvard, or med school at Harvard med, you have a better chance of getting in statistically…</p>

<p>Okay, so how about careers? I am assuming industry here, not going into academia (which I know little about), in the real world going to let’s say cal tech will have more name recognition and with some people will probably gain you easier access to an interview then a less famous school, there are people who see Ivy or Cal Tech or MIT and automatically assume certain things, but I’ll also add that in the job market, it may not be as big an influence as you think, while those schools are respected, a lot of hiring managers aren’t in instant awe of kids from places like that…and this halo effect other than in the rarified world of investment banking and a few other places, will not last, once the kid starts working it is all about him/her and her path, and if it matters down the road it sends red flags about that company (it is like the hiring manager I ran across once, when interviewing I had almost 10 years experience and had a very strong track record, and the moron asked me my college GPA, I walked out of that interview, told me what i needed to know of the company). Even in academia where you went may not matter much, though from the little I know of it, it may be a bit easier to go to a grad program after going to Cal Tech, it might help get someone in, but it by no means is necessary from what (little) I know…</p>

<p>I will add that if going to Cal Tech would be a lot of debt, a no brainer, or if financially it would mean destroying the family savings and/or leaving debt on the parents. As long as the other schools have decent programs (or as others have said, there may be other schools that would offer free ride or more affordable that may be better), then the free ride makes sense to me. If they want to go to grad school, it would mean potentially having money for that, and not having debt is huge to me. </p>

<p>If you otherwise can afford it, then the only other reason to go to Cal Tech is if the kid felt it would drive them forward or for some reason had a program that really, really would work for them, that programs like Cal Tech and MIT tend to be accelerated, then that could weigh in its favor…but given what you have said, to me it sounds like the full ride at the less prestigious school should be seriously considered.</p>

<p>I/We had to make that decision, my S had a full free ride at a respected music program, but also got admitted to another school with his dream teacher where we would be paying pretty much full freight. In the end, it came down to he felt the school he went to and the teacher he would have there would do a lot more for him, would drive him forward, and while we aren’t exactly living the high life, we have been making sacrifices all along, so no vacations, no fancy cars, fixing stuff around the house rather than getting it done, etc, is par for the course…but if my S thought things we even close to equal, he would have taken the free ride. </p>

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<p>This is a deeply personal issue for parents. It does not have a clear right or wrong answer. There are many important aspects of this including objective cost/benefit analysis, financial impact on the family, emotional impact on parent and student, and the fit of the colleges for the student. </p>

<p>In many cases, the student will be more successful at the less expensive school. In my experience, the more that you understand the specific benefits of choosing one school over another, the more clear that your choice will be. A school with a bigger name does not mean much, if there are not clear benefits to spending 4 years there. Does it have programs that are a better fit? Are the students a better fit for your child? Is there more access to practical, hands-on experiences? Research opportunities? Internships opportunities? Club activities? What do graduates typically do after graduation? Is you child excited about attending a particular school? Etc.</p>

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<p>My STEM daughter took the full ride and hasn’t looked back… but luckily it was at school she preferred over her higher ranked acceptances. (I think she like the school’s urban location and the fact that they really made her feel welcome.) She has had lots of leadership training and opportunity to study abroad.</p>

<p>It hasn’t all been roses though. She has had to work harder to find relevant internship opportunities. And her course schedule leaves little time for liberal arts type classes (which she misses.)</p>

<p>She is applying to graduate school now and I fully expect she’ll be accepted to a top program. And should she not receive funding, we’ll be able to cover her costs with the monies we expected to pay for undergrad. </p>

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<p>

While you are technically correct, I think most of the criticism I see is of those who choose full pay over scholarships and have to take on a lot of debt to do it. To each their own of course, but since people ask for opinions on here, it is fine to give this one. My opinion is that this path is, indeed, quite foolish almost every time. Of course if the family can easily afford full pay, or even if the sacrifice involved is relatively small, then choosing a more expensive school that is also more highly desired by the student makes perfect sense for many families, even if they have the opportunity to attend another school for practically nothing.</p>

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<p>" Finding that academic orientation is part of the challenge here. My impression is that a lot of schools with big merit awards are trying to increase the numbers of really bright, motivated students who attend. The obvious inference is that the school may not have a lot of those students currently attending"-
The "The obvious inference " sometime is not leading to a correct conclusion. D’s Honors college was primarily (all?) valedictorians, just like D. many #1’s in their respective HS classes and all who we talked to at info. session were from private HSs, but not all 200 selected to Honors. The selection criteria was top 2%, ACT=31+. Apparently not all of them would ve accepted at Ivy’s, but many would. All #1 at D’s HS before and after her went to Harvard, D. could have not been accepted, but she did not care to apply. We heard that getting accepted at bs/md is practically the same level, D. was accepted at 3 of them.
Another point, I saw UMich mentioned. It is public in-state and known for NOT such a great packages for OOS, again, D. did not apply there.<br>
And again, if a top kid is planning to attend Grad. School, what is the reason to pay for UG? Unless family has unlimited resources and can pay for both, the clear choice is to pay for a Grad. School.</p>

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<p>@‌ tperry-
It is a personal decision, and there are no solid rules. In some ways I grew up like you did, my dad didn’t make much (engineer at a defense contractor…not good payers), my mom didn’t work, but we all went to private universities. With my own child, we have sacrificed for him because we believed in it, to do so we had only me working (for the support he needed), he went to private school, and not to mention what we spent on music, and as I wrote on my post above, he is at a full ride school because he/we felt it would be the better path for him over a full ride one. There are some people who have told me we were crazy to be spending 60k a year on music, it has no ROI, etc, etc, but it has to be a personal decision, based on personal factors. All people can really talk about is what they have seen in the real world (like to succeed,you don’t have to go to an ivy or a prestigious school, that there are benefits and tradeoffs to everything), but in the end, the parent and child has to decide what is best. A free ride sounds like a dream, but if for example the free ride was at a school that generally accels in sports but in its other programs is so so, might not be such a great choice…</p>

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<p>I really appreciate all of the responses that I have received to my post. I am really open to all suggestions!!!</p>

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<p>At the end, we are also doing a “holistic” selection on the schools. Cost is just one of the many factors (as long as it is affordable). Different people would have a different weight on different factors. My D picked the school that is not the most selective among those she was admitted but quite selective; not the most affordable but it covers full tuition and left us with only EFC; not the highest ranked, but most important, the one she likes most.</p>

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<p>We also had twins that received full rides from several colleges and acceptances at other selective colleges with some scholarships. For us it was a matter of fit. They both wanted a more selective college because it seemed to be a better fit with size of school and college life. The full rides were at some state schools that were large 30,000+ and they both thought the smaller school would be better for them. They would have been miserable at some of larger state schools. They’re also studying in different engineering studies. Again it all depends on finances for some families and its sometimes better to go with the school with the most to offer financially. </p>

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<p>Can you give us an update? Is your daughter still at the school? Did she complete a semester or full year? Or simply withdraw and start reapplying? (For spring … or next year?) I’m second guessing decision for my D and wondering if I’m being too hasty in being concerned … or not. This first semester has been bumpier and harder than I’d anticipated. Thanks. </p>

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<p>@fallenchemist has a good point. Fullride vs. out-of-pocket is not the same as fullride vs. some debt, and massive debt is a different thing yet. My kid’s at Harvard because we’d already decided we could afford that much money. Kid was also admitted to Amherst for a few thousand more. If Harvard not come through, kid would NOT be attending Amherst. Tough luck, kid. </p>

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<p>I do think it’s unwise to take on significant debt or sacrifice financial security, but beyond that, it’s a personal choice of what you value and want to spend your money on. I’m content to live moderately and spend money on education. Others may prefer to take expensive vacations, drive newer luxury cars, and remodel the kitchen. They work hard for their money and they can spend it as they prefer.</p>

<p>I think the problem arises when kids have an expectation that parents will sacrifice everything for them to attend the most expensive school. This seems like an odd situation to me, considering that if money is an issue for college, it’s unlikely these kids were raised with a money is no object family philosophy, but suddenly, somehow, they have the expectation that cost doesn’t matter when it comes to college.</p>

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<p>@mathyone:</p>

<p>Well, I hear that happen, where parents sacrifice to get their kids camp, music lessions, whatever, and so the kids expect to be able to go whereever they want, but full-pay at a top private is a bit more than all that added together, so not really feasible without more debt.</p>

<p>Or kids see other kids’ parents do it and expect the same. Actually, that may be the biggest thing. Peer judgement is an immense force to most teenagers, and if their best friend who’s family has the same big house and same nice cars can send them to a private, they can’t understand why their parents can’t send them to an Ivy.</p>

<p>They might not know or care that the friend’s family makes 5 times what their parents make.</p>

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<p>Whether or not it’s affordable to the family, there is also the matter of perceived value. Reading this site, it’s clear that some people place huge value on a prestigious private college education whereas others feel it’s little different or in some cases not as good as far less expensive options. And I don’t think there’s an objective value you can place on the college experience any more than you can objectively value the 5 star hotel vacation vs. the more modest one. </p>

<p>My daughter could have had a free ride. I think those can be a great opportunity, but neither of us felt the schools offering them would be a good fit for her. A few weeks in, she seems very happy, excited, and engaged at her school. So far, I have no regrets. If she were headed to an expensive professional grad school, the cost would have been a bigger concern.</p>

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<p>Its been many years since my son graduated from Caltech, but he is still close to classmates and attends local (to Him) alumni events. Back in the Stone Age, I posted a lot about his experiences there. I’m sure he would have been content and done well at other colleges. He did have merit aid there, and had good internships. The small size of the school allowed him to get involved in ECs.</p>

<p>It is a personal decision. I went to the honors program at a flagship. I was with strangers in most classes, moved every year, and got out fast. I wanted something better for my son. It was a no-brainer for me.</p>

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<p>My husband and I met because we both had full tuition scholarships and lived in the scholars’ house. But from early on, we did not want to assume our 2 kids would similarly win scholarships, did not think they would qualify for much financial aid, and wanted them to have options and not just limit them to schools that offered merit aid, so we saved from very early on. </p>

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<p>I think it’s personal and depends on the exact universities and the quality of their honors program, but also the child’s personality. There is such a thing as “fit”, especially for quirky kids or kids who don’t fit into the local norm (ie., laid back in an overachieving area, or intellectual in an area where book-smarts aren’t valued, etc.) It can be very isolating when everyone is going to the game and you really, really hate sports so either must force yourself to go for the sake of sociability or must be set aside from the campus culture. This is also especially true at small schools (1,500 or fewer) and/or at schools that have a distinctive culture the student isn’t part of (be it religion, sports, drinking, etc.)
If the Honors program is just 1 class out of 5, with 4 classes with classmates who don’t do the reading and some who don’t bother showing up for exam, college can be terrible for an intellectual kid who was hoping to finally leave high school behind and get with peers who’d want to discuss books, films, great ideas and thinkers, and think it cool to do so. There’s also the case of a university nearby that doesn’t meet the student’s academic need (doesn’t offer the major, or very limited offerings in the area of academic interest) that a student can be railroaded into attending because the parents don’t understand the difference in depth and breadth between different universities’ regarding specific fields. If the Honors Program has dorms, a thorough choice of classes, activities planned and/or other perks, and if the average student at the university isn’t miles from the kid who’s applying, then it can be a good fit. Honors programs can be terrific places but they ought to be looked into since they’re all different.
Finally, there are some fields where specific universities WILL make a difference, all other things being equal. An English major at Bowling Green and an English major at Kenyon will not have the same opportunities. A Finance major at Kelley will not have the same job opportunities as a finance major at Texas State. Art history, math, foreign languages, international relations, are other examples. On the other hand, Nursing or Engineering have pretty standardized programs so the impact of the college would be almost nil. Students aiming for med school is another such example.
In my opinion, the goal shouldn’t be to “save money” per se, but to find something that’s affordable and a good fit. “Fit” can be defined as academic level, but often it’s more related to personality and interests. I don’t think “prestige” should matter, but value and fit should be paramount.
But that’s personal - on this website, clearly, some students think rankings and prestige are the be-all, end-all. I disagree, but if their parents agree…</p>

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<p>It just occurred to me this “headache” could actually be completely avoided which would resulted in “fun” time applying and deciding instead of “worry” time. How to avoid it - EASY - do not check ranking, why anybody cares? Ranking is largely based on the research grants. What it means in particular to the UG student? It means that profs have higher priority than taking care of their students, all those world re-known people, what they are known for? I goes down to one fact - they are grant magnets. But how about UG students? There are classes that had many lectures provided by somebody else and not those profs whose name is listed for this class. This is going on even at some “lesser” schools, not only at the very top. How do we know? D. talked to many from her very expensive rigorous tiny private HS class of 33 with most parents being MD or lawyers, who send kids to top / private UGs and did not care how much they would pay. None of D’s classes were lectured by TAs, profs lectured at every single lecture, in fact, one of her classes was tought by 3 profs being at every lecture at the same time, each teaching subspecialty of this killer weed out class that some valedictorians did not survivie very well.
So, if one complete skips checking the rankings, then they will end up having great fun applying and deciding and that is exactly how our family remembers D’s UG application days,…all the fun going to interviews, her walking in high heels on the ice, taking nap in a car between 3 interviews in a row, all in different citiies, meeting other families, sharing experiences, discovering that every family has a different selection criteria based on their specific needs, nobody cared about any kind of rankings…</p>