I have twin Ds who were both accepted to Stanford. One has since been named a Robertson Scholar at UNC. The other is a Mork Scholar at USC and a Lombardi Scholar at UF. These are our only children and we were up front about being willing to pay if they got into Stanford. However, they are both leaning towards the schools who have given them more money. Since this is all new to us, I would love to hear any thoughts others might have on how we can best help them decide. The programs at UNC, USC, and UF are incredibly compelling with summer study abroad opportunities and stipends. Do we just sit back and let them make their own decisions? Thanks in advance for your thoughts, advice or wisdom.
Given the above, why would you not let them make their own decisions?
Now, if you are asking for specific advice on what they should consider when making the decisions, you may want to add a little more information like the academic interests, post-graduation goals, and preferences about college characteristics that they may have.
@ucbalumnus - Thx. That is where it gets a little tricky. One is interested in environmental science and advocacy and one is interested in agriculture and sustainability. Both like a college with a strong school spirit and frankly a bit more of a college town feel than they will find in Palo Alto. I expect they will both go to grad school. Not being college poor is also a factor for them. Maybe I am answering my own question. Her dad and I are finding it a little hard to let Stanford go so easily because there is a lot of outside pressure (“Well, of course they should go to Stanford…”) and we have never been on this side of the process before. Things were much easier when we went to college.
I aay Stanford. The opportunities, academics, and facilities at Stanford can only be matched by a few elite schools, and I think the post grad opportunities after Stanford will exceed a full ride in the long run.
In addition to the offerings in their areas of interest, if they are considering graduate school, it can matter whether it is something that they will have to pay for (e.g. professional programs like law school) or something that is commonly funded (e.g. PhD program).
@madredos: The choices your daughters have are great. I, too, think you have stumbled into the answer to your own question as you responded in this thread.
None of the voices in the crowd will attend classes with either of your daughters, or walk either of them through an unexplained yearning for something which may not be present for them at an institution that they have not freely chosen.
They have done so remarkably well in being chosen. Now let them choose.
Yes. Unless they’re making a terribly wrong decision (which doesn’t seem to be the case here), why not just leave it up to them? They’re smart enough to get into Stanford, and lucky enough to have parents who will pay, but if they prefer to go to USC or UNC for whatever reasons, why not? They could always go to Stanford for grad school (and you’d still have the $$ to pay for it). It’s hard to let go (my D last year chose a slightly less prestigious school and it was hard for me, but she’s happy and in the end, that’s what matters), but they’ll feel better if they make their own decisions. I’d say offer them the $ to attend Stanford if they want, but leave it up to them (assuming you can also afford grad school afterwards; if it’s one or the other, then I’d say go to USC/UNC and then pay for their grad school at Stanford if they don’t get a funded PhD.)
Hi @madredos … Congrats to both of your girls for having fantastic options! Hopefully I can be helpful having had to make a similar decision in the past (I’ve listed pros & cons of each as I know in an unbiased way…there are similar full rides vs. prestige threads everywhere on CC too). First off, your daughters should definitely make the decision for themselves but I suggest they do research, visit the schools etc, really think about their career paths (both Plan A and Plan B). Do you have a more specific sense of what they want to do besides their fields of interest as you posted above? Academia, professional schools, for-profit work, non-profit work? My guidance might change depending on those factors.
I had to choose between the UNC Robertson and a HYPS many years ago. I chose the Robertson and have been very successful in my path, beat out other HYPS grads for a spot at a competitive consulting firm, worked at top non-profit and for-profit institutions in line with my passions and interests and attended a top professional grad school on full scholarship again (and I had multiple scholarships to grad school). I’ve worked alongside and went to grad school with many HYPS grads and we ended up in the same place. Many of my Robertson peers have attended Harvard (PhD, Law, Medicine, Public Health, MPP, MBA), Stanford, Wharton, Yale, Johns Hopkins, Duke, UNC, Oxford, Columbia, Dartmouth etc for grad school. I’ve been very happy with my choice.
To be clear, neither a full ride nor Stanford is going to be a magical path. Both require hard work and dedication. I know many people who are Stanford grads or were on full rides who are normal (and happy) people working regular jobs and others who aren’t doing anything quite “remarkable” out of choice. Both paths will give similar results depending on how your daughters take advantage of their opportunities. For the things I have not achieved I cannot blame that on going to UNC instead of the bigger name school… At the end of the day the common factor is me. Honestly the thing that matters more is their major and industry in terms of financial success (if they do STEM/business anywhere among the top 30 schools they will be set financially, if they do non-profits/academia their path will be rockier just b/c of the sector).
Stanford Pros: Name recognition. Having lived in major cities, I’ve come to realize that HYPS name recognition is big in places like SF, NYC, Boston, DC etc. They’ll always have the name on their resume and it might open certain doors / get them more interviews if they are changing career paths mid-career. If they want to work in Computer Science, Tech, VC etc then it is a no-brainer to go to Stanford given the SV obsession with the Stanford brand. Closer to a big city with many exciting opportunities. Stanford might also set them up better if that want more flexibility and they are unsure of their path.
Stanford Cons: I didn’t go to the school so I can’t speak to this. I would be cautious to expect that Stanford is suddenly going to make their lives that much better especially if they want to go into something like non-profit or social impact work, where salaries are lower and the opportunities they’d get on a full ride might set them up better for success. Like I said before, don’t expect it to be a magic bullet.
Full Ride Pros: Going to a more “normal” and holistic university experience. Being a top contender in your school for resources and opportunities. You will also likely standout as a top student in grad admissions from your school. For the UNC Robertson, you would get so many extracurricular & summer opportunities in addition to attending Duke for a semester (honestly, I actually preferred UNC’s environment to Duke…the students were more grounded, less blindly competitive for no reason). Financial flexibility to set up your life post undergrad. My travel experiences with the Robertson were some of the most amazing in my life and helped me better understand what I actually wanted to do with my life. It really set me up well for my career and made me stand out when going for jobs.
Full Ride Cons: Your undergrad won’t be “Stanford”…and there is no guarantee that they’ll get into Stanford for grad school. Depending on the field, going to Stanford may set them up with more opportunities (mostly CS, Tech, VC).
My recommendation for your daughters:
- Visit both schools. Get a vibe. It’s so important they like the school. There is no point going to a higher ranked school that you don’t actually like or that you won’t feel comfortable with.
- Map out their four year plans in their areas of interests: Classes they’d take/majors, Extracurriculars, Summer Activities, Job Prospects. Have them do this for their Plan A (what they think they want to do) and for their Plan B (what if they change their mind? … I can’t tell you how many people end up switching their majors/interests).
- Compare their options and make a decision weighing everything both short and long term
Your daughters will make the right decision for themselves - and I emphasize let them make their own decision as it’s their lives. They will also be successful regardless because they are bright, hardworking and have perspective…I have no doubt about it.
Good luck to them!
Congrats to your daughters!
Let them make their own decisions! Stanford is great, but your daughters seem intelligent enough to be able to make it there for grad school (if they choose to). It also comes down to major and future career plans–let them think about that…who knows, maybe stanford is right for one daughter but not the other? That being said USC and UNC are no “normal” schools–they are definitely near the top and a full ride at either would be extremely difficult to pass up.
One thing to think about:
Would you rather be in the middle of a small school or the top of a big school? There’s no right answer–it’s different for each individual.
There is no one right answer. Personally, if my kids got into Stanford and I could afford to pay (without hardship) I’d encourage that option.
“One is interested in environmental science and advocacy and one is interested in agriculture and sustainability.”
Ok, why on earth would someone interested in agriculture apply to Stanford? Cornell, yes. Purdue, yes. UC Davis, yes. But Stanford?
madredos,
DS was accepted at many top colleges, including 2 Ivys , and was also awarded a Trustee Scholarship at USC [ this was 10 years ago before the Mork Scholars program was added.]
He chose USC and never regretted it. We all were grateful that we didnt have to worry about paying for college, because we knew that graduate school was going to be his next step in life.
He is now at Caltech pursuing his PhD in Geophysics.
He was accepted at every grad school he applied to, including Stanford.
Having Mork or Robertson Scholar on their CV’s will open the doors for your girls just as wide, if not wider than a degree from Stanford.
They have a chance to be treated like gold at USC and UNC.
Turning those 2 extraordinary opportunities down is foolish, imho.
Follow the $$- the benefits of those prestigious awards wont stop, even after they leave college.
First congrats to your Ds! What a wonderful quandry to have. As mother of twins, I’m curious whether they have a preference re: going to same school or different schools. Will that factor into decision?
another way to look at this:
2000 kids were accepted to Stanford
Only a small handfullof kids were offered the Mork and Robertson Scholarships.
Are we talking $100,000 extra for Stanford?
$200,000 extra?
$300,000 extra?
I am not sure Stanford offers agriculture as a field although environmental science seems common enough to be available. This seems closest.
Full tuition+ scholarships at Duke and USC are a great deal. What do you need to pay at Stanford?
“Having Mork or Robertson Scholar on their CV’s will open the doors for your girls just as wide, if not wider than a degree from Stanford.”
I tend to agree with @menloparkmom. Whatever prestige factor you “lose” by not opting for Stanford will be made up by the prestige of being an elite scholarship recipient, and all the perks that will come with that: automatic recognition of being a standout at the school of their choice, easier access to top faculty and research, etc.
At Stanford, your girls will be just another undergrad. Granted, at a school of great renown, but still one (or, rather two!) among many.
I am truly so grateful to all of you for your advice, insight, wisdom, and experience. I will try to respond to the questions for clarification.
@Welltraveled20 - Thanks for the amazing pros and cons list. Their career paths are not highly defined but we are okay with that as they are only 18. One would like to work in non-profit sustainable hunger relief and one would like to work in the marine science field, doing research and advocacy for conservation plans. What those jobs actually will look like 4 years from now, I am not sure.
@happymomof1 - Truth be told, my second D applied, after my first was accepted REA, at the behest of her father. She recognizes that there is no true agriculture major but they do have an Earth Systems major that she can work within. USC does not have an ag major either. But they do have a developing sustainability program that she could definitely grow along with. Cornell and Perdue are out, out, out because this D is not a fan of cold, cold, cold. I do appreciate your question though! I prefer that she think a little outside of the straight ag box anyway.
@menloparkmom - I am very grateful to you for sharing your DS’ firsthand experience at USC. We are planning a trip back out there in the next few weeks because I want her to have the chance to visit USC without being in the interview hot seat. It has occurred to us that fewer students have the opportunities afforded by the Robertson and the Mork than have the opportunity to attend Stanford.
@4Gulls - My Ds do not attend the same high school so attending the same college is not a factor. It would be terrific if they were near each other but that doesn’t seem likely at this point either.
@ClarinetDad16 and @texaspg - Right now the FA is not good at all and we would be looking at quite a bit of money if they both chose to attend Stanford. More than we bargained for. We are still trying to figure out why they are asking us to spend our full EFC twice, rather than splitting it between the two kids, which is more manageable. We were upfront with our kids that we would be willing to pay room and board anywhere but that they would have to pick up the tuition costs out of state as our state has very generous merit money for NMF and also we have prepaid here. We also threw in a handful of schools that we would make monetary sacrifices to pay the tuition for, Stanford being one of those schools. And we will hold up our end of that deal. We are one of those families that makes enough that we don’t get a lot of aid. But paying twice our EFC will make life tricky for the next 4 years.
Our bottom line question is really how much do we push. And from your terrific and thoughtful responses, I think the answer is to trust their judgment and know that they can’t truly lose here. You have helped to give me some perspective and I feel better about what they are facing in the next 21 days. (Well, less for the UNC D but I think she has definitely made up her mind anyway!) Thanks so much. Wishing you all a great week!
why dont you have your DD’s read this thread?
It may help them make their decisions.
My Money is on them deciding that it would be very smart to be PAID to go to college, instead of stressing out their parents over the cost of paying for college.
And may I [ remotely] introduce you to Dr Bickers, who is the vice Provost for Undergraduate Programs?
https://www.provost.usc.edu/senior-administration/nelson-eugene-bickers/
He is a truly wonderful prof/ provost We have kept in touch during the past 10 years, and I’m sure he would love to meet your DD.
@menloparkmom - Thanks!! Just sent his info to DD, and DH as it is his turn to do the USC trip. Would love for them to meet up with Dr. Bickers while they are there. And good suggestion on them reading the thread. We do seem to almost officially have a Tar Heel so we are one down and one to go.
@katliamom - “one (or, rather two!) among many.” Now that made me laugh. Thx!!