Choosing the Right School

Parent Cafe
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<p>Advice anyone?</p>

<p>I?ve been accepted to Stanford, Yale, Penn, Northwestern, and Michigan (in-state) and I?m having a tough time deciding. Just to give a little background information, I think I want to major in either chemistry or math, but that could change to physics or maybe electrical engineering. I want to live near a big city. My mind is drawing a blank here, but if you have any questions to get a better feel of what I like, feel free to ask.</p>

<p>Originally, I thought that I would go to Northwestern if I were accepted because I love Chicago. I haven?t had a chance to visit Northwestern, but they are offering to fly me out to one of the admitted student days. I think the main problem with me going to Northwestern would be the money. I practically have a full ride at Michigan and I don?t really think it?s worth me paying all this extra money to go to Northwestern when I could go to Michigan for free. My English teacher helped me to realize this. I think she wants me to go to Stanford, because she talks to me a lot about that school. The same goes for my math teacher. He seems very impressed by Stanford as well.</p>

<p>As far as Stanford, I think I applied there because my mother pushed me. Don?t get me wrong. I like the school, but it's just so far away. Although I haven?t visited the campus yet, I don?t think I would like the size of it. It seems too big. I hear that it?s not too far from San Francisco; however, most freshman and sophomores don?t really go there. What first attracted me to Stanford was its reputation for being good in the science majors and the laid-back atmosphere.</p>

<p>At first I wasn?t so sure about Yale, but now that I have been accepted, I think I like it more. I?ve been talking to some prospective and current Yale students and they really seem laid-back and just cool people to be around. Although it?s kind of far from a big city, I hear that people take the train to NYC, which isn?t too bad. I know that Yale has a reputation for being strong in the humanities, but I always thought if you go to a top 25 school, you?re getting the best education possible, and the differences are insignificant.</p>

<p>Penn is the school that I know the least about. I originally picked it because it?s in Philly, and I thought it would be cool to live there. I like the traditions that they have at the school, and it seems like the students like to have fun and are pretty laid-back.</p>

<p>What should I do? My problem is that I haven?t really visited any of these schools, except for Michigan, and I haven?t received any finaid offers yet. I?m going to try to visit but I don?t think I?ll be able to make all of them because of money and because some of the dates overlap. If I am unable to visit, how should I go about making my decision?</p>

<p>THANKS FOR READING!!!</p>

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<p>Can you visit Stanford? I think it's sort of a love it or hate it place. I don't really like it, but I encouraged my son to apply because it would still be a good fit for him and is very strong in the fields that interest him. For me Stanford isn't so much big - it's just that it seems to removed from its surroundings. It's very easy to get into SF, I think it's just that there's so much going on on campus that kids don't feel they need to get into the city. I had much the same experience with Harvard and Boston. Though I deliberately took some architecture courses that forced me to study Boston's architecture as a way of exploring the city. :)</p>

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<p>Stanford is a hell of a lot smaller than Michigan. There's no reason not to go to San Francisco from time to time, except that people are probably enjoying themselves and feeling stimulated there. I don't think that there will be a big difference between the type of people who go to Stanford and the type of people who go to Yale, except that there will be more science and engineering types at Stanford. It may seem far away and foreign, but you ought to respect the fact that people completely fall in love with it, and even more so with California. There's a reason why half the world seems to want to live there.</p>

<p>Really, apart from the money you couldn't really go wrong at any of these schools, and you could make an argument for any of them except Michigan. (Nothing wrong with Michigan at all, but it's not really in a city, and if you are going to be that far away from a city, it ought to be NYC or SF, not Detroit.)</p>

<p>Taking money into account, though, you have a tough, tough choice. Personally, I believe Yale and maybe Stanford offer something unique that it may be worth paying a lot of money for. But I think you are talking about a lot-lot of money, and many other intelligent people will tell you it would be nuts to do that. Penn is probably exactly what you want in terms of how it's located within a major city, but I'm not so certain it is any better educationally than Michigan, or that you should want to pay six figures for location. Ditto Northwestern, but even more.</p>

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<p>It sounds like big city life is part of what you are seeking. If that is the case, then I think only Northwestern and Penn really qualify (unless you count New Haven as a big city). While Stanford is about an hour from San Francisco (I went there), it would not be common for students to go to San Francisco much at all. Just something some might do very occasionally; many almost never. Ditto Yalies and New York City (New Haven is what? 2 hours from Manhattan?).</p>

<p>So, if the ability to make a special trip to a big city on occasion would do it for you, you can add those to campuses back to your list. </p>

<p>If the big city thing is not really important, Palo Alto is a good city/town - shops, restaurants, etc. Ann Arbor is as well, as I'm sure you know.</p>

<p>I agree with mathmom that people often either love or hate the Stanford campus - often just based on architecture. It is so California Mission style vs. Gothic/Federal/Georgian traditional college architecture; so it's just not what some people picture in their mind's eye for a college campus. It's possible to love both (I do ;) ). It is a <em>bit</em> of a spread-out campus, such that some kids bike around it, rather than walk; but it is a self-contained campus. And as far as student-body size, it is way smaller than UMich.</p>

<p>You have a set of win-win schools to choose from. Your main question seems to be "if I can't visit, how should I make the decision?" - a very valid question. Here's my suggestion: when you get the finaid packages, drop any school that you're currently doubting if the package isn't competitive. Perhaps, then, visit the ones you know the least about and the one you think is your favorite. </p>

<p>Then go with your gut. I still like the criterion I posted a couple of seasons ago re these thorny decisions, what</a> I call the "it's out of your hands" process; because it often clarifies what you really want when you feel like it's impossible to figure that out.</p>

<p>For you, the gut feeling should prevail imho, because you could make spreadsheets, ranking lists, pro and con sheets out the wazoo and probably they would never be conclusive. All your choices are that good.</p>

<p>Now... if we're talking climate??? 'Nuf said. Stanford is the only one.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

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<p>"but I always thought if you go to a top 25 school, you?re getting the best education possible, and the differences are insignificant."</p>

<p>The differences may actually be significant, but they are not likely - for any particular student - to necessarily follow the pattern of the ranking. </p>

<p>Are you saying that UMichigan (I presume it is Michigan-Honors) would cost you zero, and the others are you await the aid package (ie. up to $190k plus over four years?)</p>

<p>If so, take a piece of paper and divide it on top - put Michigan-Honors on one-side, and put the school of your choice on the other. Then, under Michigan, put all the things that, educationally or in terms of your future, you could buy for whatever the cost difference is between the schools (including a downpayment on a condo in a major city which you could rent out until you move there). If it still comes out Yale, or Penn, or Northwestern or wherever, then go for it.</p>

<p>Yale isn't particularly reputed for its math, physics, chemistry, or electrical engineering departments. It's probably just fine, but I'm sure there are folks on this forum who might make the case that UMichigan is better. (Beyond my expertise.)</p>

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<p>Congratualtions to you, kiddo. You did a GREAT job of putting five FANTASTIC possiblities on the table. I'm so impressed.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>First, you can't go wrong. Trust the adcom to select you because they believe you will thrive in their school.</p></li>
<li><p>Put this thread on pause until you get and negotiate the final money offers. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>For you, becuase you are unsure of your career path (maybe engineering, maybe not), I don't see the sense in taking on $120K worth of debt if you can go to UMich, 4th best engineering program in the country.</p>

<p>It might make sense to take on $30K of debt to go to Stanford, Yale or Penn because of the global brand-name value--but no more than $30K if you aren't sure you want to be an engineer. Don't hamstring your career choices by taking on too much debt as an undergrad.</p>

<ol>
<li> Meanwhile, sweet-talk all the schools into flying you out to see them--if you haven't seen them before. There are advantages to all of them.</li>
</ol>

<p>Yale has a terrific residential system which will ensure that you make life-long best mates in a hurry. For a guy who is worried about being too far from home, Yale gives the best, quickest method to create a second home at college. (btw--you probably won't feel insecure about going far away when you are a junior in college. Unless you think that 2 airfares back and forth will be a huge burden to your family--assume you will grow into a more confident young man).</p>

<p>Northwestern might be the one with the biggest money offer. If you want to live in a big city and go to a friendly school, Northwestern may be the ticket.</p>

<p>Stanford is science heaven. For a guy who can't decide between chemistry, engineering and physics, Stanford will be like nirvana. The laid-back atmosphere would also be a plus to a guy who needs to feel at home as quickly as possible. And the weather dude, the weather. If you're from Michigan, the weather at Stanford will be like getting a birthday present-- every single day.</p>

<p>Penn...needs the most research and a good two day visit to the various science and engineering departments to see if you can find your 'people' there. It's big. It's urban urban. It's super competitive.</p>

<p>Michigan--its a great school. It's nearly free. </p>

<p>Good luck and again, well done to you.</p>

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<p>mathmom
I'm going to try to visit Stanford. I don't know if I'll be able to visit though, but from what I'm hearing it's the only way to tell if I really like it. Is it better if I visit during the admitted students' days? I know Stanford's is right after Yale, and I don't think I'll be able to make that flight. I think that it's good that Stanford has a lot of things to do on campus. Even though I like the big city atmosphere, I want a community feeling on campus and I think campus activities help bring that.</p>

<p>JHS
Just for clarification, you think that it's not worth paying any extra money to live in Philly and go to Penn when I could just go to Michigan?</p>

<p>jmmom
I guess the only reason like a big city atmosphere, because I know there will be a lot going on and a lot of things to do. I live in a big city and I don't know what it's like to live in a small town. I don't want things to become stale, where it seems as if I've been to the same places 20 times already and things pretty much stay the same. I feel like if the campus has tons of things to do and I have the city life, I won't feel this way. I think I can deal with visiting NYC and SF occasionally, as long as there are a lot of cool things to do in New Haven and Palo Alto. From what I've heard about New Haven, it might be more of what I don't want. What I'm trying to say is if I go to Yale and I find that I don't like New Haven very much, I don't want to end up spending a lot of money traveling to NYC all the time. But thanks, I'm going to try your suggestions in the other thread.</p>

<p>mini
I currently have scholarships that would pay about $15k at Michigan, possibly a few more on the way. I sent in my essay for Honors at Michigan maybe a week and a half ago, and I won't get a decision until the end of April. I think I can get in because my essay was really good, but they might run out of spaces first. My EFC is about $24k so it would a max of $100k of debt over for 4 years. </p>

<p>cheers
I guess I should have said this in my OP, but I'm a girl. Did you mean $30k per year or $30k total debt for 4 years? The only problem with waiting until I get my finaid packages is that I don't know when they're coming. My parents finished the taxes about a week ago. The CSS and fafsa were done soon after the deadline. I forgot when exactly. Hopefully, they get here before I have to make a decision. Engineering is more of a back up in case math or chemistry doesn?t work out. I'd much rather major in math or chemistry. I'm taking your advice about calling the schools to see if one might possible fly me out. Can you elaborate more on Penn being competitive? I've never heard it described that way before.</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone's responses.</p>

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<p>I just wanted to chip in that Northwestern is near Chicago, but not in it. The feeling is definitely more suburban than urban, just like a midwest version of Stanford. I've never been to Yale or Michigan, but Michigan is about the size of the other schools combined. Stanford is not a big university in BigStateU terms. I don't know nothing about Penn.</p>

<p>Sounds like you can't go wrong. Congratulations.</p>

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<p>Well, between all those schools the biggest difference I see is weather. It is interesting to see what effect a little warmer winter weather can have on one's approach to life. :)</p>

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<p>I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Go back to the beginning and make a list of the top ten characteristics in a college that are most important to YOU personally, separate from the schools you were admitted to. Then, instead of comparing all of your options at once, individually evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of how each does/does not match what you desire and need. That will help you bump off at least one school, and you can then compare the remaining schools directly. Good luck!</p>

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<p>WashDad,</p>

<p>I went to both Northwestern and Stanford. </p>

<p>Northwestern isn't the midwest version of Stanford as far as proximity to the city goes. No even close. The town of Evanston shares the boarder with the city of Chicago. It's the Chicago downtown that's 45-min subway-ride from Evanston (12 miles). But pretty much all of the most vibrant neighhorbhoods are located between Evanston and downtown (collectively called the North Side). I even rode my bike sometime from Evanston to the negibhorhoods of Edgewater (many restaurants serving authentic Asian, mostly Vietnamese, food; there were 2 quarters in which I even went there once a week for volunteer work) and Lakeview (lots of restaurants, coffee shops, and shops; a "gayborhood" where I meet some of my gay friends that live there). </p>

<p>Evanston itself has been voted the best "city" to live just outside Chicago. It has more than 100 restaurants of great variety near/in the downtown area (called dinning capital of the North Shore). It also has a cinema megaplex in the middle of downtown. It's not your typical boring and quiet suburb.</p>

<p>Palo Alto, on the other hand, is 35 miles from SF. That's 45 mins on the freeway (not subway-ride). Taking the Caltrain would take about an hour on the train. It's a commuter train, so it runs more on a typical commuter train schedule instead of city subway one and it doesn't run all night. The train station is one mile away from the dorms (Stanford's campus is huge). </p>

<p>Palo Alto is very affluent but dull. It doesn't feel like a college town at all. The strip (like the train station) is a mile from the central campus; there's no major movie theater at the time I was there. It doesn't have that many restaurants and places good to hang out for college crowds anyway. </p>

<p>NothinButTheBest,</p>

<p>I totally understand what you said because I am very much the same way. Stanford would be by far the best for your potential fields. The students generally like Stanford very much and very happy about their educational experience. But there's not much to do in Palo Alto and it's not that close to or easy to get to SF. You have a very tough decision to make.</p>

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<p>One more thing: since Caltrain is a commuter train, the ticket isn't cheap esp for people on student budget--$5.75 one way. Add the 1.25 for the Muni to get to wherever you want in SF and we now have $7 one way at the minimum. Another reason why many, especially those on tight budget, don't just do the random SF trip often.</p>