<p>Hi all!</p>
<p>I find myself in the awesome position of being able to choose between going to Harvard, Yale, or Stanford. I am a proposed environmental science major, but I'm not committed to it. I could also be interested in biology or chemistry as possible majors.</p>
<p>Whoops, didn’t mean to enter on that yet. What I meant to finish with was: I am leaning towards Yale because it seems like a much happier place to be than Harvard and because it has a stronger environmental science program, but could anyone advise me as to comparisons between Yale and Stanford? Or whether I’d be better off enduring the slightly less enjoyable aspects of Harvard for the admittedly better science department?</p>
<p>Thanks!!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Harvard is really unpleasant, for more reasons than I want to enumerate here.</p></li>
<li><p>The nicer weather at Stanford makes it harder for people to rationalize their depression and also to find other things to complain about. Plus, there are lots of Californians at Stanford. Ugh!</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Go Bulldogs!</p>
<p>There are several Yale or Stanford threads on this forum. My take (I was dating someone at Stanford for a time and spent one summer there) was my residential and social situation at Yale was better and I wouldn’t have wanted to switch at all. </p>
<p>But the Palo Alto weather is incredible, w/o a doubt!</p>
<p>Go to Bulldog days?</p>
<p>I cannot speak about Stanford, but I can about Harvard and Yale.</p>
<p>Based upon what i’ve experienced through my children’s eyes, Yale is the “happier” school. A little background: My daughter is a junior at Harvard and my son is a sophomore at Yale. Much of the below is a compilation of what they have shared with me and what I have observed as a parent.</p>
<p>One clear difference between the schools is the schedule: Harvard’s schedule is much more intense! During the fall semester, Harvard students do not get a break from their studies, except for Thursday and Friday of Thanksgiving week. Yale students, on the other hand, are off for 5 days in mid-October for fall break and have the entire week of Thanksgiving off. To a lesser extent, the same thing occurs in the spring semester: Harvard students have one week off for spring break; Yale students have two weeks off. Between semesters, Harvard has a five-week winter break encompassing Christmas and New Year’s, while Yale has about a three week break during the same time period. </p>
<p>Another difference between the schools is housing. Harvard’s residential college system is a three-year program that starts in a student’s sophomore year. Harvard freshman live, eat and socialize together in Harvard Yard, but they do not belong to a residential house overseen by a Master and Dean. As a result, there is a lot of opportunity for freshman to bond with other freshman, but little opportunity for Harvard freshman to bond with sophomores, juniors and seniors, unless they meet through an extracurricular activity or a class. </p>
<p>Yale’s residential college system is a four-year program. Yale freshman eat and socialize with sophomores, juniors and seniors in their residential college, so there’s much more of a “big-sib, little-sib” atmosphere to the entire school. As a freshman, you can sit down next to an upperclass student and start up a conversation over a meal, or you can attend one of your residential college’s events (ski trip, cruise, picnic, etc) and meet upperclass students. That just doesn’t happen for Harvard freshman.</p>
<p>Yale seems to have better food options. While this is certainly subjective, both my son and daughter agree, as each has visited the other and sampled the food. One reason for this may be that Harvard’s Dining Service is run by one centralized executive chef, so the food is basically the same in every DH every day. At Yale, each residential college has their own executive chef who can deviate from the main menu, so long as they provide some of the basics. So, one Yale dining hall has a brick oven pizzeria, while another DH has a special noodle bar, another DH provides lox, cream cheese and bagels for breakfast, etc. Although residents of each Yale college have priority, any student from another college can eat in any dining hall after the first 1.5 hours of breakfast, lunch, or dinner.</p>
<p>For our family, the biggest difference between the schools has been the “social tone.” </p>
<p>The “social tone” of a college results from decisions, large and small, made by the administration on issues such as physical space and its use, housing, how freshman are welcomed and integrated into campus life, what role upperclass students play as advisors and mentors, what role graduate students play, how readily faculty members volunteer to host events or trips, etc. </p>
<p>For our family, the “social tone” can be best summed up as, “At Harvard, students are on their own. At Yale, students are all in it together.” </p>
<p>Let’s take move-in day, for example:</p>
<p>At Harvard, freshman move-in to their dorms on the first day the campus opens to students. The majority of sophomores, juniors and seniors move in several days later, so most upperclass students are not in residence when freshman arrive. Freshman, and their parents, unpack the car, lug stuff up to their room and get acclimated on their own and with the help of their roommates. At the end of move-in day, parents say their goodbyes, and freshman go off to a series of orientation meetings and freshman-only events. </p>
<p>At Yale, sophomores, juniors and seniors move-in to their dorms on the first day the campus opens. Several days later, freshman move-in to their dorms with the HELP of upperclass students. Freshman year at Yale during move-in day, our car was literally swarmed by 30 upperclass students who unpacked our son’s belongings and carried them up to his room. In the afternoon, there was a student-parent reception at the master’s house, followed by a dinner for freshman with upperclass students in their colleges, and in the evening, there was a one huge party for the entire campus. </p>
<p>That kind of welcome set the tone for my son’s time at Yale – and all of it was a well orchestrated plan by Yale’s administration to create a vibrant campus environment that fosters hard work, unity and FUN. There’s an old expression in Cambridge: “Mother Harvard doesn’t coddle her young.” That’s a positive way of saying “Harvard’s administration seems to lack the imagination or the desire to make the campus into a warmer and more inviting place.” IMHO, Harvard’s “social tone” would be much improved if the school were run by Yale’s administration, or at the very least, Harvard adopted a more student-centric approach to campus life.</p>
<p>FWIW: My daughter and son’s experience pretty much mirrors this two-part Crimson article: [The</a> Cult of Yale | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/20/the-cult-of-yale-bfor-god/]The”>The Harvard Crimson) and [The</a> Cult of Yale, Part II | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/20/the-cult-of-yale-part-ii/]The”>The Harvard Crimson)</p>
<p>Brightjules,</p>
<p>Where are you from, and have you visited all three of the campuses? I would be surprised that someone who has visited them all does not have a favorite, or at least would have eliminated one of them, because they do feel different.</p>
<p>I have/had Ds at Harvard and Yale, and I used to live near Stanford and visited its campus numerous times for various reasons over the years.</p>
<p>As a CA resident, I would not choose Stanford if I had all three choices. Its architecture and setting is nothing special for someone who has lived in CA for most of his/her life. Palo Alto is a nice town, but it is small; the surrounding areas of San Jose are boring, and San Francisco and the beach are really too far away to visit much unless you have a car. The weather is obviously better than the other two, but it can still be quite cold (with frost) and rainy. Stanford has a beautiful football stadium, but I preferred the Harvard-Yale game over Stanford’s games. </p>
<p>My D loved H. I agree with gibby that it is not a coddling place, but my D is not the type who likes to be coddled. She is extremely independent and innately competitive and wanted an urban environment, so H was the perfect fit for her. As an alum, she is in constant contact with the many friends she made there. H was a great choice for her. And Cambridge is a great college town! I called it “Disneyland for college students” when I first visited.</p>
<p>My other D loves Yale. Her personality is different from D1: she is very social, and involved in numerous campus activities. My impression is that Yale probably is more “nurturing” than Harvard. Personally, I did not like the campus and neighborhood when I first visited, but over the years I have come to love it. When people ask me which I would choose if I had the choice (and I get asked this not infrequently), I say Yale for best overall college experience. Having said that, Harvard would be very hard to turn down, if I really had the choice.</p>
<p>I agree with Bay that Harvard would be hard to turn down. However, CA is at the forefront of the environmental movement and tends to lead the nation/world on environmental science and issues. If environmental science is a passion, it is best to be in geographical proximity to a place where new regulations based on solid research get enacted. So, that would make Stanford hard to turn down. I would say the choice should be between Stanford and H for someone in your situation.</p>
<p>Gibby, that was a great post! My daughter chose Yale over Stanford some years ago, but she was a humanities person and thought Yale would be stronger for her. But there were other reasons as well. As a CA kid, she thought it would be interesting to experience a different part of the country. Stanford has a more sunny laid-back feeling, although the students work hard. Yale is a highly intense place – not cut-throat, but everyone is doing a lot of things and there is a big emphasis on your co-curricular life. The RC system is a better housing system, but I would say that the biggest difference is the calendar, with Stanford being on a quarter system and Yale on a semester system. You can sample more on the quarter system, but it can be argued that there is more depth in the semester system. I love the Yale calendar as a parent because my kids could come home on Thanksgiving and had that great two-week break in spring. Palo Alto has the better climate, but there is not much else the town has to offer to college students although you can travel to Berkeley and even San Francisco. New Haven, is also not the ideal town, but you can take a train to NYC. I think both schools have a high happiness quotient for students and you’d probably do well at either one. I’d encourage you to go to Admit Days at both. Both schools do a good job on their Admit Days and I think you can get the feel of both places pretty well by visiting. Good luck!</p>
<p>My impression (though not based on facts) is that Stanford would be best for environmental science. Stanford likes to be cutting edge and entrepreneurial on new technology and CA is a state that usually pushes the forefront of green legislation.</p>
<p>Stanford is #2 in US NEWS graduate school ranking in environmental engineering. Harvard and Yale are out of top 10. See [Best</a> Environmental Engineering Programs | Top Engineering Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/environmental-engineering-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/environmental-engineering-rankings)</p>
<p>datalook, unless the OP is planning on graduate school those rankings are meaningless.</p>
<p>Disclosure - DS is accepted at Yale, wait listed at Harvard and rejected from Stanford.</p>
<p>I can only speak to the graduates of the schools that I know, had pleasure to meet.
Do not know any grads of Stanford College, but know several who have graduated from Yale and Harvard. Yale grads seem to be more laid back, relaxed, less intense, they smile more often and overall they have achieved more in life. Harvard grads seem to be intense and unhappy, even if they have achieved tremendous things. It almost feels like they are in competition with the world even now, while in their middle ages. Maybe it is just the people I know, but my kids seem to agree.
Another thing that I can’t explain is the Harvard grads being obsessed with their offspring attending the school, while the Yale grads could not care less…generalization, I know, but this is what I have observed…</p>
<p>Well, it does matter in that if he wants to do any research as an undergrad, he would likely be associated with people who are at the forefront in environmental science/engineering.</p>
<p>Try visiting each school if you can to get a feel for what it would be like. I don’t know about Environmental Science between Yale or Harvard, but I would imagine that Stanford would have the strongest program, especially in Environmental engineering.</p>
<p>That being said, I don’t doubt that Harvard and Yale still have world class programs. At Harvard you could take classes at MIT as well I believe. But my guess is that all 3 are fairly comparable academically.</p>
<p>Weather is nicest in Palo Alto though! :D</p>
<p>@Kelowna: Like you said, those are generalizations. My experience has been the exact opposite. The Yale graduates I’ve met seemed unhappy, and when I asked them about their experiences they talked about it very passively. Not bad, just passive. While the Harvard grads I’ve met were all very excited to talk about their school, and how they loved every second there, and just seemed happier overall.</p>
<p>However, as hard as it is, I try to not let this affect my decision between Harvard and Yale, since that is a very small sample of people (4 Yale grads and 5 Harvard grads.)</p>
<p>OP mentioned environmental science, not environmental engineering. The Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies is world renowned and connected and there are many opportunities for undergraduates to take courses there or go to lectures and seminars. The Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Geology and Geophysics departments are also good, with many opportunities for undergraduates to participate in research, and cool facilities such as the Peabody Museum and the Center for Earth Observation. Just to say, I don’t think Yale would be a lesser choice academically, and if the OP feels it would be a “happier” place, then…</p>
<p>Thanks so much to everyone who has weighed in on this thread. DD is choosing between H, Y, and P. She is interested in international relations, which makes Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson School very appealing. And its open to every undergrad, unlike the IR program at Yale. However, she (and we) absolutely love everything we’ve read about the social life and community of Yale. Can someone comment on what it is like to go to Yale as an IR person who majors in politics (i.e. does not get into the ultra competitive undergrad IR program at Yale)?</p>
<p>The program DD would love to be in at Yale is the Jackson Institute, which apparently only takes 50 kids from each class (sorry, senior moment occurred during my earlier post!). It just burns my grits that after you do enough to be admitted to Yale you still can’t major in whatever you want…</p>
<p>floraandfauna - The Global Affairs major you’re speaking of has only been around for a few years - i.e. its first class of majors is graduating this year. The normal IR major, on the other hand, has been around for a long time and is nearly indistinguishable from Global Affairs.
Also, you’re right that they only take 50 or so students per class, but given that last year only 55 applied, and at least some of them only applied because they couldn’t think of anything better to major in, it’s not much of an issue. And, as I said, if for some reason your daughter didn’t get into Global Affairs, she could always do IR. </p>
<p>The only major that people seem to have trouble getting into here is EP&E, and even that has an acceptance rate of over 50%.</p>
<p>how is Yale’s EPE compared to Oxford’s PPE - do you know?</p>