http://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/index.cfm?PID=31199
If I allow my child to attend a school like Liberty, is he or she at a severe disadvantage later on for advanced study, medical school, etc. In terms of being prepared? In terms of perception? Both?
Should the link ease my mind any at all?
For Liberty in particular, there may be issues whenever a topic in biology touches on evolution.
http://www.newsadvance.com/news/local/article_6ac02b19-bedc-5184-8097-32c25dc66aa5.html
This is not necessarily the case for other schools affiliated with a Christian religion.
http://www.baylor.edu/biology/index.php?id=77368 (note: Southern Baptist, like Liberty)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865557613/Science-and-faith-Navigating-the-world-of-discovery.html?pg=all
http://biology.nd.edu/graduate-program/fields-of-study/ecology-evolution-and-environmental-sciences/
Your link was duly noted… but this is the more worrisome Liberty factoid. Its infamous ‘History of Life’ class:
“presenting the evidence and arguments for creation and against evolution. This course is required for all Liberty students.”
How do you think those with a science background might react?
Personally, I don’t know if having a degree from Liberty would hurt a med school applicant. But I can see a scenario where an admission committee has to choose between two similar candidates – one a graduate of Liberty, another of Regular State U – and decides against LU just because of its very controversial reputation in academic circles.
The theory of evolution is the fundamental underpinning of all modern work in the life (and hence bio-medical) sciences. Your son needs to have a full command of that theory, and its implications, in order to be successful in a life-science field. Most people who are not biology professors at institutions like Liberty find it very difficult to understand that anyone can accept evolutionary theory in their academic and professional life while rejecting it in their religious life. Can your son live like that? If he can’t, then there are many other colleges and universities that will not require him to do so.
About that link:
It is nice that this professor has pulled in some money from the State of Virginia that enabled him to provide his students with opportunities to participate in scientific research, however it is not unusual for professors at small universities to do that. After all, part of their job is to help train up the next generation of experts in their own field of study. $40,000 is nice money for a small lab at a small university, but it as far as grants go it is peanuts. If the money had come from the NSF, the NIH, or the Alzheimer Association, or if it were larger (upwards of $100,000) there truly would be something to talk about.
My guess is that your son, or whoever found the link for him to pass on to you, was more interested in the parts of the articles that had do do with the fact that the professor is a Liberty grad himself and completed his Ph.D. at Cornell, and the information about where some of his students have presented posters, and where they have gone after graduating. The posters were presented at a state meeting which is not unusual for college students to do. What would be note-worthy would be presentations at national or international meetings. I also don’t think that the grad school admissions are out of the ordinary. This is what one would expect from any decent college or university - some graduates get into a fill-in-famous-name. Which is to say that (much like almost every other college or university in the country) Liberty is a place where a student can get a decent education if they take advantage of what is available there.
And whoops, sorry for turning “my child” into “son”. I really shouldn’t be writing this late at night.
I would think that a graduate of Wheaton (IL), Grove City, or Baylor would be in a better position.
Liberty raises eyebrows in many quarters.
Don’t colleges keep records about applicants to medical schools, PhD programs, MD/PhD programs? What sort of success rate do Liberty students have? Does anyone know? The statistics must exist somewhere. Maybe on the website?
Are they successful in applications to Liberty University College of Osteopathic Medicine?
I am a Christian whose son is considering Gordon College, but I don’t think I’d be comfortable sending him to Liberty. A school should not be focused on getting you to see their POV, as the “History of Life” course at Liberty suggests. Evolution is not incompatible with biblical teaching and an honest institution will let the truth speak for itself and give its students the tools to seek it out.
I appreciate all your perspectives very much. In terms of what I am advocating to my son, what I really appreciate is an environment where both views, warts and all, can be rigorously defended, challenged and explored. I am finding that to be hard to come by. Doesn’t seem to exist at state U or at Liberty at least.
I don’t think it is appropriate in all classes, for class time to be taken up with challenging what the professor is there to teach. Especially something like intro science classes.
By saying " both views", are you alluding to the idea that you think creationism is equal to evolution?
The theory of evolution is taught as a theory at many religious schools without a conflict between creationism. Simply, here is the theory. Learn it. I don’t see the problem really but I do agree that many will find an issue with a Liberty degree. Does BYU also have this issue I wonder.
See the link above for an article about BYU on this subject.
As noted above, Baylor is also Southern Baptist, so that can be an option for someone looking for a school with that affiliation.
This is all I have been able to locate.
http://www.liberty.edu/aboutliberty/index.cfm?PID=26759
You raise an interesting point. Does 100% percent acceptance in 2010 include those who applied to multiple schools but were only accepted at Liberty?
I think the dilemma here is wanting a college where there is open debate on the issue of evolution vs. creationism. You won’t really find it at Liberty, or some other conservative Christian colleges, because there is an official position on the issue. At most colleges, while there won’t be an official position, there won’t be much debate, either, because the vast majority of students and faculty will share the point of view that evolution is the reality. There may be some discussion of the issue in some philosophy or religion classes, but not in biology classes.
Perhaps the kind of debate that is desired would be found at some less-conservative church-affiliated schools where there might be many students and even some faculty who are creationists, but also many who are not. For example, what position (if any) does Wheaton (Il.) take on this issue?
Claiming 100% admission to medical school with no tangible details, from an academically weak (based on admission stats) university like Liberty, sounds very dubious. If it was real, they would be listing actual numbers of students and actual names of medical schools.
Also, many religious people do consider evolution to be compatible with their religion’s creation story, so there is no either-or for them.
They have a med school, a law school and a nursing school, in addition to advanced degrees in divinity. It seems it would be possible for someone to choose that sort of education for undergraduate studies and stay there for graduate school. It seems to me a good choice for someone who shares those views.
Echoing Hunt, I don’t think you will find many schools where there will be any interest in debating evolution, either in class or in late night “meaning of life” discussions. Maybe I’m wrong about that. My impression is that most state schools don’t get into religious studies much at all. A few very competitive flagships do have depts of religion. I doubt they debate evolution. You may find some students interested in that debate in various Divinity schools around the country. jmho.
ETA: Can anyone suggest colleges where there might be debate regarding creationism/evolution and literal interpretation of the bible? I can’t think of any place this would take place in an undergraduate classroom, but I have not really investigated the Christian schools. I would be very interested in the answer to that question.
I know nothing more about this school than that it is a Christian liberal arts college where my daughter used their telescopes during a summer science program (SSP for those who care) a few years ago. I don’t know how selective they are, or their particular views on evolution and creationism. http://www.westmont.edu/