Clark VS Holy Cross differences

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of the Holy Cross
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<p>I've already been accepted to Clark and I applied RD to HC. I've read that the two schools are very different. </p>

<p>A Clark student told me, "I think Clark and Holy Cross are complete opposites. Holy Cross is much more preppy, and from what I know about my friend who went there, its just a bunch of rich white people. If you fit in at one, you probably won't fit in at the other, because Clark is the complete opposite of Holy Cross."</p>

<p>Holy Cross is def the best school academically on my list, but also the biggest reach. It will be hard to pass if I get in. I'm just worried about fit. I applied to mostly CTCL schools (Clark, Wooster, Lawrence, Earlham, Juniata, Allegheny, Ursinus, etc). I am Catholic, but a non practicing one. I'm very liberal, so I'm worried if I'll fit in or not. How conservative is it? My alumni interviewer told me it was pretty conservative, but she graduated back in 1995. Also, how preppy and rich is the school? The alumni also noted that HC has a lot of legacies and rich people. She noted there wasn't much diversity either. I asked about politics (which is a pretty big deal for me) and she said at HC politics weren't a big deal and that kids usually just voted for who their parents voted for. Right now, I kind of see HC similar to Hobart and William Smith (re: richness + preppyness). How would you compare Wheaton College in Norton to these two schools as well? </p>

<p>I'm really interested in the consortium, but the HC alumni said that HC students don't really take classes at Clark, but Clark students take classes at HC. She noted that the Clark students thought HC kids were stuck up and rich. She was telling me how much bigger Clark was when they're about the same size. I know her info is outdated, but it something to consider. Do HC students take classes elsewhere? The area of HC seems more suburban then Clark and nicer IMO.</p>

<p>How religious is HC? I live in Georgia. One of the reasons I want to move up north is because I want more liberals. How conservative is the HC faculty? Do you think coming from Georgia will help me with admissions? The alumni said I was the only student she interviewed this whole admission cycle. I have a 3.4, so it's obviously a reach. One of the reasons I love Clark is because of the Holocaust Studies program and they have a free master program. But HC is much better academically. I'm also concerned about grade deflation? I've read that HC has a lot of it. Would it be a bad idea to go to school at a reach? I really want a good GPA and don't want to struggle just to get a B. </p>

<p>I know HC meets full need and based on the early estimators it would be the most affordable. </p>

<p>How big is greek life at HC? How big is the football program and the athletics? I'm also really interested in study abroad, so a strong program in that is important. </p>

<p>I've also read this CC thread about a visit to both schools: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/79001-visit-clark-holy-cross.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/79001-visit-clark-holy-cross.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What other differences would you note between the two? I know not many students apply to both these schools. I plan on visiting both Clark and HC (if admitted) during spring break.</p>

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<p>I would visit both, for the day if you can. Both are good schools and youā€™re correct there is a different feel to both. HC is rigorous and my daughter says there is definitely NO grade inflation or curves, at least in her classes. She liked it more than Clark and her brother, 6 years ago liked Clark more (Psych major) Holy Cross has gotten more diverse and had 25% minority/International ratio last year to my memory.
HC does like geographical diversity and interestā€¦so email, visit, interview, online chat etc. if you can.
My son didnā€™t end up at Clark, his first choice, but Drew Univ because of aid but he did like both and Drew ended up being very good for him and he got a solid education. Clarkā€™s endowment wasnā€™t large and they couldnā€™t compete with other colleges at the time in scholarships. We went twice to vist and everyone was very nice. Clark is more laid back but HC students are very friendly also which I noted on visting before my daughter enrolled. It wasnā€™t as sterlie as my son saw it but he did see it last on a long day of tours. Even today we joke a door is always held for you and Iā€™ve had students walk me someplace instead of givng me directions. They are preppy at HC but not everyone is ā€œJ Crewā€, many like my daughter live in jeans and tee shirts or athletic wear. No Frats but they do party and my daughter wishes they did that less but did find some like-minded friends. She is not conservative and has met many liberal students. Many go to church, many donā€™t, and most of her friends are from other countries/religions.They have transportation off campus to Providence, Boston and various stores for free every weekend and trips scheduled depending on the season. I donā€™t know how it is at Clark, but Iā€™d look into that. The neighborhood in Wooster isnā€™t ideal, and itā€™s nice to leave sometimes.
Study abroad at Holy Cross is wonderful but usually for a full year. My daughter is applying for a summer program that Holy Cross does with Clark if aid is available. I have seen Clark sweatshirts waiting for the shuttle but donā€™t think many take classes off campusā€¦some of that might be time and class schedules.
We visited Wheaton and no one liked itā€¦seemed more white and preppy than HC and more isolated but that was just our opinion. My son said heā€™d go stir-crazy there and at the time transportation was limited.
I hope you can visit classes, etc. and see what ā€œfitsā€ for you and hopefully if money is an issue, that will work out also.</p>

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<p>Debruns,</p>

<p>Thanks for all the info you have given about your personal experiences with these schools. Iā€™m currently a junior, and extremely interested in holy cross.
I was wondering if you could tell me more about the school?
What are the kids like? (wealthy? Preppy? Nice?)
Does your daughter enjoy the school?
How are their career and internship services? </p>

<p>If you donā€™t mind me asking, could you give an idea of yours daughters stats, which allowed her to get into holy cross. Iā€™d like to compare them to mine and see how far of a reach it may be. Thanks</p>

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<p>Iā€™m an HC freshmen now. I kind of agree that this school has some legacies and I do think that many kids here dress preppy and come from rich families, but I find the impression that many students here are incredibly friendly! During my first month here thatā€™s what I started to love about this school: the friendly atmosphere. The door holding that Debruns mentioned, yeah ā€¦ That happens a lot haha. I find that really funny too! Iā€™ll share a story of a little random act of kindness for you. Holy Cross sometimes have recruits or Perspective students staying in with some students for a few days. Iā€™m not sure which program she was involved in, but I could clearly see she wasnā€™t from around here. She had luggage in her hands, looking all disheveled and out of nowehere this guy swoops in and asks her if she needed help with that. He grabbed her things, opened the door for her, and carried her stuff inside the dorm building. He doesnā€™t even know this girl I was standing by the door waiting for my friend when I saw this and I found that to be incredibly sweet! Donā€™t associate rich & preppy to being rude. Iā€™m nowhere near rich, preppy, or white for that matter haha. Yes, youā€™ll see some people wear preppy clothes like J Crew, boat shoes, etc., but thereā€™s a handful of other people who wear athletic and relaxing clothing. Itā€™s also true that this is a majority white school, but like Debruns has mentioned before, HC has gotten more diverse with a quarter of the student population being the minority and probably will continue to rise. I was worried about this stuff just like you, (and I even posted a similar thread on the HC boards a white ago) but I love it here :)</p>

<p>The campus has more of a suburban vibe here compared to Clark. Lots of greenery, open space and ivy covered buildings. Itā€™s a beautiful campus!</p>

<p>Holy Cross is actually pretty liberal for a Catholic school. There are people who go to Mass, and then thereā€™s people who donā€™t. I donā€™t. I know a lot of people who donā€™t. I know some people who are even athiest. </p>

<p>There is no Greek system here, however thereā€™s a good chunk of people who like to party. But thereā€™s always going to be a good group of people who donā€™t, so donā€™t worry!</p>

<p>We also have division 1 sports so athetlics is important here. We have school spirit and purple pride! :)</p>

<p>If you want to ask more questions, feel free to PM me!</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone. Besides Clark being less preppy/rich and a more relaxed vibe how else would you compare the two? Do you feel left out from the preppy kids? I have never even been to a J Crew, I donā€™t even know anyone who shops there. But then again, I donā€™t live in the northeast. Would you say the rich kids gloat their money? Being the typical middle class citizen, would you feel out of place? Is it hard not to have a car at HC? Are freshman even allowed to have them? Do most people just fly into Boston? Do people just take the train to Boston to Worcester? I know you said the school is pretty liberal, but are professors as liberal as the students? In your classes, do your professors lean one way or the other? Do you know a lot of people who take classes with the consortium? If so, which colleges do they usually take classes at? How far is Clark from HC? Iā€™ve read Worcester in general isnā€™t the safest city in the world, has safety been a problem at HC? Maybe this is more of a Clark issue since itā€™s more urban. Thanks so much!</p>

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<p>Re rich students, my daughter said the difference between HC and some preppy private schools near us, was that students she met were rich but didnā€™t talk about it or expect you to be the same. Only one student seemed to think it was odd she hadnā€™t traveled much, etc. I wrote on the ā€œcampus reviewā€ page a few years back how nice some students were to us on a tour that went awry. I have never in going to various campusā€™s with my other children had as much help as I had at HC : )
As far as going to Boston, they have trains, if you donā€™t want to use the free transportation on the weekend.<br>
This is a good link for getting off campus:
[Getting</a> Around | College of the Holy Cross](<a href=ā€œhttp://www.holycross.edu/studentlife/worcester/about/getting_around.html]Gettingā€>http://www.holycross.edu/studentlife/worcester/about/getting_around.html)</p>

<p>Not everyone loves their professors all the time, Iā€™m sure, but my daughter has only had one in 2 years that she didnā€™t like. A couple she tried to get again because she loved them so much. I hope that continues because it helps with all the workload. She never mentoned any being very left or right, it any were extreme Iā€™m sure she would have.</p>

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<p>Every school is going to have their share of preppy, rich, or what you may conceive to be obnoxious kids. In college, you are going to form your own set of friends that are like minded to you, and the rest wont matter. I can guarantee that either school will have other students that you can bond with. You donā€™t need to like the entire student body, such as Iā€™m sure you donā€™t like or bond with all your current classmates. Pick your school with your instincts and the rest will fall into place.</p>

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<p>Thanks Debruns! I know your daughter said the academics are rigorous with no grade inflation/curving, can you explain further? Is it hard to just get Bā€™s? I know with work and effort one can accomplish what they sent there mind to, but I know HC is known for being very hard. I know each school will have their share of preppy/rich kids. I just asked because HC has been known as preppy. But I do agree GA2012Mom that I will find friends anywhere I go.</p>

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<p>Honestly, depending on what classes you take, what professors you have, and what your major is, it can be either easy/hard to get Bā€™s (or Aā€™s, Cā€™s, etc.). I know this wasnā€™t the straightforward answer you were looking for, but itā€™s the truth. Back when I was applying last year, I saw that the average GPA was a 3.3 for HC students. I know some people who got 3.9ā€™s this semester. I know some bio/premed students who got around 3.4ā€™s. Some people found chemistry hard and even dropped out, but I found it fairly easy. Some people find biology hard, and I agree with them. I personally found that course to be rigorous and it kicked my butt. As a bio/premed major, I know people who have dropped out of their intended major because it was too hard for them. I know of some people who excel in the sciences. Itā€™s all based on the individual.</p>

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<p>early_college, I used to live around there, and both colleges were considered roughly equal academically. I donā€™t know why you assume Holy Cross is so much better.</p>

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<p>Itā€™s not known for gut courses, my daughter found some courses a joy, some like Accounting took up a lot of time, long exams and sets and gave her angst. Her friend allmost quit Bio but hung in and now still complains but gets through with more ease. He sees somewhat what graduates have told me, like a dentist I met. He said, "I graduated from HC, ā€œIt kicked my butt, but Georgetown Dental didnā€™t as it did some of my peers, I was used to more work because they prepared me wellā€.
That is more the Bio majors, but if you want to do it, you will. They have support, small classes, great professors and want you to succeed.</p>

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<p>Schmaltz- The HC alumni told me HC was considered two tiers above Clark. However, her opinion is obviously biased. If you look at other things such as acceptance rates, HC is much harder to get into. But I love Clark and itā€™s actually one of my top choices. HC is a reach. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone else! I am interested in anthropology and drama at HC. Iā€™m much more of a language Arts person and social studies person then a math/science person. I hope HC offers other science classes besides the usual chem/bio/physics. But also, I really like the consortium. If I go to Clark, I can always just take Italian at HC because Clark doesnā€™t offer it. Does any other HC student or parent have any personal experience with the consortium?</p>

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<p>Can someone tell me my chances too.
I am From Jamaica and I applied to College of the holy cross too. I would love to know what you think my chances are . My gpa is 3.2 out of 4, The school system is different here than in America so we donā€™t have any honors but we do have a grade 13. Which is like pre college courses or AP. So i am taking advanced History, English and sociology. I will not be submitting my SATs but this is what I got.
I am the vice secretary of UNESCO
Vice treasurer of KEY club
President of the cultural society re-establishment committee
in the tennis club
in the field hockey club
I only participate within my school for the sports.
I am a member of the departing society and
The inter school christian fellowship.
I volunteer at an animal shelter and teach adults and children how to read and do math in my churchā€™s adult education program.
In Jamaican public high schools we do not have class rankings but at the end of grades 11, grade 12 and grade 13 every school in the Caribbean takes the same exam. These are like our end of high school exams. Grade 12 students take an exam that is called the Caribbean advanced proficiency exam in each subject. in 2011 i took the exam and ranked 10th in Caribbean for the history exam (out of 1890 students from 10 different islands). What do you think my chances are?
Oh yeah I am a black girl from Jamaica</p>

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<p>ā€œThe HC alumni told me HC was considered two tiers above Clark. However, her opinion is obviously biased.ā€</p>

<p>Yes, I would suggest you find a more unbiased source; also, difficulty to get accepted isnā€™t a great way to determine academic quality.</p>

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<p>According to the Princeton Review Academic Ratings:</p>

<p>Holy Cross Academic Rating: 95
Clark University Academic Rating: 85</p>

<p>[School</a> Search](<a href=ā€œCollege Search - Sch: College]School | The Princeton Reviewā€>College Search - Sch: College | The Princeton Review)</p>

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<p>Holy Cross and Clark are not far from each other - maybe 1-2 miles. The settings are totally differently. Holy Cross is on a steep hill with views to the north ( our tour guide said that she could see her house from campus but wanted to live on campus because it was so much fun.) The campus is beautiful and grand but you need to like hills. It is somewhat separated from the city by a highway.</p>

<p>Clark is in the city - essentially integrated with the city . It has a flat campus and is ā€˜cozierā€™. The areas are very urban around it. So you need to be ready for that aspect.</p>

<p>I know people who have gone to both and both have sincere friendly students. Not sure about Clark, but many at Holy Cross double major. </p>

<p>You really need to visit because they are so different in their physical locations.</p>

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<p>early_college,
I grew up in Worcester and currently reside downtown. IĀ’m unbiased as I went to a different college in Worcester, but if I could choose between Clark and Holy Cross, I would say that if you can get into Holy Cross and can afford it, there are few better choices you could make. HC has ivy prestige, is on a beautiful campus and is probably a lot more fun. They have Div 1 athletics and I occasionally drive over there for a basketball, hockey or football games and always enjoy it. Great atmosphere! </p>

<p>You mentioned safety in an earlier post. Holy Cross is up on a hill overlooking the city. (Great view by the way) Clark is situated in the Main South section of Worcester. Not the greatest area on the planet, but the campus itself is very safe. </p>

<p>I am biased toward Worcester. I love it here! IĀ’ve lived in other parts of the country, including down south and have moved back. ItĀ’s a great city with a lot to do, close to both Boston and Providence, and NY City is roughly 2-3 hours away. The commuter rail fare to Boston is very reasonable. IĀ’ve taken it many times. </p>

<p>You also mention Ā“preppinessĀ” Ā“politicsĀ” and academic rigor.<br>
As I mentioned, I occasionally go the HC campus for a football, hockey or basketball game and havenĀ’t really noticed anyone preppy. And if you do encounter a preppy person, you never know, he/she might just be a pretty good person after all. Regarding politics, when I read that you were asking if the professors are conservative, coffee spilled out of my nose as I was cracking up with laughter. I donĀ’t care what school you attend, there arenĀ’t very many conservative college professors and the ones that are conservative generally keep it to themselves. Twenty years ago when I was in college, I was conservative (lean a little more libertarian now) and didnĀ’t know of any conservative professors, but got to know many professors who were very liberal and we got along well. You can disagree with someone elseĀ’s ideology and still share a laugh occasionally. Also, almost every school has Ā“liberal clubsĀ” and Ā“conservative clubsĀ”. </p>

<p>As far as academic rigor, I would just say to make sure you arrive to class early so you can get a seat in the front, take extensive notes, ask questions, (donĀ’t be afraid to go up to your professor after class for further explanations of anything you may not have understood) study hard and thereĀ’s absolutely no reason you canĀ’t get a 4.0, regardless of the school. </p>

<p>Schmaltz,
YouĀ’re wrong! Clark University is a great school, (better than most) but Holy Cross is totally in another league. ItĀ’s up there with the ivies. Holy cross is the top ranked Catholic college in the country per the Princeton Review and US News and World Report. The Princeton Review actually has it rated 98. Harvard is 99 in comparison.<br>
Honestly though, you canĀ’t go wrong with either schoolĀ…ā€¦</p>

<p>FYI Ā– ThereĀ’s a great new book out now about 20 black students recruited to Holy Cross in the early 70Ā’s called Ā“FraternityĀ”Ā…ā€¦</p>

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<p>Thanks. Holy Cross is one of my top choices and itā€™s the only school on my list which meets full need. If I get admitted with a good financial aid package, it may be likely that I attend. It is my biggest reach out of all my schools though.</p>

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<p>I graduated from Holy Cross in the early 80ā€™s and lived near Clark as a senior. As the mother of three college students I would sleep a lot better if my child was at HC. Clark is in a rough area. Best of luck! You have some great options.</p>

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<p>Funny, I was JUST on HCā€™s campus. (My mom is a full-time professor there, and my dad recently taught a course; Iā€™m a student at another school in the consortium, QCC.) I have also spent a lot of time at Clark. So.</p>

<p>HC students tend to be conservative, but theyā€™re not rude about it. (The faculty, by contrast, is very liberal - it creates a weird atmosphere in some seminars, honestly.) Admissions has made a huge effort to diversify the campus in terms of race and geography, so, the preppy/rich stereotype is on its way out, but political and philosophical standpoints continue to be pretty homogeneous. And, of course, most students are really into their religion.</p>

<p>Itā€™s possible to be liberal (and not especially religious) and have an adequate social experience at HC. The question, I suppose, becomes whether or not you want to make that concession for 4 years.</p>

<p>If youā€™re more artistically inclined and are actively seeking a liberal environment, I would go for Clark. Itā€™s got great programs in performing arts and social sciences and the curriculum is pretty much built around celebrating iconoclasm. Clarkies are much quirkier, and much more open, than HC students.</p>

<p>I understand that HC is prestigious - and, yes, itā€™s got a much nicer campus - but I think what a lot of people forget is that choosing a college isnā€™t about taking what you can get in terms of prestige; itā€™s about finding a good match.</p>

<p>If you have any more specific questions, feel free to PM me. I practically grew up on both campuses.</p>