Clashing Over Church Ritual and Flag Protocol at the Naval Academy Chapel

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08chapel.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1204977924-UhHNVQS+2H/L51DFDgYrsQ%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08chapel.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1204977924-UhHNVQS+2H/L51DFDgYrsQ&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>ANNAPOLIS, Md. — On Sundays at the Naval Academy Chapel, at a few minutes past 11 a.m., the choir stops singing and a color guard carrying the academy flag and the American flag strides up the aisle.</p>

<p>Below a cobalt blue stained-glass window of Jesus, one midshipman dips the academy flag before the altar cross, and the other dips the American flag.</p>

<p>The dipping of the flag has begun this nondenominational Protestant service at the Naval Academy for 40 years. But in civilian life, the American flag is never to be dipped, and the Navy says, it is not dipped at any other worship service at the academy or at any other installation.</p>

<p>In October, after the academy’s superintendent, Vice Adm. Jeffrey L. Fowler, raised questions about the ritual with the academy chaplains, they suspended the flag-dipping because “there was a concern over teaching midshipmen something not practiced anywhere in the fleet,” the academy’s spokesman, Cmdr. Ed Austin, said in an e-mail message.</p>

<p>But the pause lasted only a few months. Now the flags are being dipped again, and the superintendent, who has held his post since June, has stopped attending the 11 a.m. service. Evangelical Christians and their critics alike assert that the academy had to reconsider after an outcry by congregants and alumni.</p>

<p>“I think the ceremony is fully representative of the highest traditions of our country,” said Bob Morrison, who has attended the 11 a.m. service for 12 years and who heads an internship program at the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian group. “It basically says that our country is one nation under God and the nation-state is not the highest authority in the world.”</p>

<p>A spokesman for the Navy chief of chaplains, Capt. Gregory G. Caiazzo, said in an e-mail message that different bases developed their own traditions at religious services, and that “such traditions are conducted at the discretion of the command.”</p>

<p>Mikey Weinstein, a graduate of the Air Force Academy and president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a watchdog group, criticized Admiral Fowler’s decision to allow the practice to resume. “It was an incredible act of cowardice,” he said. “The oath he and others have taken is to protect and defend the Constitution, not the New Testament.”</p>

<p>Admiral Fowler declined to comment. In an e-mail message, Commander Austin said: “Discussions with the chaplains resulted in suspension of the tradition in the fall of 2007. Following continued evaluation, parading and dipping the flags was incorporated back into the 11:00 Sunday Protestant services.”</p>

<p>Each branch of the armed forces has its own flag code, said Clark Rogers, director of educational programs at the National Flag Foundation, a nonprofit organization that promotes respect for the flag. But the United States Flag Code says the flag “should not be dipped for any person or thing,” Mr. Rogers said.</p>

<p>“If the academy called me, I would tell them not to dip the flag,” Mr. Rogers said. “And I’m a very religious person.”</p>

<p>Concern about the influence of conservative Christians in the military has grown since an investigation in 2005 by the Air Force found that Christian staff and faculty members at the Air Force Academy used their positions to evangelize cadets. Conservative Christian chaplains have battled the military to break with tradition and pray in Jesus’ name at military functions.</p>

<p>Now, Specialist Jeremy Hall of the Army, an Iraq veteran and an atheist, is suing the Defense Department, with the help of Mr. Weinstein’s group, because he says his superior officer tried to intimidate him into accepting fundamentalist Christianity.</p>

<p>About 1,000 people usually attend the 11 a.m. service. After the dipping was suspended, “dozens of congregants” wrote the academy backing the practice, Mr. Morrison said. Commander Austin confirmed that most of those who contacted the academy said they supported the practice.</p>

<p>“I like that part of the ritual; it never bothered me,” said Lowell Hodgson, a retired Army lieutenant colonel after a recent service, “and I believe in the separation of church and state.”</p>

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<p>If it's not broken don't fix it</p>

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<p>Even the flag must bow before God, IMO.</p>

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<p>The article says that the flag is dipped before the cross - a Christian symbol. How does this account for Jewish, Muslim, atheist, etc. Americans? To say that the flag should bow to a Christian symbol is to say that our nation is bowing to Christianity.
I am a religious person and I do believe that "the nation-state is not the highest authority in the world." (the highest authority being God), but the rules are simple - the flag is not to be dipped for anything or anyone. To make an exception for the cross is unfair to every other religion that's represented in our nation.</p>

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<p>This occurs at the voluntary Protestant worship service. Nothing would prohibit the Jewish, Muslim, atheist, etc. doing the same at their services.</p>

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<p>
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Even the flag must bow before God, IMO.

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<p>Before whose God? :confused:</p>

<p>Soon, the flag could be dipping before many many many different gods, since we all are allowed to worship as we please and the Government is not allowed to establish a preference for one religion over another. </p>

<p>Imagine the outcry when the flag starts dipping toward Buddha or Confucius or L Ron Hubbard.</p>

<p>(Can you see the slippery slope this could become?)</p>

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<p>And indeed, as history reveals consistently, the God of the US founding, history, and tradition, like it or otherwise, is Jesus Christ. JC = God = Holy Spirit </p>

<p>Mr. Fowler has perhaps revealed one of the agendas with which he has been charged to implement, although one must wonder if he's discerned this on his own or received from on high. Guarantee it did not come from the Commander-In-Chief. </p>

<p>This one is intriguing though as the concentric circles of PC, faith (notably the Christian faith), diversity, history, tradition, and values come clashing together. Still, in the absence of an order, one would really have to question the judgement that would kick this dog. Maybe it's a strategic move to distract from that other chronic no-longer-sleeping mongrel ... the absolutely lousy chow situation that will never go away until it's addressed.</p>

<p>I'm not sure how to interpret one's alleged withdrawal from one's alleged act of worship because of a reversal on this one. Is that really true? Hard to imagine or believe. Perhaps he's simply been unavailable for services over several Sundays? </p>

<p>And of course the latest company line on that issue, which I'm told is pure fantasy, is the kitchen is understaffed (despite 100 cooks, 20 of whom were brought in on contract last fall ... enough to feed, dare we say, an "army"), and the equipment is "WW II vintage" and it's just impossible to serve a decent soy burger in a warmer that was made in 1945.</p>

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<p>Whomoever made the above statement that the flag "should not be dipped for any person or thing,” knows nothing of Navy traditions and protocol. Every since England claimed ownership of all the Oceans back in the 1300s, the subservient rendering honors by dipping their ensign and the superior acknowledging by returning same has been an ongoing practice to this very day, including our own present Navy. </p>

<p>With these traditions in mind, I would say that it would be unthinkable for a Navy man, except maybe a submariner who doesn't render or receive a lot of honors under the surface, to allow the colors to be paraded in a church without rendering proper honors by dipping them to the appropriate superior 'vessel'.</p>

<p>Normally, I would oppose the US Flag being displayed during a church service. However, military services are different and I can see the presence of the flag being a positive thing. However, it is subservient.</p>

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<p>And "history and tradition, like it or otherwise" says the US Flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. I'm pretty sure that if they wanted to make an exception to JC or God they would have stated it, as they did when they changed the Pledge of Allegiance.</p>

<p><a href="Public%20Law%2094-344,%20Section%204:%20That%20no%20disrespect%20should%20be%20shown%20to%20the%20flag%20of%20the%20United%20States%20of%20America;%20the%20flag%20should%20not%20be%20dipped%20to%20any%20person%20or%20thing.%20Regimental%20colors,%20State%20flags,%20and%20organizations%20or%20institutional%20flags%20are%20to%20be%20dipped%20as%20a%20mark%20of%20honor.">i</a>*</p>

<p>Maybe they should change the flag code, then no one could complain?</p>

<p>As long as the Christian God is being "honored", this will slide by but when a Hindu service dips the flag toward Vishnu & Shiva or a Scientology service dips the flag toward L Ron Hubbard, watch out.</p>

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<p>USNA69 - I was merely quoting the article: "But the United States Flag Code says the flag “should not be dipped for any person or thing,” Mr. Rogers said."</p>

<p>Luigi59 - good post.</p>

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<p>
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As long as the Christian God is being "honored", this will slide by but when a Hindu service dips the flag toward Vishnu & Shiva or a Scientology service dips the flag toward L Ron Hubbard, watch out.

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<p>Let's all hope and pray you're right! Amen. For that was indeed the intent of our founding fathers, altho that makes many relativists and historical revisionists chafe like all get out.</p>

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<p>Maybe we should start dipping the flag in front of a portrait of Jefferson then, if our founding fathers were so infallible and all-knowing.</p>

<p>They were human, and whether or not they intended to create a country in which one religion is placed above others is frankly irrelevant because that is NOT the basis on which we operate today. I hate to bring up the cliche', but slavery, women's suffrage, etc.</p>

<p>Our founding fathers didn't come anywhere close to the ideals of equality and freedom they espoused and it's our duty to strive for those ideals, not for the practicalities that made sense in the 18th century.</p>

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<p>Nor were the founding fathers particularly religious at all.</p>

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<p>i agree; without God and protestantism, there'd be no USA.</p>

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<p>^No one has explained how this is relevant in the current situation, or in the current age. You could use that logic to justify all kinds of ridiculous religious discrimination.</p>

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Not Jefferson, but Washington. USN ships passing Mt Vernon pay appropriate honors to George Washington, the father of our country, by dipping the ensign.</p>

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<p>
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i agree; without God and protestantism, there'd be no USA.

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<p>So you're saying that Catholicism and Orthodoxy played no part in America?</p>

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<p>


And did a pretty good job of separating church and state. However, "there are no atheists in fox holes". Our military feels an obligation to support our troops. Therefore, religion and state do mix. So the religious service becomes a government function. A government function where it is proper to display the flag. At most services, the flag is simply placed beside the altar. At the USNA 11:30 Protestant service, the colors are paraded. There is a long tradition there of dipping the US flag. With our Navy's history of using the flag to both receive and render honors, anything else would be inappropriate.</p>

<p>Admiral Fowler probably commenced with a US Code issue, the chapel members picked up a traditions precedent, and the fundamentialists have made it a religion issue. So pick whatever level you want to discuss, but be aware that another poster is probably discussing an entirely different issue.</p>

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<p>USNA69: I didn't know that. interesting fact.</p>

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<p>Then they should display it properly.</p>

<p>A military unit of the United States, displaying the flag of the United States at a religious service/government function should be following the US Flag Code to the letter, without exception.</p>

<p>It's not done at any other worship service at the academy or at any other installation.</p>

<p>It's not practiced anywhere in the fleet.</p>