support USNA voluntary noon prayer

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>ACLJ</a> • American Center for Law & Justice</p>

<p>The website listed above, has a petition of support being sent to Admiral Fowler from Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow, of the American Center for Law and Justice. The ACLJ focues on constitutional law and freedoms that constitution protects. He has argued multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. His letter of support to Admiral Fowler is compelling in both support and legal backing for the Naval Academy continuing this tradition, dating back to its founding. Please go to the above mentioned website, sign the petition of support and send this link to your contacts. This is one thing we can do to help keep this tradition in tact.</p>

<p>Stand With U.S. Naval Academy on Prayer </p>

<p>If the ACLU gets its way, it will bring an end to a time-honored tradition at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis. For more than 160 years now, there’s been mealtime prayer at noon at the Naval Academy. But the ACLU is threatening a federal lawsuit and says it will sue unless the Naval Academy ends this practice.</p>

<p>We’ve responded quickly and have sent a legal memorandum outlining the constitutionality of this practice to the Superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy. </p>

<p>We spell out clearly why the ACLU is wrong in its insistence that this voluntary prayer is unconstitutional and violates the First Amendment.</p>

<p>The Supreme Court of the United States understands the different role that the military holds in society and has noted on several occasions that “the military in important respects remains a ‘specialized society separate from civilian society.’” The high court has also said that the “different character of the military community and of the military mission requires a different application of The First Amendment.”</p>

<p>Our history is replete with references to God and to religion. These are just a few of the examples we cited in our letter:</p>

<p>In addition, given the very real threat of harm posed by their commitment to the American war effort, the signers of the Declaration of Independence concluded with an appeal “to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions” and a statement of “firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence.” Use of the slogan “In God We Trust” dates back to the War of 1812. In September 1814, fearing for the fate of his country while watching the British bombardment of Fort McHenry in Baltimore, American Francis Scott Key composed the poem the “Star Spangled Banner.” The last verse of the poem—which is now our national anthem—states: “Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto: ‘In God is our trust.’” </p>

<p>During the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address of 1863 proclaimed that “this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom.” The national motto, “In God We Trust,” first appeared on coins the following year. The Battle Hymn of the Republic—popularized during the Civil War—is replete with religious references.”</p>

<p>The fact is the lunchtime prayer at the Naval Academy is voluntary – and voluntary public acknowledgement of God is uniquely compatible with military service.</p>

<p>We also note that the lunchtime prayer is part of the very fabric of the Naval Academy:</p>

<p>A reasonable observer of the Naval Academy’s prayer tradition realizes that the practice has become engrained into the fabric of daily life at the Academy. The lunch prayer “encourages religious tolerance, aids students in reflecting on their own beliefs, and allows midshipmen to celebrate the American tradition of expressing thanksgiving.” As one parent of a midshipman recently explained, “I think the mids understand they have to live in a world of diversity, and have to learn to tolerate other religious beliefs.” A reasonable person who observes the prayer would think tradition, camaraderie, unity, and service, not sectarian strife or religious establishment.</p>

<p>In addition, Congress specifically approved of the voluntary prayer at the Naval Academy. Recognizing the importance of voluntary prayer at the Naval Academy and other federal service academies, Congress stated in 2006 that "[t]he superintendent of a service academy may have in effect such policy as the superintendent considers appropriate with respect to the offering of a voluntary, nondenominational prayer at an otherwise authorized activity of the academy, subject to the United States Constitution and such limitations as the Secretary of Defense may prescribe."</p>

<p>But the fact is, we need your help. Our legal position is clear – but we need to send a powerful message of support to the Naval Academy – asking them to stand firm and to keep the prayer in place. </p>

<p>You can make a difference and voice your support right by adding your name to our online Proclamation of Solidarity for the Naval Academy </p>

<p>The Naval Academy’s longstanding tradition of having a chaplain offer a brief word of prayer before lunch does not violate the First Amendment. The Naval Academy has not endorsed a particular religious viewpoint. We want to encourage the Naval Academy to stay the course and continue this longstanding tradition.</p>

<p>Join with us now in sending this message of support.</p>

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<p>As liberal person as I am, I have to say that I neither support nor defend noon meal prayer. I tend to sympathize with some of the midshipmen who feel uncomfortable while everyone else prays. People won't admit it, but those who choose not to pray are looked down upon, and in a professional military setting, I don't think it's fair. Afterall, if you're a sailor or marine, and things go wrong, aren't you going to hope that your leader believes in something higher? What if they don't? All of a sudden you panic because things are a whole lot scarier when we start thinking we're alone in this world. God can't be proven or disproven, so it all comes down to faith. The majority of the Naval Academy is going to support noon meal prayer, but should it come at the expense of tarnishing our future leaders' credibility? I can speak from experience that although two of my company mates are very capable leaders, they are ridiculed and ranked at the bottom because they don't believe in a God. When someone is perfectly capable, I don't think their religious beliefs should have an effect on others' confidence in them to lead, I don't think it's right.</p>

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<p>I would have no problem with the "voluntary" prayer if it were just that. As GoNavyXC points out, there sometimes are consequences for not participating. If people participate for fear of repercussions, then it is no longer an environment of tolerance, nor is it an environment welcoming of diversity. Sadly, many people are threatened by those who don't share their religious beliefs, and this issue has been particularly problematic in the military. If there were any meaningful way to prevent a backlash against those who choose not to participate, I would stand behind the efforts to maintain this tradition. However, I don't see how that is possible.</p>

<p>I'm sure this will spur an ugly debate...</p>

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<p>I have a question for current/recent midshipmen: How is the prayer performed, do midshipmen recite something at the table while the chaplain leads or is it more of a "bow your head" while the chaplain says a prayer?</p>

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<p>What happens is the chaplain will say "For those who wish to join me in prayer..." Those who wish to join will bow their heads while the chaplain says the prayer, others will pretend to bow, others just use it as time to fix their uniform, others just stand at parade rest until the prayer is over. In any case, there's always a lot of looking around and "judging" going on. I know, I'm guilty myself.</p>

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<p>I like hockey, when I go to see a game in Canada, I stand for their National anthem. It is respect for their beliefs. When Sen. Obama went to Jerusalem he wore a yarmulka(spelling???) It was respect for others beliefs. When I attended a Muslim Wedding I followed the customs at that event. Do I believe what they do, no. I respect that they are intelligent people who have strong convictions. If a person is one of the few who do not pray at a meal or does not have a belief in a higher power, I respect that, however I expect you to give me the same courtesy that I give you and allow me my freedoms. Stand and wait a moment, It will be over and we can get on with the rest of the day. Uncomfortable moments in life happen all the time, we are not guaranteed happiness in the Constitution, just the right to pursue it. So remember it is law by democracy, were the votes of the majority win and the minority has the opportunity to persuade us to their point of view. So if a few people are not happy that there is a prayer, that is life.</p>

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<p>"In any case, there's always a lot of looking around and "judging" going on. I know, I'm guilty myself"</p>

<p>And how is this any different than any other time when the brigade is standing and waiting somewhere for something to happen. We are in a competitive society, especially at USNA. You are constantly sizing eachother up, otherwise there would be no "joes" or S&*^screens or other categories of people that we make up for eachother.</p>

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<p>xchefmike, I totally agree with you. What should happen is that the people who want to pray should pray, and the people who don't want to pray should respectfully, silently pause for a moment out of consideration for their friends and classmates.</p>

<p>It should be that simple.</p>

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<p>Majority rule may work in the civilian world, but in the military it's a dangerous proposition. We're put in leadership positions, that's what makes up the big bucks. If 75% of the division said something I didn't agree with, I might honor it. If it is going to affect the welfare of my people adversely, I'm not going through with it, even if I'm the only one who stands alone.</p>

<p>People who don't believe in a higher power do stand up for prayer. People in our profession look down upon the people who don't believe in anything because of MAJORITY RULE. Since atheism is claimed to be a revisionist point of view in American society, atheists are always looked upon as scoundrels and scum of the Earth. Ask yourself, are they really bad, misguided people because they don't believe in something? I think that they can be just as honorable as the next guy, but not everyone does. They feel that if you're not guided by some higher power, then your morals or decision making abilities must be flawed in some way. </p>

<p>Let's take a step back and analyze history here for a second. Religion is in fact the revisionist point of view itself. Humans needed to invent their Gods in the ancient days to help them understand how the world worked. Understand that atheists have a legitimate point against religion because reason was there first before religion ever was. I don't question any atheist's beliefs because I'm a history major and I see the logic behind their reasoning. That's why we have to use faith. Although all of us theists look upon atheists like some evil spawn of the Earth, they have an argument against all of us believers because we use faith rather than reason or logic. In the heat of battle, which is really more important? You must realize as a leader that a person's religious beliefs shouldn't matter. In fact, atheists perhaps share a view more devine than we do-nature. With the forces of nature, what could be more devine than that? Ideology and beliefs in frivolous gods does a disservice to what nature is capable of. I think it's important for leaders to understand both sides of the faith issue and realize that we're all on the same side at the end of the day. </p>

<p>I think if there is enough objection to all of this, then someone who doesn't want to pray shouldn't have to. From their point of view, why do they have to partake in something they feel is corrupt? Whether it is or it isn't, we can't prove or disprove it either way. That is why atheists are misjudged, but really, analyze the situation and the course of history and ask who the real fools are. I'm a self-proclaimed fool because I believe in a higher power, but I don't think people (especially as conservative as the Naval Academy) could ever fathom a world where we're alone, but I'm not ignorant enough to see where that's the logical choice for some people.</p>

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<p>I'm almost 70 years old. When I was in high school, by law, we had to say the Lord's Prayer every morning. Even though I was fairly religious, I was strongly in favor of separation of church and state. I didn't bow my head and I didn't say the Lord's Prayer. No one ever said a word to me. In college, we were required to attend chapel. With a few exceptions, I deliberately studied through all "forced" worship. Again, no one said a word to me. In neither case did anyone join me - I just did my thing quietly. What is the big deal?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If it is going to affect the welfare of my people adversely, I'm not going through with it,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I’m not sure about the intent or context of your comment, but you’re potentially heading down a slippery slope as a soon to be Officer in the United States Navy or Marines. </p>

<p>I think getting shot would constitute a potentially adverse consequence to those individuals that are your subordinates and your responsibly; and yet in the orders you may be directed to follow, whether you agree with them or not, you may have to adversely affect the welfare of your people. </p>

<p>The issue under discussion in terms of the ramifications of individual choice has as much to do about human nature and our desire to be surrounded by those that tend to reinforce our beliefs rather than challenge them on a host of subjects; including religion. And yet those same people have the capacity to appreciate differences and diversity, and even assign value to that quality in many other aspects of life. </p>

<p>Take someone off the street; stand them in front of two quilts; one made up of fabric of the same colors and texture, the other made from patches in a rainbow of colors, patterns and textures. Which do you think they will choose? Most would pick the quilt that is most interesting, distinctive; full of color and patterns. </p>

<p>Now take them same person and put them into two rooms; one filled with people like them; same color, same beliefs, similar experiences and another filled with people from all walks of life, different religions; Christians, Jews, Muslims, even a few atheists for good measure… in which room do you think they will feel most comfortable? If they had to pick, which room would they prefer to stay in? </p>

<p>For many people, at least based on my life experience, faith comes with a degree of uncertainty and along with that a desire for some amount of reinforcement of their choices and values. Surrounding yourself with people that believe as you do brings with it a level of comfort and reassurance. </p>

<p>It is somewhat ironic in the sense that most atheists I’ve met are far more secure in their “absence of a belief” than many of those I have met that do believe.</p>

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<p>Just ask some one if they have faced combat if they have prayed</p>

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<ol>
<li> It's freedom OF religion. No one is saying you can't "pray" at a meal.</li>
<li> My issue is that it is government sanctioned.</li>
<li> My issue is that it gives the appearance of government sanction because there is a Chaplain who "leads" one in prayer even if it is a voluntary invitation to join, it still gives the impression of authority.</li>
<li> As such there is added judgment to those who don't participate. That is just plain wrong. Joe Blo may not judge, but Jane Doe may very well because of the "appearance" of authority and sponsorship of a particular religion. Would you still want the petition if it were a Rabbi who led the prayer according to Jewish law? How about an Inman who led according to Islamic Tradition?<br></li>
<li> Read the Treaty of Tripoli where John Adams said that this country was NOT founded in Christianity.</li>
<li> It is there very nature of state sponsored religion that led to that Nazi regime in Germany prior to the outbreak of WW2.<br></li>
<li> I have no problem if the person next to me wants to take a moment before their meal to pray...why does it have to be "organized" and "publicized?" Isn't prayer...individual?</li>
</ol>

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<p>One great thing about the military is that we will do many things as a group that we do not necessarily agree with. But, that is what we VOLUNTEERED for. Is having a prayer by the Chaplain in King Hall the wrong thing to do with all present? Should we ask those that do not want to participate in a prayer to wait outside, or should we have the prayer outside? Religion is just a tough issue to deal with and I think the military tries hard to keep believers of all faiths and non-believers happy. Where do you draw the line? I do not know and many people smarter than me have tried to figure it out. There will never be an answer that pleases everyone. It is not what the Chaplain says anyway, it is what your personal thoughts are. If the Chaplain is praying, then I recommend you use that brief moment of quiet time to do some personnal soul searching in the manner you desire. Why listen to the Chaplain if you don't want to? He is no different than one of the Professors you tune out on a daily basis (LOL)</p>

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<p>Now that I have a better understanding of what happens......</p>

<p>seriously..just bow your head for a few moments, big deal. What are you going to do at every other military function you go to after graduation when the invocation and benediction are performed. Guess what, every graduation, retirement, change of command, etc you ever go to is going to have a moment of prayer.</p>

<p>If you don't agree with the prayer being said, simply take your own time to reflect or say your own prayer. Nobody is going to have a clue what is going on in your head....heck for all I care sing some Marilyn Manson or Jay-Z or whoever to yourself.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
6. It is there very nature of state sponsored religion that led to that Nazi regime in Germany prior to the outbreak of WW2.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>huh???????</p>

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<p>"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith. . . we need believing people." (From Hitler's speech, April 26, 1933, during negotiations which led to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933.)</p>

<p>Ask virtually any Jew who went to school in Germany pre-WW2 how they felt during the mandatory school prayer. How they were treated before and after.</p>

<p>It is a way to "identify" those that don't believe in Christianity plain and simple. Once identified, they are riddiculed, judged, humiliated and often segregated. In many instances abuse is applied. </p>

<p>American is a democracy. Majority rules but not when it comes to religion. There is no "right" to Christian domination. Do people not see what happens in the Middle East when the state sponsors religion? Do people truly believe "oh that...it can't happen here?" BS!</p>

<p>"Thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men... </p>

<pre><code>"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret." - Matt. 6:5-6
</code></pre>

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<p>Put aside the whole discussion of whether voluntary noon meal prayer makes anyone uncomfortable. (shall we edit the Joint Chief of Staff speeches at USNA commissioning because he might say something of faith that makes anyone feel uncomfortable?? They had to listen to it.....see where all this slippery slope leads.)And forget that the vast, vast majority of the midshipmen are fine with the prayer and have been for decade after decade </p>

<p>But what about the United States Naval Academy, which has been preparing military leaders (and quite effectively mind you) sticking to a tradition that dates back to 1845! Are we so "enlightened" now as a people, that a small number of us will impose our small minded views on an instituition that has been training military officers for over 160 years!! Shame on the midshipmen who had the gaul to think "they" (not even officers mind you and not even in battle and not even finished the process) know better than 160 years of decision making, training, and officers at the Naval Academy. And shame on the ACLU for thinking it has ANY say in how a military officer should be trained. If midshipmen are offended or made uncomfortable by a VOLUNTARY prayer, what is next that they will go to the ACLU about....too much PT (that makes them uncomfortable) too much homework (they are imposing on my beliefs) too much in your face with chow calls (now I am very uncomfortable) and what about plebe rates?</p>

<p>Shall we start interviewing the plebes to see what happens to offend them and file suit with the ACLU? This is not hazing guys...this is voluntary prayer (and you can sit there and stare at your plate if you choose...) Grow up!! We can't have a few complainers changing USNA so we become politically correct. In case you havent' noticed, I am not sure there is much about USNA that is politically correct (guns, and war, protecting freedoms and all that). If you choose to go there (hey..no one forced you) then choose to trust the instituition that has been doing this for 160+ years. (or do 3 or 4 midshipmen in 2008 know better than all the generations that have gone on before?)</p>

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<p>BTW, the prayers are not "Christian"..sometimes a Rabbi leads. But all are to a "higher power"..you can name your own. (even yourself for those who don't believe in anything higher) Repeat..this is not a dominating Christian thing..nothing inherently Christian, or Jewish or other about it. Just invoking on that Divine Providence (that most officers will do very voluntarily in battle</p>

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<p>And if these midshipmen, can't even abide sitting through a voluntary noon meal prayer, generic and invoking whatever higher power you choose, how in the world will they be able to deal with the sailors and marines under them, who may come to them for advice, words of wisdom. On the battle front, those sailors and marines who have any kind of faith, will be looking to their leaders to help them weather the storms. Those officers, many trained at the Naval Academy, had better be able to support those under their care who have a belief system, even if the officer does not. It is called tolerance. Those officers had better be able to help their marines and sailors reach into whatever their belief system is to find the strength they need when under fire, or far away from home. If you were not able to sit through a voluntary noon meal prayer because it made you uncomfortable, how in the world are you going to handle leading diverse men and women into battle. Does their faith make you uncomfortable? Will you not be able to help them because it imposes on your belief?</p>