<p>4gsmom, I am sure that was always true for some colleges. I suspect it is true for even more colleges now.</p>
<p>Seriously folks, at $170K, I could easily afford without stretching my budget in the slightest to pay $15K out of current income. I am not as terrified of student loans as some of you, so let’s say another $6K. I could probably cut expenses to the tune of another $7K or so (vacations and eating out). The rest is savings (much reduced this past year, to be sure) and yes I will mortgage my house for D’s education. It’s not so bad.</p>
<p>Our problem, Queen’s Mom, is we have 4 daughters to put through school. Our first is a junior this year and then we have 3 more coming up the pike. We have a 6 year old - I’m guessing by the time she goes to school it’ll easily be 75K a year and we’ll long for the days of 51K!</p>
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UMich is only $12k a year? Including room board?</p>
<p>Yes, 4gsmom, 4 is very difficult. I lose sleep over 2, and only one will be in college at a time (6 year difference).</p>
<p>Still, I’m fairly upbeat. If my mother managed to put me through school on a $25K salary (yes, I got a lot of aid, but it was still immensely difficult), I should be able to do it on a much much much higher income.</p>
<p>And this is why we like public schools!</p>
<p>We will approach this in the fall with a variety of schools on S2’s list. A couple that “promise” pretty good aid packages, a couple that are crap shoots as to what the package might look at and a couple that we know are affordable where tuition is discounted according to GPA and ACT/SAT scores automatically. S2 is working hard to make sure that he will be happy at any of the schools on his list. It’s our version of the reach/match/safety but along with grades/test scores reach/match/safety we are also factoring finances. I think it’s the best strategy for us as we are one of those families where it will “just depend” on how the schools interpret our financial situation…we are cash poor/asset strong but our assets are not terribly liquid. We are not snobbish about brand name so that helps and the kids “get it” regarding the financial aspects of choosing a college.</p>
<p>I’ve long maintained that the expensive schools (note: I did not say “top” schools, since they are not the same thing) will only be filled by the poor and the rich. The middle class kids will all be getting a great education at any number of good state schools. Yes, those schools are experiencing budget cuts, but they are not going to be able to ignore the burgeoning numbers of students who want to come. They will need to adapt to survive, and will probably be better for it.</p>
<p>Students NEED a school where they can learn, grow and have access to stimulating opportunities. These needs can be met at a much wider variety of schools than many people are willing to consider (honors programs, personal attention LACs, and gasp…tier 2 schools :eek:). Top students may WANT to be surrounded by only others who share their intellectual curiosity and attend a top name brand school, but there is a big difference between a need and a want. Far too many people confuse the two. Needs are basic requirements that you should try to meet, wants are luxuries. Be prepared to pay for luxuries. I just don’t understand the mentality that because a student worked hard in hs, they earned and are entitled to attend a top school and at little to no cost. The students earned opportunites, namely the opportunity to be competitive for admission at “top” schools, and the opportunity to be competitive for special programs and merit $ at many “lower ranked” schools. Look at the positives. This is a great position to be in, but it doesn’t mean you can have your cake and eat it too. </p>
<p>BTW-We are a full freight family that feels fortunate to be in a position to be able to pay our kids’ tuitions. Like a few others have said, that’s what it is there for.</p>
<p>A typical 2-income family in these parts certainly doesn’t earn $170K+ per year…try maybe $100K. Even at that level, depending upon savings and home equity, you are looking at $25-30K per year. How is the difference between $30K and $51 K accounted for? Generally not out of the hides of the full-pay customers. Most of those private schools that charge $50K and up have sizeable endowments that take care of that (yes, even in the current economy).</p>
<p>Hudson Valley, don’t forget some of the difference between the 30k efc and the 51k in COA at a school could be in the form of student loans, work/study, and some gapping too (very few schools meet 100% of need).</p>
<p>Smith gives an average of 30k in aids per student and endowment covers 17k. There is clearly some sort of subsidy done by full pay people. The problem is with family who makes 120-170k, they get very little or no help and if they live in high cost area with multiple children that are far apart in age, they are facing 1/2 or more in cost out of their take home income after tax for a good part of closed to a decade. Merit aid is nice but not all are fortunate enough to have top 5% kids.</p>
<p>What do you mean it will be 51K? It already is!</p>
<p>But I join the chorus of those saying, “is this new news?” How is it that families think that tuition is an optional expense? Yesterday, I was looking at what our GC has to say about financial aid since it seemed to be in question whether GC’s are being honest with their students. This is the first line on our website after congratulating you on this phase of schooling.</p>
<p>Parents have primary responsibility to pay for their dependent children’s education.</p>
<p>The second thing?</p>
<pre><code>Students also have a responsibility to contribute to their educational costs.
</code></pre>
<p>Why don’t people get this? Now, maybe we’ll be looking at our state U or one of its reciprocal U’s for our younger daughter, but it will not be assumed that financial aid is in our future, although a few loans might be. Next year we estimate we’ll be paying nearly 80K in tuition and fees. </p>
<p>As an aside (or a statement of our current reality), my younger daughter and I were watching old home movies over the weekend and she noted that the furniture in the family room has been the same since she was a year old. And I said… just say, thank you. :)</p>
<p>ttparent – Within that 30K in aid are Federal grants, loans and work-study. The endowment provides for institutional aid. There may still be a small gap, but it isn’t 13K.</p>
<p>Modadunn – Do people really change their furniture every 10-15 years? Whatever happened to buying furniture you could live with for the rest of your days? Or for that matter, the days of several generations? (I am being a little bit facetious, but I do think it is great that you have avoided the sort of irresponsible overconsumption that has added to the nation’s problems with debt, overflowing landfills and sprawling “self-storage parks.”</p>
<p>Also… as someone who has worked on the annual fund at our school for the past five years, I was always under the impression that gifts to the school (that are not endowed) go to the current operating budget of the school and basically subsidize every student attending. In fact, they have laid it out that the cost of educating one child is approximately 15K more than tuition. So current tuition doesn’t cover it all. </p>
<p>One of the concerns, of course, is that there is a lot of bloat (or supposed bloat) in American’s colleges in the way of administrative costs and other salaries not related to teaching, etc. There was also a recent article in our local (large city) paper about how the rankings of USNWR and others actually drive up costs because colleges (and especially larger research universities) are forced to be constantly on guard about other schools stealing their lucrative professors who in their specialties are seen as cash cows in terms of research dollars (which raises their notoriety and draws better and brighter students). The answer seems to be to raise the salaries, their lab space and their budget for grad and other research students on order to keep them. There were professors who are making nearly half a million a year by the time it’s all calculated. And if you want to stay high in the rankings or get higher in them, U’s pony up to pay it. </p>
<p>Therefore, I say the real culprit of higher education costs is the media and we parents (and students) who buy into them as truth and the only path to success.</p>
<p>Modadunn, “People don’t get this” because:</p>
<p>Schools, and media about college have told the public not worry about sticker price because “very few people pay the sticker price”. People have been told that are tons of scholarships out there, and a lot of money is left on the table, unclaimed.</p>
<p>Many of my peers worked their way their school. It was doable then. One could paint homes and mow lawns, work a night security job, or work in some warehouse and then pay tuition. My DH worked his way through grad school by working in a restaurant that also provided him with “free food” during the year, and he painted houses during the summer.</p>
<p>Speaking from my personal experience, my parents did not stretch a fraction of what we need to in order for them to have sent their 2 children to private school. My mother was not working and it was done on one income without financial aid. My parents were middle class (upper middle class by some standards). The dollar went farther then. Today people are happy to have a roof over their heads and be able to pay the mortgage or rent. College is secondary to food, and shelter because basic human needs must be met first.</p>
<p>Hudsonvalley51… in fairness, we have recovered the couch once in that time, and I will admit we invested in good classic furniture for that very reason so that reupholstering is always a better option. It’s amazing what great fabric and a reasonable upholsterer can do. And frankly, my favorite pieces of furniture are two wing chairs that were my grandmothers (that she had for a long time), my great grandmother’s desk and a breakfront that was my husband’s grandmothers. However, I would love a new coffee table. :)</p>
<p>But yes, I know a lot of people who redecorate their homes and buy new cars every few years… and then complain about the public school system or wonder how financial aid can gap them.</p>
<p>Northeastmom… </p>
<p>I would agree that this was our reality as well when we were younger. However, because my mom stayed home there were no daycare fees, summer camps out the yang or a million other income drainers on the table. I am AMAZED at what we give our children today that our parents wouldn’t have considered, including a car pool to every destination imaginable. And I am thrilled that the trend towards service trips and the rest are being seen as a sign of the wealthy rather than that of the the purely altruistic. Not that service isn’t admirable, but I think it speaks much louder to find those causes in your neighborhood. If you volunteer at the local Y, you are more likely to get involved in the service of your future college community. And while study abroad has merit, it shouldn’t be that you “need” this to be competitive in college admissions. Bank that money now, because it’s my opinion that if you’re stretching to give your kids a childhood, there is no way you’re going to be in a position to help them thru college.</p>
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<p>smith does not give $30,000 in aid per student from institutional sources. it gives $30,000 in aid per student receiving aid from institutional, state and federal sources.</p>
<p>really, though, the data here is pretty clear. in 2006-2007, smiths 990 non-profit statement shows after-aid expenditures of approximately $56,000 per student. tuition, room and board summed to approximately $46,000. so even before one considers direct prior giving to capital projects (a $20,000,000 direct gift to renovate the library is worth quite a bit per student, per year but does not show up in the above calculations), EVERY student on campus is being subsidized.</p>
<p>that said, smith is a very wealthy institution. a student paying sticker price to attend a school with a small endowment (say, less than $100,000 per student) is likely subsidizing others.</p>
<p>Furniture: I have to laugh. The furniture in my family room is a hand-me down from my mother; the living room is a combination of hand-me-downs from H’s grandmother and an old boss; dining room set was left by the people we bought the house from…you get the idea. Maybe that’s why I am not so worried about being able to pinch pennies to get D through school.</p>