Class of '25: 6.4% accept rate, 83% yield

Ah - thank you for clarifying. While I’ve seen a graph, I haven’t looked at the underlying numbers. But eye-balling the visual I have, it appears that from about 1973 through 1997 (the year Behnke arrived) applications increased from about 2,500 per year to about 5,000, or a little less than 3% per year. Behnke retired in 2009 after doubling applications again during his 12 years; the growth rate doubled as well, to about about 6% per year. So double the growth rate in half the time. Then Nondorf took over and tripled the number of apps in just a few years which is pretty astounding. The reason I mentioned 2013 before is that’s the year that the College caught up to the peer group in application numbers. It’s one thing to look at growth rates, but you have to consider the number of applications as well. Remember the quotes you provided above: Boyer (the head of the College) and Zimmer (the head of the university and a UChicago professor himself) didn’t think they should be getting fewer applications than peer schools. That was hardly a new idea on their part. The weird thing wasn’t that they increased applications all of a sudden, but that applications were so low to begin with.

UChicago has always had a subset of “self-selecting” students. Prior to the era of ED, these would be the types who acted like they were applying ED anyway. However, most of the “self-selection” that the school was known for historically, at least prior to the College expansion, is a myth that simply didn’t hold up when things like student satisfaction or retention were examined. One survey conducted in the '90’s found that about a third of students were seriously thinking about transferring (this on top of the 10% or so who had not returned from freshman year). Totally agree that things were significantly better in 2008! However, one benefit of increasing your applicant pool by 200% of interested, enthusiastic right-fit candidates is that you can select even better admits than you could just a few years prior. This is why, for instance, the matriculated pool in Fall 2008 had mid-range ACT scores of 28-33 but the matriculated pool in Fall 2018 (the year before TO) had scores ranging from 33-35. In other words, the bottom 25th had a score equivalent to the top 25th just a decade earlier.

Agree. UChicago shouldn’t trend any differently from other top schools. The question is whether it has increased more in those aspects than its peers due to a “come from behind” - similar to the application numbers. One person I know mentioned to me that, luckily, they were admitted the last year before the big explosion in applications started. Usually when people say “I wouldn’t be admitted today” they weren’t talking about their admission the prior year!

One way to check on UChicago’s relative progress over, say, the last 10-15 years would be to compare things like freshman retention and four/six year grad rates to the peers. It’s my impression that UChicago might lead in a couple of those, but haven’t looked lately.

Agree. As I mentioned above, the SAT “min” of 1020 seems completely unrealistic compared to just a few years ago when the min was higher (and varied a bit from year to year). It’s baffling, frankly. I just don’t believe that the purpose is to juice up numbers from “low scoring” individuals. Why bother, if you have TO? Perhaps it’s merely to take some of the focus off of test scores in the first place - something that UChicago has professed to do for years (well before Nondorf’s era) but wasn’t believable due to detailed score distributions on the “class profile” page. Over the years, test scores may be less correlated to performance at UChicago or other top schools. Part of the requirement at the former is that the student still needs to be able to do the work, and it’s harder to float through than perhaps at a few other places. Whether the college uses scores or other things to figure out probability of success is part of the mystery of Admissions Methodology.

I agree with the vast majority of what you wrote. Regarding why bother, if you have TO? Chicago started listing the minimum score of all admitted students in the 2007-13 period, during which there was a rapid increase in applications. I believe the only other major change to the class profile page since then was removing information about the percentage from public and private high schools (I won’t list my speculations about the reasons for that change.) All of this occurred long before going test optional. I believe Chicago reported exactly the same class profile stats immediately before going test optional as they currently do. It usually takes more effort to make a change than to maintain the existing website format.

They did provide some detail about that left side of the score distribution curve, as this profile from the 2003/4 application cycle shows. For the SAT, that’s about 11 kids who scored as low as 1000:

The distribution survived some aesthetic and other tweaks to the admissions and profile pages before Nondorf came on the scene; see Class of 2012, for instance:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080912235441/http://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/admissions/classprofile.shtml

Any reference to the left side of the distribution disappeared for the Class of 2013. While this was the last admission cycle (2008/9) prior to the change in admissions leadership, the reporting would have been under the direction of the new admissions head, James Nondorf, who was hired for the joint appointment of Admissions and Enrollment, replacing both Behnke and the titular head of admissions, Ted O’Neil:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100609232535/https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/admissions/classprofile.shtml

Can’t find the Class of 2014 profile via Wayback; maybe someone else will have more luck. But by the time that reporting was up for the Class of 2015, we see pretty much the same admissions website and profile page that we see today, including the 50% mid-range and those mins:

As mentioned above, the mins stopped changing for Class of 2020 and have remained at 1020 for SAT (despite the significant revision in the test itself for anyone applying Class of '21 onward) and 20 for the ACT. As noted earlier, both of these figures are significantly lower than what UChicago had been reporting for a few years prior to that.

What does all this tell us? Well, that when new people show up, the communication tools might get an overhaul. It wasn’t just the profile page; Nondorf also revised the entire admissions website. I believe he also updated the decision tools, including statistical modeling (a bit more about that below). Eventually, he subdivided the traditional EA and RD applicant pools to trick out the stronger preferences for UChicago among each.

I agree that the decision to go heavy on “prep schools” may be the reason for removing the public/private breakdown. They ceased to publish that data for Class of 2019 onwards. However, regardless of their motivation, I believe this makes sense because the delineation is less relevant than it used to be, given the larger spectrum of school alternatives for families currently (including homeschooling). UChicago is targeting some pretty highly selective publics, and many under-represented candidates might attend private Catholic schools on scholarship (same with the top preps; however, one doesn’t think “Catholic school” when they are discussing UChicago’s strategy to bring in more “prep school kids”) The public/private breakdown doesn’t really capture things like selective magnets, low-income denominational privates, etc.

They also removed class rank, but that’s hardly surprising because more and more high schools are declining to provide this number.

So it could simply be that a lot of the stats under the old head of admissions were simply outdated and not-so-relevant to the characteristics of the matriculating class. To be sure, the less information, the more students feel they are left in the dark. For instance, what are the admit rates for ED vs. EA vs. RD? What about ED1 vs. ED2? How many apply under each pool? Declining to publish that information has frustrated a lot of posters on CC! But it probably also prevents a huge wave of ED applications from kids who confuse admission stats for admission chances. Anyone attempting to game the system should probably apply elsewhere because they might not “get” the Uncommon Essay and would end up as a flat-out rejection which would essentially be a waste of time and effort, not to mention a squandering of one’s ED opportunity at a right-fit school.

Application growth was very healthy 2007-13 but it was healthy before that as well. That was the effect of outsider Michael Behnke, who convinced the College that they were relying too much on people finding UChicago, rather than the other way around. Behnke took over “enrollments” and increased their outreach to academically-qualified interested students who didn’t know much about UChicago. Nondorf, the marketing guy, took it to another level. If you wish to look at changes in application numbers, it’s most helpful to look at who was in charge of that and when: O’Neil (80’s to mid-90’s, not much growth); Behnke (mid-90’s to 2009, decent growth); Nondorf (2009+, tremendous growth up to the “peer threshold”; steady but not huge growth after that). I’d characterize these trend changes as follows: O’Neil was old-school; Behnke the shaker-upper; Nondorf the communications genius who “gets” both UChicago and its target student population.

This 1999 Newsweek article gives an interesting peak into the O’Neil admissions process. That wouldn’t happen today for a couple of reasons, one of which is that they have been using statistical modeling for a lot of their “admissioning”. No different from elsewhere, of course, but it’s a lot less “personal-sounding” than the old-school way. Of course, given the number of applications, the “old-school” way would be unworkable. You can’t increase applications by 200% and stick to physical folders sorted 1-5 with subcategories A-E. Admissions officers should also be spending more time with outreach and personal contact with their candidates and less time sorting folders. The article, however, does reveal a lot about what the College is looking for, and I believe that hasn’t really changed. Nondorf may have updated the process, but IMO he hasn’t altered the fundamentals. Inside The Admissions Game

The class of 2014 has the same format as the class of 2015 – list both minimum score of all admitted students and percent of students from public and private HS. The first capture on archive.org for class of 2014 is from March 2011 and last capture for class of 2013 is June 2010, so they probably first added the minimum score of all admitted students as some point between June 2010 and March 2011 – squarely in the Nondorf period, as you mentioned. A summary is below. I am listing calendar year, rather than class of.

2002 – Add admission stats to website, listing detailed score distribution by SAT/ACT score, among other information
…gap…
~2009 – Remove score distribution and only list 25th to 75th percentile
~2010 – Add minimum score of all admitted students
… gap…
2016 – Remove % from public/private school
… gap…

1 Like

This is helpful - thanks for digging a bit! Interesting that they don’t seem to include an ethnic breakout on this one, although they do publish % international.

Your timeline reflects some important time periods in the College. Following on the footsteps of Sonnenschein, Pres. Randel (2000-2006) was totally on board with expanding the size of the College beyond Sonnenschein’s original vision. IIRC College admission rates dipped below 50% for the first time in (recent) history around 1999 or 2000. 2009 marked the start of the Nondorf era. In 2016 they announced the switch to ED with an eventually-revealed plan to bump up the size of the College to 7,000 by adding around +250 a year or so to the enrolled class. These profile tweaks are probably smaller side effects of a larger strategy to improve selectivity and yield, while at the same time casting a wider net than historically in order to reach and recruit a more diverse student body. Interestingly, the College is now over 7,500; whether that’s due to the new mega-dorm that came online last year or other factors, not sure. But, as mentioned up at the top: they have the largest enrolled class this year and the highest yield in the history of the College. And the Class of '25 admit rate missed the record by only .2% (Class of '23 was at 6.2% by the end of summer melt).

1 Like