<p>My daughter is deciding between Barnard and a couple of other LACs, and class size is a criterion of interest to her. We are wondering how the size of introductory classes at Barnard may be affected by cross-registration with Columbia. She is interested in Computer Science, Political Science, and Journalism. We know from talking with the Columbia CS department that the intro courses are quite large, though there are much smaller recitation sections.</p>
<p>The other contending LACs will have small class sizes pretty uniformly. For Barnard students, how often are introductory classes in a variety of fields taken at Columbia, and are those courses typically large? Should she expect that the size of introductory CS is an exception?</p>
<p>I can’t answer those questions, but I can say that my D, who is now a funded PhD student (and is a Barnard alum) learned her most important insights into her discipline from one of her TA’s. She would not trade her Barnard education for any other, and did not feel some lecture classes with a recitation was a negative. Of course most of her classes were small. </p>
<p>Of course your daughter may feel differently; I’m just sharing her experience.</p>
<p>She was an American Studies major, but wandered into a course on Roman History with one of the world’s leading experts. She really loved his lectures because they were very exciting. The TA was completely devoted to the students and taught her how to be an historian. She now working as a TA in a history department and doing very well.</p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter in making her choice.</p>
<p>My daughter has had several large lectures with recitation for intro classes. From there though, they get small with a lot of personalized attention. Some of her TAs have been great. She prefers the smaller classes, but knows the big ones are just the intro classes.</p>
<p>It depends on classes & area of study. Some of my d’s introductory classes were small, some were large. Some courses were at Columbia & some at Barnard. Sometimes the Columbia classes were smaller than the Barnard classes.</p>
<p>For example, I can tell you that for Spring Semester, there are 43 students enrolled in the introductory Political Theory class (V1013) and two sections of the Intro to American Politics class (W1201), with 83 and 87 students respectively. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that when class size is restricted to a very small number, students can have a hard time getting a spot in a class. I think that the introductory political theory class that my daughter took was limited to 45 students, and she had to get a waiver from the prof to get into the class after it filled up. That wasn’t a huge problem - she just emailed him and he was happy to let her enroll – but do keep that there is the flip side of “small” classes is that at many schools, it’s sometimes hard for students to get the classes they want.</p>
<p>calmom, thanks for the great lead with the online class directory. Plenty to look at there!</p>
<p>And to the others, yes, I understand that TAs can be great. I was influenced by an excellent grad student 30 years ago. It’s just harder to build relationships with professors when the numbers are large.</p>
<p>All Barnard first year students take two seminar size classes their first year, so they are guaranteed at least some small classes. My daughter formed very close and lasting relationships with several faculty members, beginning with the very accomplished, tenured Department head who was assigned as her adviser. She had an issue over enrollment in a particular class that was somewhat distressing to her – which was resolved with the adviser’s help – the adviser gave my d. her home phone and encouraged her to call any time. One of my daughter’s first year seminars was co-taught by two very accomplished science researchers on Barnard’s faculty – although my daughter was not interested in studying sciences, these professors were truly inspirational, and my d. opted to fill her lab science requirement by taking a course from one of them. My d. (who graduated in 2010) still has regular contact with on of Barnard’s Deans, and she formed strong bonds with her thesis adviser and several other professors. </p>
<p>To be fair, my daughter also had ambivalent or conflicted dealings with some professors along the way – it’s not as if every single professor becomes a BFF. But from the start I was extremely impressed with how open and supportive the Barnard faculty is toward the students… I would give Barnard an A+ in the faculty/student relations category – I was also impressed because of the strong, positive relationship the students had with their administration. </p>
<p>I’m sure your daughter has some excellent and difficult choices to make, but I think you can safely tick off the “relationships” box. Yes, you are right that it is harder to build relationships in large classes, but even when classes are small, students will not necessarily get along with all of their professors. Barnard provides plenty of opportunities, even though there will be a mix of large and small classes. </p>
<p>I’m happy to discuss drawbacks of Barnard as well – no college is perfect – it’s just that I think that Barnard’s great strength is its faculty and the wide array of opportunities it is able to offer precisely because of the Columbia relationships.</p>
<p>Thanks, calmom, for sharing your daughter’s experiences. There are so many variables when comparing the schools, so it is nice to hear some recent stories.</p>
<p>And since you offered - in your experience, what is Barnard’s biggest drawback?</p>
<p>For my daughter, Barnard didn’t really have a “biggest drawback”. She is now in a PhD program (with recommendations from profs she got close to), and she feels her thesis put her much further along in the process than her peers.</p>
<p>If there was any difficulty, it was in the residential life lottery, not in the academic process.</p>
<p>I am sure neither calmom or I would want your daughter to attend Barnard if another of her acceptances represents a better fit. For my D Barnard ws her dream school; she graduated in 2009 and still feels that way.</p>
<p>I think calmom’s D felt a little differently, although I know she’s had a very successful trajectory.</p>
<p>First – my daughter is very happy she went to Barnard - she feels that it opened up all sorts of opportunities for her that she would not have had elsewhere, and we have talked about this repeatedly since she graduated. The only regret she has expressed on the academic front is that she didn’t take full advantage of opportunities – such as not having taken a course that now in hindsight she wishes she had studied. But I think we ALL have those regrets! (As they say, college is wasted on the young).</p>
<p>The potential drawbacks are social or environmental. </p>
<p>Socially, Barnard was not a particularly good fit for my daughter, but I think she would have had similar issues at any elite private college. I think that would be variable depending on the student. That Barnard is a women’s college was NOT a problem – my daughter is definitely a young woman who likes to socialize with men, but had no difficulty meeting men while in college. My daughter applied to Barnard in spite of, not because of, the all-female environment – but I think in hindsight she would also say that Barnard’s commitment and focus on women was beneficial and advantageous. </p>
<p>The NYC location for my daughter was wonderful – in part because it gave her so many opportunities to socialize off campus – but it could be a drawback for students who are looking for more of a traditional campus-focused experience. </p>
<p>The physical campus is very small. Columbia is larger, but it is still very small physically when compared to suburban campuses, and neither campus has much in the way of green space. So students will also be leaving campus if they like to take long walks or experience nature. (Riverside Park & Central Park are very nice, but my point is that they are off-campus.) My daughter is fine with that aspect, she likes concrete - her other college choices were NYU or Chicago – but I’m more into greenery and trees. </p>
<p>I also find the pace of life in NYC to be intense and overwhelming. So the city/suburb/rural issues might seriously impact quality of life at one campus or another.</p>
<p>I agree with mythmom on the res life lottery since my D is on the guaranteed waitlist for next year. It is a hassle to not know until July where she’ll be living and to not necessarily be living with the roommate she gets along with so well.</p>
<p>My daughter also had the waitlist issues on housing. two years in a row. Going into her sophomore year, it worked out fine – she ended up in a suite with young women who became good friends and was very happy. But going in junior year, not good – she was assigned to a room in a dorm that she hated, and that was a large factor in her decision to study abroad the following spring. Fortunately, while she was abroad, a good friend acted as her proxy for senior year housing, and she was very happy senior year.</p>
<p>I’d note that my daughter was holding out for a single each year, and it was absolutely essential that she be housed in a dorm with cooking facilities that did NOT require commitment to a meal plan, because we couldn’t afford Barnard meal plans. (My daughter is petite and doesn’t really eat all that much). So I think those were factors that stood in the way of her getting the room she wanted.</p>
<p>I do think that there were serious problems about the way Barnard managed the housing lottery, but I don’t know whether there have been changes since my daughter was there. </p>
<p>However, there are plenty of housing lottery issues at other schools as well… and that’s something that can be hard to get a handle on in advance of enrollment. Plus there’s always the luck of a high vs. low lottery number.</p>
<p>Just a note of reassurance to 2016BarnardMom – “guaranteed” means what it says. My daughter always had a place to stay, it just was that she didn’t know the assignment until August. But your daughter will have a spot. </p>
<p>The bigger frustration to me was financial aid and the fact that awards for continuing students are not issued until June, but payment for full semester is due in August. I am self employed & divorced, and my d’s father is also self-employed and was not very cooperative about submitting his financials … so every year there was a lot of tension waiting for the award, and things jumped around a lot from one year to the next. I don’t think it would have been as big of an issue for someone with a less complex, more consistent financial situation.</p>
<p>I’m a little concerned about the FA package not coming out until June also. Additionally, if I don’t know which dorm she is in, I also don’t know which meal plan she needs so I don’t know what the final cost will be. It makes it incredibly difficult to plan. She and her roommate did have an option to take a double within a suite but they didn’t know who the other people were so they didn’t do it. My response? Don’t you think you might end up in that same situation, but alone? She seems to think she’s more likely to get a single by waiting it out. We’ll see. I think she could end up in a suite of 6 without knowing any of the other young women. If she and her current roommate can get a double, they did say they’d like to room together.</p>
<p>I don’t think they’ve improved anything in that regard though. They had a huge housing issue this past year and some singles were converted to doubles at the last minute to accommodate women. It does appear they accepted fewer women this year (by sheer number) so perhaps the yield will better match how many women they can actually house? <em>fingers crossed</em></p>
<p>RE housing issues: My D (who also graduated in 2009) really had very good luck with housing. After her first year in Brooks (in the quad), she and her group of friends managed to live in Plimpton together the other three years. In fact, they were in the exact same suite in years 2-3, and in one that had been renovated their last year, which was really great. I think the key was that they assembled a group for the lottery that resulted in a good number…</p>
<p>My point is that sometimes things do work out well for housing. Not that you can count on that, for sure, but it’s not always terrible. </p>
<p>She also had great relationships with profs and seemed quite satisfied with class size all through school. Basically, I echo all that Calmom and Mythmom have said about that.</p>
<p>Best to the OP and her daughter in this decision.</p>
<p>I’d just point out that other colleges have issues with housing, and many (but not all) also write their financial aid awards for continuing students late in the year. Same is true of meal plan issues. Those are not Barnard-specific gripes, but issues to be aware of going in. I think that Barnard has a little bit less flexibility when it comes to housing as compared to universities located in suburban communities where housing is not so expensive – students do not have many affordable off-campus options nearby. But the flip side is that despite the fact that the bill from the bursar looks high, the actual rate that the students are paying is a bargain by NY standards. My daughter is still in NY & working in midtown Manhattan, but I don’t think she’ll be able to afford to live on the upper west side anytime again. </p>
<p>So those are issues to be aware of, but I don’t think they should really impact the choice whether or not to attend a particular college.</p>
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