Class Sizes

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>According to a current student I talked to the average class size is usually like 10-12. She said that sometimes there were really large intro classes but most classes don't have more than 20. Is this accurate? And for any current students, do you like the class sizes? Do you feel the disucssions are engaging with those size classes? I've had a couple bad experiences with small classes in HS, but I chalk that partially up to bad teachers and disinterested classmates. Basically, anything anyone can tell me about like the format of classes at swarthmore (any subject, math, lit, languages... just not sciences) would be really helpful. Also, how're the music programs at Swat?</p>

2

<p>The official "average" class size last fall was 15.1 students. Here's the percentage of classes in each size category from last fall (Oct 2008)</p>

<p>2- 9 students 34.0%
10-19 students 41.2%
20-29 students 16.8%
30-39 students 4.8%
40-49 students 1.3%
50-99 students 1.6%</p>

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</p>

<p>You won't encounter too many of either one of those at Swarthmore. I can tell you that my daughter tried to include one large course each semester freshman and sophmore years, just because those were so much less demanding than the small seminar/discussion courses. However, by junior and senior year she was spoiled and really disliked "large" courses above 20 students unless the professor was exceptional. From her descriptions of four years of courses at Swarthmore, I was blown away by how interactive the educational style is at the college. Not just interactive between students and professors, but interactive between students and students, and even professors and professors. It is a very unusual place in that way. It's a culture that was set in motion in the 1920's with Honors Seminars that were based around small group discussions of student research papers once a week.</p>

3

<p>Intro Psych usually only gets about 60 kids or so (but you have attachments with about fifteen people for a few weeks that are discussion-based)- I think the 100+ course is Bio. Still an intro course, though!</p>

4

<p>rolledeyes611: Yes, whoever told you that was right. I think median or mode would be a better statistic than average in this case. For example, if you took Intro Bio and 3 small classes with 20 people each, the average would still be like 40-something. Most of my classes had around 10-15 people. I'll just list them:
Fall
- Intro Bio : around 120 people or so
- Math: 11
- Chinese: 10
- History: 35 (very large, more than normal; my professor was very popular)</p>

<p>Spring
- Math: around 15
- English: 11
- History: around 10
- Chinese: 8 or 9</p>

<p>So, as long as you don't take a bunch of intro classes, your classes will generally be small. I do like the class sizes. Intro to Bio just didn't work for me. For some reason I have a hard time focusing on Power Point lectures, and I feel much more encouraged to ask questions when the class is small. It feels more like the professor is actually talking to you and not to a large crowd when you're in a smaller class. </p>

<p>I'd like to warn you, in case you didn't know: Small classes doesn't mean that the classes are discussion-based. My history and math classes are pretty much all lecture. Discussions just don't happen in the larger classes. The history class I took last semester had around 35 people and there was not much "discussion," but sometimes my professor asked us questions and we'd answer. We never got into a real debate over anything. Whether the discussions are engaging depends more on the teacher and your classmates than on the class size (because discussion just isn't reasonable in a class that big). In my history class, we rarely have discussion, and even when we do, they tend to revolve around discussing our opinions of the text, and they don't tend to be that engaging. I think it has to do with the fact that we're not expert historians, and it's hard to talk about history, really knowing what you're talking about, unless you really, really know the history in depth. But in my English seminar, we have discussions almost every class, led by an excellent professor, and often our discussions are very engaging. Every so often students will be just bursting with things to say. </p>

<p>I think most of the students here are interested in the subject, because otherwise they wouldn't be taking the course, unless they just need to fulfill distribution requirements. That doesn't mean the discussions will be great; it depends more on how well the teachers led discussion and how much the students feel comfortable saying with a sense of authority.</p>

<p>So, the big classes are Intro Bio, Intro Psych, and Intro Econ. Each of these classes has 100+ students (I'm not sure about psych, actually. Econ is capped at 100). For Bio, there are labs and study group meetings, but it just isn't a substitute for personal attention in lectures. That's one reason why I don't recommend a class like Intro Bio unless you're planning to major in it. You can find plenty of small classes where you'll get personal attention, which is an important reason why people are attracted to schools like Swarthmore in the first place.</p>

5

<p>Yeah, from the Tri-Co Course guide, it looks like Bio 001/002 are the biggies.</p>

<p>Intro Econ is actually broken into sections with 10 to 20 in each section. The biggie Econ courses are Intro Micro and Intro Macro.</p>

6

<p>I've found that there's a wide range in class sizes.
There are large lectures: 100+ is typical for Intro Bio, and for Intro Psych when Ward teaches it (Schwartz and Schneider draw smaller crowds). And some popular English classes can have 40-50 people in them.
Then there are what I would call "typical" classes: 15-30 students. I would say that these are the majority of lower-level and mid-level courses in popular disciplines, and there can be quite a bit of lecture, but also some really good discussion, depending on the professor and the class dynamic.
Then there are really small classes, with 12 or fewer students: not just seminars, but most upper-level courses (and mid-level courses in smaller disciplines). These ones are where you often get the most intellectual engagement and stereotypical close relationships with a professor. But in reality, you probably don't want all your classes to be this small, because small classes are often inherently more work than larger ones--you are more accountable for the material, and need to be better prepared. Taking four of them at once would be extremely challenging, especially for an underclassman. </p>

<p>To some extent, the class sizes you have will be determined by your interests--your major and the classes you want to take. You have control, though, and if you really wanted a lot of small classes you could arrange your schedule that way. But small class size is really not the only factor in how enjoyable or fulfilling a class is, and often the best professors will have larger classes, simply because everyone knows how great they are. </p>

<p>The music program is good, though it caters to some specific interests better than others. What are you interested in specifically?</p>

7

<p>Thanks everyone that helps. etselec, I play clarinet and I want to continue playing that. I know they have a wind ensemble, but I was wondering what other kinds of ensembles they have. Also, if you have any insight into the music theory classes and whether they're good or not.</p>

8

<p>They have a wind ensemble, orchestra, chorus, Gamelan, Jazz band...and perhaps a few others that I'm not thinking of right now. These are all for a half-credit. There are also small-group chamber ensembles formed every semester, where the school gives you credit and pays for a coach. And you can audition to have your private lessons paid for as well--depending on your skill level they will give you 1/3, 2/3 or a full subsidy. And there are non-department ensembles, as well--Balkan Band and Mariachi Band, for instance. </p>

<p>I've taken the first class in the theory sequence, and have friends who are finishing up fourth-semester theory right now, and I would say it's a good program, though it has its flaws. It's intensive--a credit of theory and a half-credit of musicianship skills--but it will give you a good foundation in counterpoint and common practice harmony. If you're particularly attached to solfege, the musicianship class will be somewhat frustrating, as it uses scale-degree numbers (this mostly bothers singers). </p>

<p>Let me know if you have any more questions. Good luck!</p>