Classics Graduate Degree and No Languages

Applying to College
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<p>Hi all!</p>

<p>Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but I am new to the forums so I don't really know my way around yet. </p>

<p>To start with, I am in my fourth year of my undergraduate degree and I plan on graduating with a BA in European Studies/History in May of 2012. However, I am only going for the European Studies degree because that was the closest thing we had to a Classics undergrad at my school. (University of West Florida in Pensacola). This institution, however, has left me extremely limited in terms of Latin and Greek, for it offers neither for any student to study, so I am left with trying to teach myself. I have had a semester of Latin at a community college before I transferred, but I know that will not be nearly enough.</p>

<p>This leads me to my question: What do you all recommend I do? I want to become a Classics professor someday (I am aiming to get a Ph.D) but I know that I am severely behind on the language requirements. I know that if I applied to a Ph.D program right now that I would not get accept. I know there are Post-Bac programs, but I am unsure if those programs are for those without any prior knowledge, or if they are made to simply expand and intensify the education of those already experienced in Latin and Greek.</p>

<p>I also have heard of "terminal MA's" that might be able to get me in the right track. (I've never actually heard of a terminal MA, so I don't really know what it means.) Needless to say, I have done plenty of research and taken several courses relating to the history, art, and culture of the Greeks and Romans and I have put a great deal of effort into studying the subject in my spare time, though I am probably no where near the knowledge of a Classics BA. However, my biggest pitfall is the language requirement.</p>

<p>Right now, I am looking to going to school somewhere in Europe, like St. Andrews, Exeter, UCL, or one of those other universities for a Ph.D. Before that, I was looking to getting an MLitt at UCD possibly (cost wise, UCD wasn't too bad). Will I be able to pick up on Latin and Greek while going for a degree at any of these universities, or will I have to already be extremely proficient in the language first? How about if I pursue an MA or MLitt first before a Ph.D?</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post. I am just really confused about everything and really worried that I might not be able to go for a degree in the field that I love simply because of the lack of opportunities in the area I am at currently.</p>

<p>Thanks for any advice,
Chris</p>

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<p>I’d also be willing to go to school in the US as well, like at FSU or, probably my top pick, Michigan. But I know that they want experience in the languages so I am still stuck on this point. </p>

<p>And I guess this can lead to another question:</p>

<p>Is it better for me to get a Classics Ph.D at one of the top-tier schools in the US, or will a UK school be just as “prestigious” and allow for a better chance at getting tenure?</p>

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<p>How much of either language do you know? I don’t know a lot about Greek, but I’ll tell you now, after about a few years of Latin, the more advanced work is extremely tough. But many of the people going for these programs likely have it mastered. You should definitely try to take summer classes or night classes or online classes-- anything really, at this point-- to be anywhere near competitive for a PhD program for Classics. It’s doable, but it will take a lot of time, effort, and patience on your part. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Not my field, but some universities offer intensive courses in Latin and/or Greek that allow a motivated student to pick up introductory and intermediate levels of the language in an intensive semester or summer of study. Some are designed specifically for graduate students at the school offering the course, but I believe some may be open to visiting students (for a fee, of course). It may be that in a year or so (a summer plus a fall and spring semester) you could get sufficiently up to speed to qualify for admission to grad school. You’d still have some catching up to do, but at least you wouldn’t be starting from scratch. Before you sign up for any of these courses, however, I’d suggest you talk with the directors of graduate studies at some of the classics departments you might be thinking of applying to, and see what they suggest. Also have a candid talk with them about employment prospects for newly minted classics Ph.D.s . Again, it’s not my field, but I expect they’ll tell you that tenure-track jobs are few and far between these days. I don’t mean to dissuade you from pursuing your academic ambitions, but you should go into it forearmed with knowledge about what the market prospects are coming out the other end.</p>

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<p>A caveat: I’m not a philologist, though I’m in a closely related field. </p>

<p>You need to find a way to get to an advanced intermediate stage (6+ semesters) of at least one language to get into <em>any</em> program, even a terminal MA. To get into a PhD, you need to have c. 4 years of one of the languages and 3 of the other, and most people have more than this (people who came into college already at an intermediate level of Latin, or who did summer intensives, or a post bac.) At tippy-top programs, I’d say that pretty much everyone has more language training than this bare minimum. You should, however, browse around the websites of some MA and PhD programs, and see what they say their requirements are. </p>

<p>The truth about Classics programs is that the languages reign supreme, and you simply don’t have a shot without having the languages firmly in hand. Additionally, until you have reached the upper levels of language study, I think it is probably impossible to know if you really want to be a Classics professor. </p>

<p>Post bacs are a good idea, but they generally only take students who already have two years of each of the languages, as they focus on reading skill, rather than teaching the language. They also tend to be a fairly expensive way of getting language training. </p>

<p>UK universities, from what I understand, expect that their students have advanced language skills, and because UK grad degrees (including most MA and MLitt degrees) aren’t structured around coursework, this would not be a good place to go to learn the languages. </p>

<p>So, you need to figure out what your local options are for learning the languages. Self-learning, while a nice idea, is not a plausible way of getting to a graduate-level reading competence of either language, and especially not of Greek. </p>

<p>Two options are summer intensive programs (Berkeley and CUNY both have famous ones, but I’m sure they’re others), and state flagship universities/ large state schools (where you can likely take undergrad classes as a second-degree or non-matriculating student for relatively little money, if you are a state resident). It seems that any of these plans is going to involve 2+ more years in coursework before you can even apply for MA programs. For instance, a summer intensive this summer, followed by four regular semesters of Latin and at least two of Greek, which would put you in a good position to apply to MAs. </p>

<p>Additionally, this can all get expensive. That is a problem, because getting into serious debt for a humanities PhD is not a great idea. So, while it is likely that you’re going to have to shell out some money to get your languages up to the level of MA admissions, you should aim from then on on getting into funded programs. </p>

<p>I say this not to discourage you, though. I know from personal experience that it is possible to ‘catch up,’ but I also know that it takes a great deal of time and commitment. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the replies!</p>

<p>It seems I have been put into quite a dilemma. Perhaps it isn’t the Classics degree I am going for, but something with a focus on Greek and Roman history. Are there any Ancient History PH.ds? Or Roman History? Something that will allow me to learn and develop the language, or am I stuck having to start all over simply because of the area I live in and the necessary funding?</p>

<p>I am willing to do the 2 years of language study, and I will be given 2 years of my dads GI Bill once I start Grad School/Post-Bac/Whatever I am doing, which should help with any expenses for that.</p>

<p>But, in the end, I would prefer to somehow start on a track somewhere and try to intensively learn the language as I progress. I’ve noticed the University of Edinburgh offered their grad students Beginning Latin and Greek, which was explicitly stated to be for those with no background in the language, and this was offered to grad students interested in the field as well.</p>

<p>Someone also suggested a Theology MA, which might not require me to know the languages going in, but will help me develop a strong background in Latin, Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew on my way out. </p>

<p>Anyways, I am open to suggestions. Perhaps it isn’t “Classics” that I want to get a degree in, but I definitely want something with a focus on the Greco-Roman world.</p>

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<p>So, you are in a sort of sticky position. There are Ancient History PhDs, but they generally require only a bit less language preparation than straight Classics PhDs (look, for example, at the Ancient History programs at Michigan, Berkeley and Penn). The problem is that these programs expect you to be able to come in and start working with primary sources right away, which is impossible if you are still learning the languages. </p>

<p>Furthermore, many programs have language exams that are required at various points in the program, and so making up a multi-year deficiency in both ancient language is really difficult. </p>

<p>I don’t know anything about the University of Edinburgh program-- but that certainly sounds promising. On the other hand, I would be suspect of <em>any</em> classics MA that doesn’t require its students to at least have some familiarity with the languages before starting. Ancient languages take a long time to master, even with dedicated study-- and so to expect to gain a real competence in both in a short MA program seems (to me, at least) impossible. </p>

<p>Theology MAs might be an interesting angle, however I really don’t know anything about that path either, so I’m not positive. I would, however, make sure that you’re going to have the time to really focus on your languages in that environment, as it seems that Theology-related coursework would occupy much of your time in such a setting. That said, this might be a great option, if you can really ensure that you can take, for example, one Greek and one Latin course every semester during you MA. </p>

<p>I think that you might want to spend some time clarifying where, exactly, your interests lie, however, before making any of these choices. I know that this sounds crazy, because it is really hard to figure out what the different branches of the study of the ancient world really entail. But I would suggest going on a JSTOR search, and finding some scholarship that ‘speaks’ to you-- that asks questions you’re interested in asking. Then, you can figure out what additional preparation you need to get into programs that will let you ask those types of questions, rather than letting your eventual scholarship be decided by what programs you’re able to get into right now.</p>

<p>Because, if you end up going into this field, you’re going to want to be happy with how you’re spending your professional energy.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone! I will take everything into consideration and try to figure out what the best path for me will be.</p>

<p>Thanks again</p>

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