Clinical years of med school question

<p>So I know what to expect for the first 2 years of med school (lecture, labs, etc.) but I'm interested in finding out more about the 3rd and 4th year of med school. Are you still given exams? How are you graded? Because you don't have your MD, what exactly are you allowed to do on rotations? Are you more of an observer? As for studying, do you just read up on whatever you think is relevant or is there assigned reading? Do you still go to any lectures?</p>

<p>sorry for all the questions! Thanks in advance for your help.</p>

<p>bump! I'm sure somebody knows...</p>

<p>Depends on your school, depends on what clerkship you're on, (ie Surgery) depends on the service (ie Blue Team vs Green team), depends on your resident, depends on the time of year you're going through (they'll expect more of you in April than they do in July). </p>

<p>For example, at my school, we have 6 clerkships in the third year:
Internal Med - 12 Weeks - 6 weeks on in-patient, 3 weeks on outpatient, and 3 weeks on a medicine sub-specialty selective.
OB/GYN - 6 weeks - 2 weeks Labor and Delivery, 2 weeks GYN Surg, 2 weeks outpatient
Psych - 6 weeks - 2 weeks out patient, 1 week substance abuse clinic, 3 weeks either on Adult Crisis Unit (patients admitted to the hospital for their psych problems) or Inpatient Consult Service (people admitted to the hospital for some medical reason who also have or develop psych problems)
Peds - 8 weeks - 2 wks inpatient, 2 wks outpatient, 1 wk Newborn Nursery, 1 wk Genetic disorders clinic, 1 wk private clinic, 1 wk selective
Surgery - 8 weeks - 4 weeks general surgery, two 2 wk selectives
Family Medicine - 8 weeks - required to be in a small town. School sets up all preceptorships based on student preference sheets (you get to rank top 3 locations, they try to match you up as best they can).</p>

<p>This is very different than how my girlfriend's med school runs their clerkships, everything is 8 weeks, they don't go to rural locations in the state and they seem to have a lot less variety/selection to their rotations...</p>

<p>The one constant is that just when you start getting comfortable somewhere with something, it's time to change. That's what happens when you only have 6 or 8 weeks for any one clerkship...</p>

<p>For tests:
The NBME administers the so-called "shelf exams" in a number of different areas - surgery, family med, psych, IM, peds, etc.
How different schools and different services use these exams varies greatly. Even within my own institution grades on these exams vary as to how much of the grade they make up.</p>

<p>Lectures - Yes, there are still are lectures, but again dependent on school and clerkship. Thus far, at least at my school on my surgery clerkship these have been aimed at getting key basic info across that is relevant to the shelf.</p>

<p>Reading - the best generalization is that you read up on the conditions your patients have. Knowing the differential diagnosis, general pathophysiology, and possible treatment options is a good start. From there different things will be important depending on the clerkship- in surgery, it's more important to know relevant anatomy, while on medicine knowing the drugs to use is more important.</p>

<p>As for what you do while on a service - again variable, even within the same clerkship.</p>

<p>For example, I'm on surgery at the moment. I spent all of July on a general surg service at a community hospital (rather than my University Medical Center). This specific group/hospital is usually the place where people not interested in pursuing a surgery residency are placed. You see more surgery stuff but are less involved in patient management and care sort of things. Typically I got to the hospital in the morning between 5:45 to 6:30 depending on the day, rounded on my patients - basically checking to make sure their post-op course was going as it should - wrote my SOAP notes in their chart, told my resident that they were doing okay, she'd check the patient herself, usually agree with what I found, I'd then follow her to finish rounding on all our patients, she'd change orders as necessary and then we'd go to our first case of the day in the OR.</p>

<p>The main things she wanted me to accomplish/recognize were when things needed changing, though not necessarily what the exact changes were. My notes were filled with a lot of "anticipate <strong><em>" and "suggest _</em></strong><strong>" and "consider possible _</strong><strong><em>" and "await _</em></strong>_".</p>

<p>But I had one resident, who was a 4th year resident, and 4 attendings. This is different than at the University services that some of my friends are on. They have a junior resident (1st or 2nd year) they report to, then maybe a senior resident (3rd or 4th), then a Chief resident (5th year house officers) then an attending to report to depending on how the service is set up and the way residents are assigned. There might even be a 4th year medical student doing a sub-internship on their service too representing another step in the chain of command. For them, they were more focused on patient management and were less likely to assist in a surgery. They certainly spent more time in clinic than I did.</p>

<p>Third year med students are generally required to do the full History and Physical for new patients...how often is again service dependent, and while on inpatient services a much bigger part of the process. I'll be doing far more while on inpatient medicine than I did on general surg.</p>

<p>Of course, now I'm on pediatric orthopedics as a two week selective, and I do nothing (mainly because medical schools are deficient in teaching anything ortho related during the first two years and I have no idea what's really going on - that of course means I'm learning a lot by watching and reading). The surgeries are awesome, but definitely different and are impossible for me to really read up on beforehand. I'm very wide-eyed. Next week I move on to ENT surg, which will be different as well.</p>

<p>After reading that, I want to bypass the first two years of med school :(.</p>

<p>So do we .</p>

<p>Yes, I've recently taken to saying "now that I get to 'play' doctor every day, it's made me hate the first two years of medical school even more..."</p>

<p>You'll be grateful for those basic science years and your two years of supervised clerkships when you're an intern.</p>

<p>thanks Bigredmed! That was VERY helpful- just the kind of explanation I wanted.</p>

<p>Also to note, third year is very different than 4th year...</p>

<p>For 4th year, rotations are a month long most places, you get to pick what you do, and thus how hard you'll have to work...</p>

<p>Generally, early in the fourth year (July - September) you're doing rotations in services you are likely to enter residency in - and working your butt off to earn LOR's (especially if you decided late in third year that's what you wanted to do and thus didn't necessarily work as hard during your third year correlate). You also have the option of doing 1-4 (depending on school) months at off campus rotations at other Universities - places you might be interested in applying to in the future for residency. Again you'll be working very hard to make a good impression as a sparkling performance there gives you a feather in your cap when it comes time for Match.</p>

<p>After that, 4th year gets easier...you study for step 2, go on interviews, and go to the bars. Most M4's I've talked to at my school and others always get Honors grades, you don't have that much responsibility, and you're monitored less than the M3's because if you're not there, the residents assume you have a meeting or an interview or something else important. Of course like all things, you can always choose to make 4th year difficult, but it's kind of a dumb thing to do...</p>