CMU, UPenn, UC Berkeley Advice!

Applying to College
1

<p>I just finished up a chance thread displaying the same information below, but I would like to get some advice on how I can improve my chances at different schools. (I apologize if this isn't the right section of CC to post this, I wasn't sure.)</p>

<p>I am rising junior in a good high school from Minnesota. I'd like to study anything business related, especially finance or accounting. On the other hand, I would be interested in studying mathematics or economics.</p>

<p>-UPenn, Wharton (top choice)
-Carnegie Mellon, Tepper
-UC Berkeley, Haas
-UChicago, The College for Econ
-Cornell, School of Hotel Admin.
-Georgetown, McDonough
-WUSTL, Olin</p>

<p>UW GPA: 3.96
W GPA: 4.11
W Class Rank: 10/296 (~top 3%)</p>

<p>ACT: composite: 30 (31 E, 32 M, 30 R, 25 S, 8/12 essay)
I took this once without any prep whatsoever at the end of my sophomore year. I know I will take this at least twice more. I've been practicing a little bit the reading and science sections and I've been averaging a 33 R and 31 S! </p>

<p>Will try taking SAT and SAT IIs.</p>

<p>Course Load: I've been enrolled in the most rigorous classes available. The only AP offered to underclassmen was AP US History (4).</p>

<p>-Junior Year
AP Language
AP Literature
AP US Government
AP Statistics
Pre-Calculus (required and advanced)
French III
Intro to Business/Sales and Marketing</p>

<p>-Prospective Senior Year
AP Human Geography
AP Art History
AP Chemistry
AP Calculus BC
French IV
Accounting
(unknown other class)</p>

<p>EC's: (I will try to just list the major ones)</p>

<p>-Peer Tutoring (av. 2 students/wk)
-Project 4 Teens Leader (one of 3 males selected to talk about abstinance from sex and drugs to students in 6-8th grade)
-Link Crew Commissioner (one of 4 in grade who lead over 60 students who organize freshman orientation)
-Scarlet Ambassadors Director of Community Affairs (turned an organization primarily about being the face of the school while meeting with prospective students and parents to a group who is active in the community)
-Mission Trips to needy areas (Benton Harbor, MI and Pine Ridge, SD)
-Junior Varsity Alpine Ski Team
-Varsity Tennis
-USTA Summer Team Tennis 6th in State
-USTA Winter Team Tennis 1st in State
-Varsity Speech
-DECA Vice President and State Participant
-Key Club President
-Student Council Vice President
-Youth Conference on State Issues Presiding Officer (a Youth in Government activity)
-French Honor Society Founder and President
-Organized a community service trip of about 40+ students to -Chicago through STLF.net (Check it out! Great organization.)
-Red Cross Disaster Relief Member
-Business Camp CFO
-Job at semi-trailer sales business
-Job at a local Culver's</p>

<p>Race: Caucasian
Gender: Male</p>

<p>I really appreciate everyone for reading this! Please let me know if there are any schools besides these that might be a good (or better) match for me! I would definitely be interested in applying ED or EA.</p>

<p>Let me know what I can improve on! What would else should I do!</p>

2

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<p>Why isn’t University of Minnesota Twin Cities on your list? It is widely regarded as one of the top schools for math and economics, and you are in state for cheaper tuition and better financial aid than out of state students.</p>

<p>Note that the finance subarea of business can be heavily mathematical, so majoring in math and economics with some additional finance courses (which may be found in both economics and business departments) may be a good program of study for you. Graduate business programs in “financial engineering” require a strong math background, unlike MBA programs.</p>

<p>Regarding Berkeley, the undergraduate business major (Haas) is not very mathematical (most general business majors for undergraduates are not). Also, you cannot get admitted to it as a freshman; you have to apply to the major in your second year. On the other hand, the economics major offers a math-intensive intermediate economics option, and additional mathematical economics courses. There is also an operations research and management science major that combines math, economics, and business. However, both this major and economics are oversubscribed, and students need to apply to declare the majors (math is not oversubscribed, though).</p>

3

<p>I have definitely considered it. Still, reciprocity allows me to attend UWisconsin Madison at a dramatically lower cost. I believe this would fit me better than UMinn. Plus, from what I have heard, UWisconsin is ranked higher, usually. </p>

<p>I really like your idea of double majoring in math and economics. Would you think that I would be more successful in the long run if I did this instead of finance? What about accounting? I have heard that this is the best business major to do. </p>

<p>I’ve always just loved math, but I’m not really sure what type of job I would/could have with that degree.</p>

4

<p>I’d love some help! I’m clueless.</p>

5

<p>OP, you have a strong chance of getting into Berkeley. You will have to apply to the College of L&S where you will spend the first 2 years of the program. Before the turn of your Junior year, you will have to apply again to Haas where you have a great chance of getting admitted provided you have complied all the requirements. Haas is a great business school. A solid top 5 in the nation. It sends graduates to top Bulge Bracket firms regularly. And, if you’re a Caucasian at Haas, you will always get the attention of your peers as the student body of the college is Asian dominated.</p>

6

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<p>Well, Wisconsin was not on your original list either. Apply to both so that you have them as choices later if you get into both.</p>

<p>You probably want to ask in the careers or business forums about quantitative finance and actuarial (risk assessment) jobs that math/economics majors may go into to see if they would be to your liking (general business majors typically do not have the math background for those jobs, though they will have more other business courses like marketing, organizational behavior, etc.). As far as concentrating on accounting goes, do it if you want to be an accountant.</p>

7

<p>RML, thanks for responding! What about the other schools? What can I do to improve my application?</p>

8

<p>OP, all your other choices are extremely selective schools to get into. Your GPA is superb – it will get you anywhere even at HYPSM. However, your test score of 30 on ACT will kill your chances at those schools. </p>

<p>The only reason why you are a good candidate at Berkeley is because, unlike the other top privates, Berkeley weighs GPA more than they do test scores. </p>

<p>I really would encourage you to set your eyes to Berkeley. Its business school is fantastic and you’d add to the school’s diversity.</p>

9

<p>I will definitely consider it! Plus, Berkeley is well known for great academics in all areas, not just business. I know this has asked a million times, but do they or do they not favor OOS applicants? I’ve heard so many contradicting viewpoints on this. </p>

<p>Also, I am quite sure that I will improve my ACT scores. For one, I barely studied for it, and it was at the end of my sophomore year. As long as I raise my ACT by 3 points (approximately), am I a pretty strong candidate?</p>

10

<p>@ucbalumnus Sorry, I didn’t see your post until just now! I will definitely apply to schools, like UMinn and especially UWisc as safeties, but I was just curious about some reaches.</p>

11

<p>OP, my assumption is you’d need a little higher stats to get into Berkeley as an OOS applicant than as an in-state applicant. But stats alone would not tell a perfect picture of how strong a candidate you are. Berkeley, contrary to the assumption of most people on this message board, actually practices a holistic admission approach. The adcom people at Cal would like to see a leadership role you’ve held and a good story of how you have succeeded through difficult times. If you can demonstrate your leadership into writing, you will be an extremely strong candidate for Cal. </p>

<p>With your GPA and an increase of 1 or 2 points on your ACT plus a great essay… Berkeley is well within your reach. </p>

<p>Again, I strongly encourage you to apply because you will add to Haas’ diversity. Caucasians at Haas are outnumbered. You’d be a great addition to the student body there.</p>

<p>In addition to Cal, I think you’d also be a good candidate for CMC and USC-Marshall. They’re not as prestigious as Berkeley or Haas, but definitely just as good academically.</p>

12

<p>RML, you really are pushing Haas! The more I think about it, the more it seems to fit. However, Haas just offers B.A., right? I was definitely thinking accounting or finance.</p>

13

<p>^ hahaha, it’s because I think you’d be a perfect fit for Haas. </p>

<p>You can concentrate in any of those areas at Haas, actually, including marketing. Haas never runs out of accounting and higher finance courses and most top employers are very much aware about that – [Course</a> Information, Undergraduate Program - Haas School of Business, University of California Berkeley](<a href=“Courses - Undergraduate Program - Berkeley Haas”>Courses - Undergraduate Program - Berkeley Haas)</p>

<p>There are also plenty of student orgs for undergrad at Haas. Members guide you the career path you plan to take.</p>

14

<p>Great! I guess I didn’t look into that enough. So B.A. from Berkeley wouldn’t hurt me in getting a job in finance/accounting?</p>

<p>Still, I’m a little bit worried about going to such a large school-- that’s why I’ve been so interested in CMU. There’s only like 200 some Tepper freshmen.</p>

15

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NO, it won’t. In fact, from what I’ve gathered, most Haas grads ended up as finance analyst or consultants at top BBs. A substantial number of them are now accountants at the Big 4 accounting firms. A number of Haas grads are involved in start-ups and are now managing their own companies. Haas does not only imbibe a culture of joining in corporate set-up, it also imbibes a culture of entrepreneurship. Silicon Valley is also full of Haas interns and grads/alumni.</p>

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<p>Berkeley is large. But it is because it has many course offerings. But as you go on with your majors, you become substantially less. </p>

<p>Haas in particular isn’t large. It only has an undergrad student body of 700 as opposed to more than a thousand at CMU-Tepper. Haas is quite famous for offering a very close-knit student-student and student-faculty environment. Everyone at Haas knows everybody. There is a regular leadership program conducted at the school, making you feel a huge and important part of the school.</p>

16

<p>Haas is great, but as an OOS student, you’d be expected to pay full-freight…about $50k per year. Will your parents pay that much?</p>

<p>Cal won’t give an OOS student the aid it needs. The UCs accept OOS students because those students bring MORE MONEY to the school.</p>

17

<p>Cal has scholarships for OOS too, though they are quite competitive, and often, limited. </p>

<p>[UC</a> Berkeley Financial Aid and Scholarships Office: Undergraduates Outside Scholarship Resources](<a href=“http://students.berkeley.edu/finaid/undergraduates/outside_scholarship.htm]UC”>http://students.berkeley.edu/finaid/undergraduates/outside_scholarship.htm)
<a href=“http://scholarships.berkeley.edu/res_freshmen.php[/url]”>http://scholarships.berkeley.edu/res_freshmen.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

18

<p>Once again, if you really like math, explore whether a general business major (like at Berkeley Haas) is mathematical enough for your liking, or if you would be more interested in math + economics / finance, industrial engineering / operations research, or (at least at Berkeley) [operations</a> research and management science (ORMS)](<a href=“http://ieor.berkeley.edu/AcademicPrograms/Ugrad/index.htm]operations”>http://ieor.berkeley.edu/AcademicPrograms/Ugrad/index.htm).</p>

19

<p>@mom2collegekids That number isn’t very inviting. This is something I would definitely have to discuss with them. For whatever reason, my parents practically refuse talking about college with me now. They think I am to young to start thinking about this?</p>

<p>@RML I understand. Still, I have found countless reviews of having classes with over 100 students and of how the student to faculty ratio is quite misleading. Again, something to look more into. </p>

<p>@ucbalumnus I’ve honestly never head of operations research and management science (ORMS). I have taken a few engineering classes at school (I was planning on becoming a mechanical engineer), but I absolutely hated it. Perhaps this was the teacher or the PLTW curriculum, but I ended up dropping the class and moving to a finance course. What sort of jobs might come from a degree in ORMS?</p>

20

<p>For whatever reason, ORMS is not listed in the Berkeley career survey:</p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>But you can probably get some idea by looking at the following majors’ career survey results, since ORMS can take courses and topics from all of them:</p>

<p>Industrial Engineering and Operations Research
Applied Mathematics
Mathematics
Statistics
Economics
Business Administration</p>

<p>As far as class sizes at Berkeley go, you can look at [Home</a> Page - Online Schedule Of Classes](<a href=“http://schedule.berkeley.edu%5DHome”>http://schedule.berkeley.edu) to find class sizes (you can look at [UC</a> Berkeley - General Catalog](<a href=“http://www.berkeley.edu/catalog/]UC”>2023-24 Berkeley Academic Guide < University of California, Berkeley) to see course descriptions).</p>