CMU vs. W&M vs. BC: At least I'm not the only one still deciding

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So here I am, May 1st, the dreaded deposit deadline. I got into 5 schools:</p>

<p>University of Massachusetts - Amherst (In-state) (Cost minus loans: $10K)
University of Rochester ($51K)
Boston College ($57K)
Carnegie Mellon ($30K)
William & Mary (Out-of-state obviously) ($21K)</p>

<p>And I have narrowed it down to three; the three in the thread title. I love Rochester but I never felt like it stood out over the other three; it was always just a really good fallback. And I mean really good. But alas, they didn't give me too much cash and I have other options.</p>

<p>Anyway, here is where I stand. You may have noticed that BC is in the thread title even though they gave me $0 in grants and a measly $7000 in federal loans and work-study. I have gotten into many discussions on the BC board about their FA process and why it is so disappointing to me. I won't get into that here, but I should say that the only reason I get so passionate about it is because I love the school. I have essentially grown up on its campus watching everything from women's basketball to hockey since I was around 5. I an an obsessive Eagles fan, I know tons of people there and love them all, and I get this wonderful, inextricable sense of pride whenever I am on campus. I applied EA and thought I would end up there but as you can see, they have made that quite difficult. Even with my intense personal connection with BC, I find it extremely hard to justify spending an extra $30K per year (even though my parents have said they would be willing to cover a bit more if I chose BC) over two equally amazing universities. In my gut, I would probably not be able to turn down BC given an equal playing field (even if it was BC vs. Harvard), and people have told me that if I really want to go there in my heart, I could make it work. That is technically true. But is it worth the unnecessary effort?</p>

<p>The thing is, it would still be very hard to choose BC over the other two even on an equal playing field. Even though I love BC's beautiful and talented people, lively social life, athletic scene, and great location, it is a little preppy and it being literally a mile down the street from home, even though BC already is home to some extent, might be a little too much (especially if I were to live on Newton campus -- I live in Newton city). Plus, I'd like to get to some other part of the country and get that new experience.</p>

<p>So I think I can answer my own first question, which is whether I should even be considering BC. The consensus will probably be "no," and somewhere inside I think that is the case. Objectively, I can say I do not think it is worth an extra $25-30K over CMU or W&M, even if I could theoretically make a lot of sacrifices to make it happen. So even though it kills me, I don't think I will be going there. My question is: this makes sense, right? And I don't know if I would feel the same way about BC if I didn't have the longstanding relationship I do already. If I go somewhere else, do you think it would be possible in the future to keep that loyal allegiance to the school and the teams even though I turned it down? That looks like a stupid question even to me, but I think it is something that is really internally bugging me because I don't want to "betray" BC, or something.</p>

<p>Practically, then, it is down to William & Mary and Carnegie Mellon. I haven't mentioned yet that I am going to be majoring in Econ. I literally have no idea what I want to do with my life and don't give a **** about job placements or grad school acceptance rates or internship recruiters. I want to go to college to learn about and explore the things I love already, and discover things I don't yet. Let me get that out of the way.</p>

<p>Academically, I think both schools are awesome. CMU definitely has the "name brand" reputation (caveat: I promised myself "prestige" would not be a factor, but since I got in, I think it has sneakily influenced my thinking since I was not prepared to have people be really, genuinely impressed that I got into CMU. I think this has at least a little value.) but it's also refreshing to see W&M called "nerdy" since compared to CMU, it isn't, but compared to most public schools, it's definitely more intellectual. Which is great. As for econ programs, CMU's seems more real world applications/mathematics-based, whereas W&M's seems more theoretical and interdisciplinary, though how can I know that for sure unless I go there? I don't even know which I would prefer. They're both great; just... different. That is a common theme here. W&M supposedly has amazing professors in terms of teaching, which is a big plus, but CMU attracts big names in fields. Again, is one better than the other? I don't know. I think I prefer W&M slightly in this regard, but I'm sure the differences are negligible. I would be in H&SS at CMU, by the way, which I have heard is a joke; a double-major factory. I don't know whether this is true -- it didn't seem that way in person.</p>

<p>Here is the main dilemma. I'm different from most people I have seen on here in that my main goals in college are the one I said two paragraphs up and also to develop socially into a confident and outgoing person. Now, I am very shy/reserved in general and uncomfortable around people I don't know well. I am fine with close friends, but it is so hard to break down those barriers. In college, I think it would be helpful if I was at a place with a more communal feeling than being left to make the most of everything. Obviously that kind of independence is important for self-growth, but I think a little bit of help would be beneficial to me. At W&M, I got the feeling that it's an extremely friendly campus with overwhelming school pride and a kind, caring, family-like atmosphere. At CMU, it was definitely better on my visit than I thought it would be, but I am still worried about the techie nature of the school (i.e. antisocial rep) as well as inordinate lack of school spirit and although I'm so happy that CFA exists there, I'm worried that the different colleges might be a bit fragmented socially and even though different parts of me identify with techie types as well as artsy types (I don't really have a natural clique), it might be hard for me to branch out into different groups at CMU. H&SS is supposed to be a socially normal school with a roughly even male:female ratio, but, it still worries me that it will be hard to branch out. There might be <em>too much</em> independence, something that might have to do with the more open campus and urban location (which I think is PERFECT, by the way). Yes, it might be petty, but I want to feel confident when I'm talking to pretty girls. I want to have a core group of friends but feel like I could be friends with anyone on campus. The question is, how much hand-holding do I need and am I capable of achieving this social development on my own at a place like CMU? Or, maybe CMU is better in this regard than I thought? This is where I need help, because no matter how many things I like better on paper about CMU, I keep going back to the Tribe at W&M, both literally and figuratively. After all, they are one of the happiest student bodies out there.</p>

<p>Other factors: I love CMU's location and campus as I mentioned but W&M's is also very nice. It's in a pretty small town, however, and coming from right outside a big city (Boston), will I be reminded of this every day? Will the number of things to do on campus make me forget that I am in a 50% college student town? The money difference here is mostly irrelevant. Oh, and I am used to northeastern winters, so Pittsburgh won't be too hard to adjust to, but will it really make a difference if I go to VA and have a mild winter for once? I am pretty ambivalent towards cold and snow, but then again, I have never known anything different. I'm not big into greek life and not a big partier so I don't want that to be overwhelming, but it is nice once in a while. And I like that Pitt is right next to CMU. It might help with the social situation and male:female ratio, though I don't know how much students from the two schools interact, if at all.</p>

<p>I have exhausted pretty much every resource that I have in making this choice: visits (multiple to BC), online/paper guidebooks, crazy spreadsheets, and truly days of thought. I even did this online survey of deciding where to go and both schools score 138 (BC was 136). The only conclusion I have come to is that I love both schools; they are just different. And that's why it's so hard -- I don't know which one I would enjoy more, and no matter which I choose, I am giving up the experience of going to the other. The opportunity cost is freaking stratospheric. Yes, I'm an Econ major. And there are fewer than 22 hours left. Gah.</p>

<hr>

<p>Sorry for the novel. A brief summary:</p>

<p>I love BC and have all my life but they gave me no money.
-I should definitely drop BC, right?
-I would still be able to love BC even if I don't go there, right? (This, if "yes," will make it less hard to drop BC)</p>

<p>CMU and W&M gave me a lot of money but I can't decide.
Academics at both are outstanding but CMU might have better "prestige."
-Should I disregard this completely? Because it's hard to do even though I intended to.
I am an Econ major and can't tell which program would be better for me.
My primary goal is to grow socially and I don't know if that requires a big family-type of environment a la W&M.
-Will I feel at home at "nerdy," (and kind of artsy but potentially fragmented/polarized between them), low-spirit CMU, or are these all just big misconceptions? Will nearby Pitt mitigate these concerns?
-Is W&M's caring, communal environment with happy students a better fit?
-How much "hand-holding" (in terms of environment) do I need to feel more comfortable around others?
-Will I feel totally isolated at W&M and how much will this affect me daily? I'm used to the city, how hard is it to be in a more rural area?</p>

<p>-Am I totally misjudging anything here, whether it be my needs or my assessments of a particular school? Be honest.</p>

<p>I love both schools, but they are definitely different.
-Which is a better fit for me overall?</p>

<p>That's the $30,000 question right there. Any help is greatly appreciated. I don't know if I'll have some sort of epiphany today but time is short and I still feel like I might as well flip a coin.</p>

2

<p>Just a bump, as I will be out of the house for the next several hours.</p>

3

<p>Personally, I’d choose W&M even if I had to pay a little extra to take it over CMU!</p>

4

<p>I’m trying to understand how you wound up with a better finaid offer at W&M than at BC. Were you offered a Murray Scholarship at W&M (its biggest merit award, about $20K annually)? I ask because, imo, W&M’s lone Achilles’ heel as a school is its limited ability to help OOS students with finaid. </p>

<p>For someone like you, I do think that the social environment and faculty commitment to undergrad teaching at W&M would make for a great fit. There isn’t at all the same kind of sports scene as at BC, as you know - not that it’s comparable at CMU, either. However, sports are of great interest to students on campus - not only the better-known sports, but IMs and niche sports, too. There’s an outstanding and much-used gym at W&M, and many students are runners - athletics is part of life at the College, but not in the same way as at BC.</p>

<p>BC’s proximity to Boston is a real advantage to its students, though the immediate vicinity is similar to W&M’s (you might even say it’s got less going on commercially than Williamsburg). CMU’s in a great city. If getting off campus for more urban possibilities is important to you, W&M ranks third. Richmond and Norfolk are less than an hour away, though freshmen aren’t allowed to have cars and the traffic situation in Norfolk is ridiculous. </p>

<p>It is a tough decision. I think the student bodies at CMU and W&M are probably pretty similar socially I don’t think it’s fair to brand CMU students as more techy and therefore maybe less social. For a state school, W&M does a GREAT job of “handholding,” as you put it, though in an appropriate way. I think you’d find the on-campus social experience you’re looking for at W&M. You say you’re not really interested in better career opportunities in making your decision - they’re be good at W&M, but I imagine better at CMU.</p>

5

<p>It sounds like you understand the two schools really well - I agree with most of what you said. Go where you feel most comfortable.</p>

6

<p>I have a D at BC although we live in CA. She loves BC, I love BC, her mom loves BC. She loved living on Newton her Freshman year (2 years ago).</p>

<p>My advice to you: </p>

<p>Get over BC, and go to W&M or CMU. Put that extra money towards grad school. That BC love will remain in your heart forever, even though you are attending another school.</p>

7

<p>I agree with ricegal- go where you feel comfortable. Econ here is pretty good (large emphasis on math- not sure if this matters to you). I go to CMU.</p>

<p>As for the social scene here, yes, it can be a little fragmented. As somebody who has transferred from CFA to H&SS, I’ve gotten some teasing (H&less stress hahahahaha) but honestly, I have friends in every school here; people don’t really care what you’re studying (and if they do they’re morons) so don’t worry too much about that. Also, Orientation is a great time to “branch out”- I’m sort of uncomfortable around people I don’t know too but it was easy to make friends- and I have great friends here. Pittsburgh is a wonderful city, as you mentioned. Williamsburg is beautiful, however.</p>

<p>If you want a smaller, more liberal-arts feel, go to W&M. You have two great choices. Good Luck. When you make a decision, don’t look back. Just go with it.</p>

8

<p>You can always go to BC for grad school if you want to add some prestige to your resume. CMU and WM are not horrible choices, especially given the costs.</p>

<p>BC really only becomes a major factor if you want to major in business. Then you should probably go to BC and not look back. Otherwise, the other two options are good ones.</p>

9

<p>W & M sounds like the perfect fit for you from my perspective. It’s a friendly and smaller campus which will allow for you to come out of your shell a bit. The level of education is also superb, and for that price, I have to say W & M. The student body has been changing over the past several years as the students being accepted now have even higher gpa’s and test scores --more nerds actually at W & M now too. We’re instate VA – W & M is considered a “public ivy”, right on par with UVA.
All three of your options are fantastic, but it’s so important right now to be cautious about the amount of debt you have after graduation. That’s my 2 cents.</p>

10

<p>Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Go to W&M. It is cheaper and much stronger academics.</p>

11

<p>The social aspect at either school will be what you make it. My son is very social…he had a wonderful time at CMU, joined a fraternity and had friends in lots of majors. And a gf down the road at Pitt.</p>

<p>On the southern leg (from NJ) of our college tours we ended up at W&M. I liked it, but S wanted nothing to do with it and didn’t apply. It was beautiful, and since it must have been rush weekend there were lots of pretty girls. Still he kept asking what do you do (in the town, or city) off campus? It’s quaint but there’s busloads of tourists everywhere, with a bunch of quaint cutsie stores. If you want to buy a good smoked Virginia ham, you can, and we did. </p>

<p>You might ask yourself what appeals more…city or country (town?). For S it was in the end JHU vs CMU, both as it turns out in cities. I think you’ll find your social niche at either one. But it’s the setting that’s so different. It’s good that you’ve thrown out rankings at this point. They’re both great schools.There’s a lot of action in and around CMU. W&M appears quieter and more peaceful.</p>

<p>You can’t go wrong with this choice. Make it and don’t look back. Best of luck!</p>

12

<p>Wow! It really sounds as if you have done your homework and have a good feel for the schools. As an Econ Major at W&M, I definitely agree with exactly how you characterized the College. I am obviously biased, but this line made me think that W&M would be great for you:

One of the things I have enjoyed most is going to random visiting speakers, documentaries, and other events. There is a campus-wide email that goes out twice a week with lists of upcoming events, and my friends and I often pick some that sound interesting to attend, no matter what the field.</p>

<p>With regards to W&M’s location in a suburban town: well, I have never been lacking for things to do, even just on campus [see above]. Having a large lake on campus and two major rivers within a few minutes drive is certainly helpful, and there are a few large shopping districts nearby with every type of store or entertainment venue that you could imagine as well. I should also note that tourists don’t usually wander onto campus besides for the Wren Building and the Art Museum. Boundary street really does act as one!</p>

<p>Don’t get too excited by the prospect for a “mild winter” either. It may snow once or twice, and November to March is infallibly a heavy sweatshirt or jacket season still.</p>

<p>

I think its important to note the difference between outgoing and extroverted (thank you random psychology lecture). When I came into college as the stereotypical introvert, I also wanted to better conform to the American (I specify because I am currently studying abroad, and this is not the case in Europe) norm of extroversion. What I have found that I needed, however, is just to balance my introverted need for time alone for reflection and, in combination with lots of practice, develop the confidence to be able to hold a good conversation with strangers or even groups - something I would have dreaded in high school. Heck, I was even recently elected as president of a large campus group, which is stereotypically the job of an extrovert. I guess what I’m trying to say is that Introvert/Extrovert isn’t really something you can change, but seeking, as you accurately put it, to be outgoing can be a good thing. Just remember to make some alone-time, even if its just a walk through Colonial Williamsburg at night or reading in a garden in order to process your thoughts.</p>

<p>Whatever you decide, goodluck in your journey!</p>

13

<p>Thank you for the truly wonderful responses everyone! If anyone else has anything to add, I will be finalizing my decision within a half-hour or so. Sometimes I think I might be leaning one way but it never ceases to amaze me how independently wonderful each of these schools is – I am reminded every time I think about it. It is coming down to head vs. heart, I can tell you that. I just hate that I will have to miss out on one of these undergrad experiences due to the emotional equivalent of a coin flip. </p>

<p>Thanks again everyone, you have all been really helpful. I will respond more in depth once I have gotten the deposit in to University X!</p>

14

<p>You know what? Right after I made that last post, I decided. I wanted to refresh this thread one more time, but I put on my William & Mary shirt and went downstairs without looking back. :)</p>

15

<p>Right attitude. You will have a great 4 years!</p>