convince me

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
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<p>My wife and I are W&M alums from the early 1980's, and we live in Virginia. My son was recruited by U of South Carolina, and was accepted into the Honors College there. He has recieved a $4,000 per year scholarship for all 4 years, plus a $2,000 per year departmental scholarship for 2 years. Plus, anyone who gets merit aid at USC gets in-state tuition. He will get 24 hours of AP credits at USC, and will get to design his own major through the honors college. He wants to somehow combine computer science, math, French, and possibly some Arabic. He was really sure he wanted to go to USC until.....</p>

<p>Here's the dilemma. He got his W&M acceptance last week, and now he is wavering. I think he really wants to go to W&M, and I can't help but be excited. To me though, he will save so much money by going to USC, that we will be able to pay for grad school. He is getting in-state vs in-state, but at USC will get a total of $20,000 in merit aid,vs $0 at W&M.</p>

<p>Help convince me he should go to W&M!</p>

2

<p>Just to add: S wants to double major in CS/Math, and at most schools the CS major is part of the engineering school. W&M doesn't even have an engineering school. I would guess those two departments are among the weaker W&M majors due to the fact that W&M is a liberal arts institution.</p>

<p>Any feedback from current students or other alums who majored in those fields would be welcome.</p>

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<p>If he really wants to go to W&M, he should go, regardless of money. You seem to realize that, which makes you an awesome parent. I wouldn't worry too much about the major (unless a current student tells you they reaaallly stink), because your son may very well change his mind and will probably benefit from the LAC environment which encourages taking a variety of classes. But when it really comes down to it, by May 1st, he'll know in his gut what HE wants to do.</p>

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<p>Has he visited both schools? Visiting Colonial Williamsburg on a field trip doesn't count =P. W&M often grabs people as soon as they step on campus. It has some intangibles. It might just feel right (on the other hand it might feel like you would never want to spend 4 years here). I also feel comfortable in saying that the student population at W&M is probably significantly stronger than that at South Carolina, though their honors program seems very respectable.</p>

<p>On the surface, you would probably think that computer science at W&M is not one of their stronger fields. I believe the choices in classes are slightly limiting, and it is one of the smaller departments within the College. However, recent computer science grads have gone on to UVA, UNC, Georgia Tech, Columbia, Dartmouth, Wisconsin, Johns Hopkins, and GW to continue their studies. So I would say they do ok.</p>

<p>He can design his own major at W&M.</p>

<p>Is what he got as South Carolina the Capstone thing? One of my cousins is in that and it seems like a really good program. I don't know what he will get in the way of AP credits at W&M, but you can easily find out in the course catalog.</p>

<p>How is the money issue for the family? I feel like $20,000 over 4 years isn't that much in the big scheme of things. If it was going to be a difference of $50,000+, it might be a different story, at least in my mind.</p>

<p>Hope that helps some... feel free to keep asking =)</p>

5

<p>Thanks, Soccerguy</p>

<p>Son and wife have visited, and plan to go on April 14 to the Accepted Students' Day. My son loves the campus, and I am sure he would fit in well there.</p>

<p>He was accepted at USC into the HC, plus he received a Cooper Scholarship, which is $4,000 per year. He also received $2,000 per year for 2 years from the CS dept.</p>

<p>It would be pretty cool for him to go to W&M since we are alums.</p>

<p>I would be interested if you know anyone who is a math major, because my son is interested in doing a double major in CS/Math. He also would like to minor in French, and learn some Arabic.</p>

<p>He hasn't taken many AP classes, but he has made 5's on Calculus, French, and American History. He will be taking AP Statistics and CS exams this spring. Assuming he gets 5's on those, I believe he will have 26 credits.</p>

<p>Can he use these hours in order to take extra electives at W&M? In other words, act like he has no credits and take 120 hours in undergrad, and end up with 146 credits?</p>

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<p>You W&M people aren't supporting very well your decision to attend there.</p>

<p>Anyone??????</p>

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<p>"He can design his own major at W&M."</p>

<p>You can do that at W&M? Wow, I didn't know. I'm going to design the most awesome major ever.</p>

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<p>namtrag, your son will be exempt from the math GER and the foreign language proficiency requirement. Meaning he will have a bit more flexibility to take classes. Assuming he gets a 5 on the Comp Sci exam that would go towards his major and he'd start taking a Data Structures class along with a Discrete Structures class for Computer Science. He doesn't necessarily have to take those classes but they are the next two available for him to take for the Computer Science major requirements. As to the credits, yes he can end up with more than 120 credits.</p>

<p>As for me, I chose W&M because I was required to stay in-state due to finances and I preferred a more academic environment over the more stereotypical party scene at UVA. I also was fond of the small campus and LAC feel (I would have gone to a LAC if I had more options).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I would be interested if you know anyone who is a math major, because my son is interested in doing a double major in CS/Math. He also would like to minor in French, and learn some Arabic.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I do know a few math majors. If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to see if I could get some answers from them. At W&M, he will NOT be allowed to have 2 majors and a minor. I guess he could take the required classes, but you can only get 2 subjects on your degree. But, as I said, he could design his own major. The website for that is: <a href="http://www.wm.edu/charlescenter/?id=1302%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wm.edu/charlescenter/?id=1302&lt;/a> (apparently datkid is interested in this too, lol)</p>

<p>He can definitely take more credits and end up with more than 120. However, after you reach a certain credit number, it is required that you declare a major, which doesn't sound like it would be an issue for your son, but for some people can be slightly pressuring if they don't know what they want to do yet (of course you can always change).</p>

<p>... and I love W&M, for the record.</p>

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<p>Thanks, everyone! </p>

<p>I loved it too, but I am old (45), and I am sure it has changed a lot since I went there. I wouldn't even get in now, I am positive of that.</p>

<p>The reason I am asking is, I am getting a lot of feedback on the USC thread I started that W&M is a real pressure cooker now, just want to be able to show my S that there are many more kids who love it at W&M than there are who hate it because of the pressure.</p>

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<p>ok well, I went and found that USC thread, so I'll comment about a few things =P</p>

<p>I would not be turned off from W&M by a couple stories about rough grading. On the other hand, it is probably true that the majority of WM students can share a story or two about some rough grades they received. Sometimes the grades at the end of the first semester or midterms are kind of a shock. The vast majority of WM students were in the top 10% of their graduating class with GPAs of close to 4.0 and higher. Well, everyone cannot be top 10%. That is just simple math. A lot of kids come to WM never havingi seen a C, so when they get one or two (or more), that can be an unhappy situation for them, especially if they really care a lot about the grades. The average GPA for freshmen year is under 3.0. That's quite a change from the 4.0 that most kids had in high school. If you come to W&M thinking you are going to leave with a 4.0, you are going to be very disappointed. There's no way around that. W&M doesn't accept students that they know won't be able to be successful here. Sometimes freshmen year is tough, but it can be at any college, and the bad grades might be coming from something completely unrelated to academics (personal life, new freedom, partying, etc).</p>

<p>W&M has a reputation for being stressful, that is probably deserving. However, the stress does not come from the other students. Many people here are very driven and want to do well in everything they do. They spend hours a day in the library so satisfy themselves. They don't do it because "Billy is studying for 10 hours today, so if I don't, then Billy will get a higher grade than me". They do it because they want the high grade for themselves. If Billy wasn't studying 10 hours, the other person still would be. And for the record, I never go to the library.</p>

<p>Your Son is turned off by some parts of the campus at USC. As you know, since you went here, the W&M campus is one of the nicest in the country.</p>

<p>Does he care about the student body? I think he would find W&M a much more stimulating environment outside of class.</p>

<p>As far as credits go, he would get:
Calc - 4 (or 8 if it was BC)
French - 6
American Hist - 6
AP Stat - 0
Comp Sci - 4</p>

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<p>soccerguy</p>

<p>You are preaching to the choir. I had a 2.9 when I got out, and still got a job at Price Waterhouse!</p>

<p>Of course, I hated business school. I had a 2.6 in accounting and business courses, and 3.5 in all my other classes.</p>

<p>I majored in accounting because my dad said I wouldn't be able to get a job with a history degree. History was my first love.</p>

<p>I have preached to my sons to major in something they love, and the career will take care of itself.</p>

<p>After you posted the AP credits, I remembered the AP stats gets zero, this is also true at UVA. USC gives 3 hours for the Stat AP.</p>

<p>At USC we also met with the French Dept head who said he wished he could give my son the higher level placement test ( I think they give one to the run of the mill students, and also have another one for kids who score high on AP and SAT suject test) . Apparently, when they were conversing in French, my S impressed him with his fluency. He said it would be possible that S might be placed in Jr level French courses, at least for the conversational classes.</p>

<p>I really appreciate you taking the time out to give me all this good info. I know you are busy. Thanks a lot!</p>

<p>As far as the student body goes, I believe he would be in in an intellectual major of CS/Math, so would probably be hanging around some other smart kids. Plus he would be living in the HC dorm. </p>

<p>Campus beauty is W&M hands down, although the Horshoe area at USC is really nice.</p>

<p>Sports would be in favor of USC, but my S is not a big sports fan anyway.</p>

<p>It really comes down to the money and distance factors, in my opinion. USC wants these type of kids so they throw some money their way. W&M knows they have a huge waiting list, so they don't give merit aid very often.</p>

<p>We have enough saved up for S to go to W&M for 3.5-4 years. USC is cheaper for room, board and tuition, so the 20k is more like 25k. So basically, grad school money will be forfeited if he goes to W&M.</p>

<p>That is really the only reason I am in favor of him going to USC.</p>

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<p>I would be interested if you know anyone who is a math major,</p>

<p>I'm an 06 alum with a 38 hour minor in math. I could probably answer a few questions.</p>

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<p>namtrag, ( you're not old at 45 please!!! are you an 83 or 84 grad?) </p>

<p>Many companies now will pay for grad school for their employees or he could take out a low interest loan. There's nothing wrong with your son paying for grad school on his own. </p>

<p>Just based on what you've said about your son, it sounds like he'd be happy in a learning environment like W&M. </p>

<p>Our daughter is planning to major in History and yes, it's not very practical, but we figure she's a smart girl and how many people actually get a job in what they majored in in college. Our son is at the Naval Academy (basically an engineering school) and he'a a History major! (At least we know he'll have a job when he graduates). If our daughter loves what she's learning and does well, she'll be fine in life.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I am an 83 grad, my wife is an 84 grad. I was a KA, and wife was a KAT.</p>

<p>I think we were in the anti 60's backlash, so our parents made us major in something practical. I don't want my kids stuck in a career field they are not passionate about. (Like me, I just do it to make money. I really hate my field).</p>

<p>Unfortunately, my older S, who is at UVA, somehow has become the Michael J. Fox character from that 1980's show (can't remember the name of the show, so I guess I am getting old!). He is a materialistic person, so he will probably major in business just so he can make money.</p>

<p>My younger S is more idealistic, he actually wants to work for the NSA or something of that nature when he gets out.</p>

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<p>Also, you mentioned your son is interested in grad school. Is he thinking going the PhD route?</p>

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<p>I would not be surprised, but he has not told me how far he wants to go. He did say he is interested in too many subjects, and is kind of upset that he can't major in all of them. French, Arabic, Applied Math, Computer Science, and Physics, just to name a few. He also really likes poetry. He is an interesting kid, can't pigeonhole him as a science vs verbal person.</p>

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<p>I read this on Princeton Review.com about William and Mary, that 95% of students return as sophomores. That's got to mean something about the school.<br>
Hopefully, when your son and wife come for Accepted Students Day, he'll be able to ask the right people all his questions.</p>

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<p>Yeah, and if you believe the rumors, I guess the other 5% commited suicide!!!</p>

<p>LOL</p>

<p>That stupid "statistic" has been around for so many years, even was old when I was in school.</p>

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<p>namtrag, was your son accepted into the Monroe Scholars program? There seem to be lots of opportunities for research in the program as well as help with graduate scholarships.</p>