<p>@alihaq717: While applying ED is a poor choice if you’re unsure of how to finance it (ED is hard to get out of!) I still urge you to apply RD…I was very surprised when NYU gave me a scholarship since I had fairly average stats. You never know, you might get better financial aid than you expected. It is still worth a shot if NYU is your 1st or 2nd choice in colleges. </p>
<p>@Vonegutted: Yes but I believe that if you want to double major in Tisch/CAS, then you have to apply and be accepted to Tisch as your “primary school”. CAS students can’t decide we want to double-major in Tisch, but Tisch students can double major in CAS. Same with Steinhardt as far as I know. </p>
<p>@Jassy: It may be since many NYU students/alums don’t approve of the Administration’s decisions even if we like our college. Personally I hate JSex’s crazy expansion plans and wouldn’t ever donate to NYU unless I was sure the money was going to benefit students or academics directly.</p>
<p>btw, when I was making my argument on how Stern grads can take that loan, I wasn’t even talking about Goldman Sachs after graduation. Just for your info, a starting analyst position from Goldman Sach nails you a total compensation of on average $130,000 starting salary ($70k base, +$50 bonus, +$12 sign in bonus) - you can check wallstreetoasis if you are still skeptical, which is more than enough to pay off any loan within 4 years (if you’re lucky enough to land that job).</p>
<p>I was actually referring to mostly middle market, maybe the lower-end upper firms, which end up on about a $70k - $80k compensation which in my opinion is still a great job for a kid straight out of college. The fact is, only a few (albeit still quite a number) of Stern kids get jobs as prestigious as Goldman Sach and become super rich, yet another fact is all Stern grads end up getting a job (98% placement rate in 2008 recession), and make on an average of $70k - $80k with bonuses.</p>
<p>But I still do get your general point - that taking about loans in the six figures is pretty crazy, and one should really contemplate the issue before doing so, even if one would be from Stern or not. However I would say that graduating from Stern with a $120k debt would be much more doable, than say majoring in history/English with a $100k debt. </p>
<p>@CASmom</p>
<p>CASmom: Oh, and as for number 4, my daughter got really good grades in her European Studies and Romance Languages majors and her Middles Eastern and Islamic Studies minor and got a full ride fellowship and stipend to grad school at NYU. I’ll put her fluency in three languages ( four by the time she finishes grad school) up against your undergraduate science degree any day when it comes to post-grad earning power.</p>
<p>You talk as if your daughter is going to super-succeed in life and become a millionaire. Let’s get the fact straight - she majored in European Studies/Romance languages (minors aren’t really regarded by employers) and is from NYU (not an ivy) and you expect that her degree will beat an undergraduate science degree such as physics? I understand that you want to advocate your daughter’s choices (because of course, you are her mother), but you are dead wrong that her masters in European Studies/Romance languages is going to get employers begging for her. No offense but she might as well have “mastered” in sign languages too. Oh that’s another +1 for your daughter’s “# of languages spoken!” ROFL</p>
<p>^ Ok let’s not be mean…I feel like people are taking my comment out of context. I repeat: I did not intend to say that certain programs at NYU are not worth the money - I would never say that. I have friends in every school but Nursing and SCPS, studying everything from Medieval & Renaissance Studies to International Business. What I was trying to say is so many people who cannot afford this university take out serious loans under the misconception that because NYU is prestigious - or because a certain program is prestigious - that $200k is normal because they will make a ton of money. I was trying to point out that this isn’t usually the case and wouldn’t reccomend anyone to burden themselves that much. </p>
<p>And I wouldn’t knock learning languages because that is very hard after a certain age…growing up we spoke english/spanish/italian at home so those were easy for me, but it took me years and years to grasp french and my accent is atrocious.</p>
<p>@CASmom - I think you just jumped to conclusions. When Alix2012 wrote that she would not advise people to take huge loans and was against the whole thing, it definitely does not show disdain. Her comments were only opposing the whole loans craze. Everybody here including Alix2012 who wrote against student loans have shown that they actually love the college - because they don’t want to see a bunch of unhappy grads from their school, like the CNN guy. It only leads to a bad name for the college if it has many unhappy grads, which these students with huge loans can become. I’d call it love for NYU rather than disdain. On a personal level, I’d rather have friends and alumni be happy with my college, rather than be unhappy with the whole experience, because it makes my college better.</p>
<p>I’m sure you’re a proud mom - but trying to write about your daughter and defend your daughters choices here does nothing to gain our respect or our admiration. </p>
<p>Even if people claim that their majors are better than others, its because they love the program a lot rather than think that the other programs are not worth the money. I’m going to Stern and I’m not going to say Stern is among the top programs of NYU today because the rest of NYU programs are not that great (which definitely is not the case). I’d rather focus on my programs strengths, which is what many people do here. Even if its not so, majors like Finance, Math, Physics and Computer science are more important than European Studies and Romance Languages in today’s world. Which is why people think their programs are among the best, but its general human nature to think so - posting on a forum is not going to change that.</p>
<p>Alix: “I repeat: I did not intend to say that certain programs at NYU are not worth the money - I would never say that.”</p>
<p>Re-read your post #81. That’s exactly what you said, in that post and in many others. You can back pedal and try to re-frame it all you want but that is exactly what you said and why I got so angry at your words and your tone. Honestly, I’m horrified that you are a Welcome Week Leader and I hope you soften the negative rhetoric quite a bit by then. I don’t think that your Welcome Week supervisors would appreciate you making the kinds of negative, anti-NYU comments you have made in this thread— and often make in other threads as well—to the newly-minted CAS students. Your post history is forever, Alix. I don’t regret anything on mine. Can you say the same? </p>
<p>By the way, did you know that NYU’s Italian Department is ranked # 1 in the U.S.? So is the Philosophy Department. Humanities-----who would have guessed?</p>
<p>NYU totally isn’t just an Ivy-reject school. I’m going to Stern next fall and I actually turned down an Ivy (Columbia) for NYU because I realized that NYU provided more of the opportunities that I wanted for my undergrad education. I’m saving the Ivy league for my graduate schooling.</p>
<p>I will say that I don’t think certain degrees are worth the money that NYU asks for. Like, it’s fine if you have good FA and scholarships, but if you’re paying it out of pocket or in loans I just don’t see the practicality. In no way am I bashing anyone’s major, it is about love for the program, but as Alix2012 advised you shouldn’t take out huge loans for it. NYU has great programs but the need for people experience in certain subjects varies. It really depends on each person’s financial situation and their desires, not everyone wants to make $100k+. Debt is no joke though. I, personally, wouldn’t be going to NYU if I had to take out huge loans. I’m fortunate not to have to.</p>
<p>Everyone needs to realistically assess their own financial situation when it comes to college. The problem is that there are so many people who don’t. Too many people are blinded by the emotion of choosing a college. People are too quick to look for the right brand name and ‘prestige’ factor and forget about the cost/benefit analysis of the investment. </p>
<p>There are several easy ways to estimate the total cost of your education and loan repayment schedules. Next year NYU will cost, on average, $54,000. Assuming the cost of attendance increases 3.5% each year for the next four years (as it increased this year), you are looking at a whopping $227,606.92 in total assuming you graduate on time. </p>
<p>Obviously, that is before interest. A PLUS loan is fixed at 7.9%. Assuming you put your entire bill on a PLUS loan, there is absolutely no way the average middle-income college student could ever afford to pay that off at a reasonable rate. </p>
<p>To pay if off on time in 20 years, you would need to pay $1900/month and would pay $225,000 in interest over the lifetime of the repayment schedule. That is $2,000 less than your principal amount! To pay it off in 30 years, you would still need to pay $1650/month and pay $367,000 in interest over the lifetime of the loan. To be able to pay off either loan, you would need to have an annual salary of at least mid to high six figures (~15% monthly take home). Completely unrealistic. </p>
<p>The worst part is that most grads taking out this much debt will probably have to resort to private loans for the majority of their loans, not federal ones. While federal loans are currently capped at 15% of income and discharged after 25 years, private loans are not capped and interest payments are variable and will almost certainly go up.</p>
<p>Yup I agree with you on that, I wouldn’t say NYU Stern is a total ivy reject (several people turned down Cornell and Brown for Stern) although I would say it is to an extent for the other ivy league schools (HYP, Columbia, Upenn), but then again, if you were to think of it in that way, almost every other school besides the super non-ivy elite (stanford, MIT, caltech) is also an “ivy-reject” to an extent too.</p>
<p>However I think what would be a more precise label for NYU Stern would be a Wharton-reject school. The truth is, a LOT of NYU Stern kids have applied to Wharton in one form or another and were rejected - those students (including myself) would most probably have attended Wharton if given the opportunity to choose.</p>
<p>Calling NYU the ivy reject is really bull—t. That is an off-hand remark that is made about a lot of tier 1 schools. Reality is you will see a lot of ivy rejects waliking all over many campuses.</p>
<p>D chose not to apply to Ivies because they did not offer a performance degree in music nor the opportunity to minor in business classes related to the entertainment/ music industry. Plus she wanted to intern during the year which she has done at Sony Music. I am not putting down what the Ivies offer, but they are not for everyone, and NYU is the first choice school for many smart and talented students.</p>
<p>@CASMom: No, I don’t regret my posts; what I regret is responding to someone who repeatedly ignores my points and resorts to petty insults. I wasn’t “back pedaling”, I tried to re-explain my point since you were the only one incapable of understanding the first time around. My mistake - I see now it was a waste of time. </p>
<p>You seem to think anything less than positive about NYU makes the person “Anti-NYU”. When I say NYU has poor FA and is expensive, that is not being “anti-NYU”, it is a fact. When I say I don’t think a Bachelor’s is worth $200k in loans, you take it as a personal attack and lash out - it honestly makes me embarrassed for you. </p>
<p>I have repeatedly posted on this forum that CAS’s best programs are Philosophy, Math, Italian, IR and Econ, so obviously I’m aware of it. You’re haughty tone isn’t impressing anyone, it makes you look childish and like you have nothing worth contributing.
Yeah and can’t we say that for any school that’s not Harvard and the like? That it’s an “ivy reject” school?</p>
<p>Yet I hear people say this about NYU all the time…in real life and on CC. I’ve literally had people say to my face (jokingly) “For people with the money for Columbia, but not the brains to get in!”</p>
<p>Honestly I think it’s because our financial aid is poor. The 2 most negative stereotypes I hear about NYU are: It’s an ivy reject school and it’s for rich kids. Also that we have to take the subway from class to class, but that’s another story.</p>
<p>I have met all of my daughters roomates and friends, freshman year and sophomore year. None of them are rich kids. I even had Tisch film kids, 4 and 2 of their Hofstra friends at my house doing a short film and they are not rich, none were from NY or the surrounding tristate area. So randomly, the kids I have met are not rich.</p>
<p>Now all of my MD colleague’s kids go to either the IVYs or the state U and they are rich kids.</p>
<p>CASMom: Your attacks against Alix2012 are completely unjustified. Her posts on misconceptions about NYU are in no way showing her disdain for NYU. Maybe you should read them a little bit closer. She makes valid points about NYU / college in general that many people are not aware of. They may sound harsh but she’s making her points out of love for NYU, not hate. I also don’t see why you need to compare your daughter to what she is doing. I applaud your daughter’s success in her studies, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of people are fluent in 2,3,4 languages. I believe Alix2012’s degree will hold more weight with employers.</p>
<p>I’m currently an NYU student: I was an Ivy League reject, am opposed to John Sexton’s expansion policies, think NYU is overpriced and that our financial aid is terrible. Does this mean I hate NYU? No! I love it here and couldn’t imagine being anywhere else.</p>
<p>CASmom: I agree with nyyankees2012, Alix2012 and Oilspill - I’m an NYU student (in debt) and while I also love it here, I agree our financial aid is terrible. I think you are being unjustifiably rude and I’m shocked this is coming from a parent. There are 20,000 undergrads here and most students agree our biggest issue is financing our education, too much student debt, and expansion plans that seem to be more important to the administration than better our financial aid. Pointing out $200,000 in loans is too much (especially for the degree this young woman got) isn’t anti-NYU, it’s common sense. Before you start bashing me, I also speak 3 languages (Arabic, Urdu, English - the benefit of immigrant parents, not a degree) and I’m hardly counting on that to get me a job.</p>
<p>Milkandsugar: I agree that NYU isn’t only for rich kids…outsiders assume everyone has $200,000 lying around to attend. The truth is most of us have to take out loans and graduate with a lot of debt. Most of my friends are either on scholarships or are in debt (although no one I know has around $100,000 or so). Personally I will graduate with about $16k in debt and I consider myself lucky! NYU is a fine school but I would have attended a public school or Cooper Union (a free architecture school in Manhattan) if I didn’t receive a partial scholarship.
I believe this is thanks to Urban Dictionary’s “definition” of NYU, that’s where people got this from. I’m assuming most people are kidding! No we’re not Harvard but still the #1 dream school or something like that, right? Not bad :)</p>
<p>Re-post of my original comment on page 1 of this thread:
"Where were his parents? A 17 or 18 year old should not be allowed to sign on for $50K+/year debt, no matter how prestigious the school or program. Even with a degree from NYU Stern—or Harvard, Yale, or Princeton for that matter—there are no guarantees that you will find employment, much less find the kind that pays enough to allow for repayment of that level of debt. He must have had a very high EFC and not qualified for any grant aid or scholarships. Did his family not contribute at all? Did he take more than 4 years to graduate? Did he take out the maximum loans and use the money for other purposes? It’s hard to fathom how he could have needed $275,000 in loans for an undergraduate degree. </p>
<h2>While I feel terrible for him, he did freely choose to take out the loans. Is NYU financial aid bad/terrible/stingy/etc.? Absolutely. Do they make it clear up front that they do not meet full need. Yes they do. Is his situation NYU’s fault? Clearly not."</h2>
<p>As you can see I AGREE that the students featured in the CNN video and the NYT article made a huge mistake in taking on that kind of debt. What I objected to are the things that Alix2012 said in post #81. </p>
<p>This is my last post on this thread. I refuse to be drawn into an endless spat with Alix2012 and her friends. You are entitled to your opinion.</p>
<p>I happen to agree with CASmom, No one is disagreeing with the fact that this person was foolish in taking on the ridiculous amount of debt. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Alix2012 is also rude in her posts and this is even more disheartening because she has valid points. But when snide and snarky remarks are made, it makes one less credible. I am very proud that my daughter goes to NYU, but I will dspell the notion that NYU is an ivy reject school, that any one school is better than the other. While NYU is horrible at FA and I am not happy that we are paying more than I would like to, it is a decision each family/person makes. If one is lucky enough to get most of their tution paid without taking on loans, then that is great, but for those of us who work hard and pay our share, then we like to know that what we are doing is worth it. Sorry, but an NYU degree in anything is better than a degree in somethings at a State University.
My brother went to Stern and it is all about who you know and what internshps you had and alumni connections. In some majors, it is “you get what you pay for’.”
But like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me.</p>
<p>I think that ugly label is reserved for schools that are almost as good as Ivy League colleges, but not quite. Someone who is competitive for Harvard but gets rejected probably won’t drop down to, say, Bob Jones University, but NYU might be considered a much more palatable alternative. I’m not saying that I agree with this sort of thinking – to me, it’s simultaneously elitist and ignorant – but I can sort of understand the moron logic that would lead one to conclude that NYU is some sort of trash can for kids who were almost good enough to get into an Ivy League college.</p>
<p>they’re terribly endowed, it’s hugely expensive to supply the services they do, they’re not some evil corporation - they just don’t have the endowment of many small schools. They don’t force anyone to go there, i can agree applying ED and getting screwed financially sucks - but it was his decision to make. This is not NYU at fault, they’re not being greedy or anything, it’s a fault of theirs that’s essentially unavoidable</p>
I repeat: I did not intend to say that certain programs at NYU are not worth the money - I would never say that. I have friends in every school but Nursing and SCPS, studying everything from Medieval & Renaissance Studies to International Business. What I was trying to say is so many people who cannot afford this university take out serious loans under the misconception that because NYU is prestigious - or because a certain program is prestigious - that $200k is normal because they will make a ton of money. I was trying to point out that this isn’t usually the case and wouldn’t reccomend anyone to burden themselves that much. </p>