Co-op concerns [CS major / international]

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Alabama
1

I’m an international student. I have been accepted into Honors College and and I’ll major in Computer Science. I have been awarded the Presidential and the Engineering scholarships.

I will have as many as 27 credits from APs, so I plan to skip two semesters.

I went through the [co-op site](http://coop.eng.ua.edu/) as well as some co-op threads on CC:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1922827-coop-information.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1906924-co-op-and-presidential-scholarship.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1968398-engineering-co-ops-all-in-tuscaloosa.html

I have a lot of questions.

[ul]
[] The general co-op requirements [PDF[/url] says I must complete at least two semesters (30 hours) on campus before I can start. On the contrary, the interview day requirements [url=<a href=“http://coop.eng.ua.edu/files/Schedule-of-Events-for-Spring-Interview-Day-1.pdf%5DPDF%5B/url”>http://coop.eng.ua.edu/files/Schedule-of-Events-for-Spring-Interview-Day-1.pdf]PDF[/url] says 12 hours. Considering that I’ll have 27 AP credits, how long will I actually have to wait?
[li] There aren’t a lot of companies mentioned in the Spring 2017 interview day [url=<a href=“http://coop.eng.ua.edu/files/Company-IDay-Requirements.pdf%5Dcompanies”>http://coop.eng.ua.edu/files/Company-IDay-Requirements.pdf]companies list](http://coop.eng.ua.edu/files/Program-Requirements.pdf), and only a small fraction of them recruit CS majors. How “difficult” will it be to get a co-op?[/li][li] That brings up my next question. Only three of those companies recruit international students (on F-1 visa). And Nucor is the only one that recruits CS majors. Is it the same every year? Does anyone have previous years’ information?[/li][] I can’t access the [Company Summaries](http://coop.eng.ua.edu/company-summaries/). What password is it asking for?[/ul]

Looks like it is near impossible for international students to get co-op.

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@paul2752 Some insight?

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I do not know if the availabilities of Co-op companies depend on location and university, but yes at least in UA, very few even consider international students. It is quite frustrating because you have to put even more extra effort to find internahip/coop outside the UA.

4

Damn, this is bad. Is this scenario only for co-op, or even after graduation?
Is it that hard to even find summer internships?

5

Can we get an internship or co-op outside these companies? Or are we limited just to this? There’s like literally just 1 company hiring F1 CS majors.

6

I don’t think anyone here has the answers. We’ll have to email the co-op office.

7

No matter what college you attend, getting co-ops and internships will be more difficult for int’ls for CS and this is why…

Many can only hire US citizens because of concerns about security and proprietary info. These companies can’t risk that an int’l will “take” proprietary info, share it with their home country, and leave. The company would have no means to “go after” such an offense.

That said, there are some companies that don’t have those concerns.

An int’l also has the option of seeking summer internships in their home country.

@wolfwing123 you’re not limited to any list. Bama students get their internships and co-ops from anywhere they find them…there is no limit to where they can look/find. The school doesn’t care if the opportunity is elsewhere…that is fine.

8

Well, that sounds good enough. I guess we’ll just have to figure it out when time comes.

9

post #6 spot on.

10

My daughter is a 2nd year CS major at UA. She got a co-op (at Nucor) offer last semester (so, 3rd semester on campus . . .she came in with 41 AP credits, so she was already technically a Junior) . . .

Students mostly participate in the co-op interviews 2nd semester Freshman year, 1st semester Sophomore year (when my daughter did it), and 2nd semester Sophomore year (is kinda’ late). So, go by that, and start try-ing in the co-op program the second semester you are on campus.

Even though you come in with a bunch of credits (as did my daughter), not much of those are relevant to CS, so you won’t know much that is useful to a co-op company until you have a few CS classes under your belt.

It’s tough to graduate in 6 semesters on campus in CS, but possible … Study the flowchart, consider the pre-reqs, and schedule carefully. (You’ve got 8 semesters of “free” tuition on the Presidential . . . consider doing a MS if you have time . . . My dd is a National Merit Scholar, so she’s got 5 years . . . and is planning on doing 2 majors and a MS in those 5 years).

It seems like in the fall, there were a total of 6 companies doing co-op interviews for CS majors. My dd wasn’t interested in a couple of them, and got interviews with the 4 she was interested in. You only need 1 offer, and you can only interview with up to 4 companies (maybe one or two more if you get on wait lists).

I don’t know anything about the impact of being an international student. :slight_smile:

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@mmom99
Very descriptive post. Thanks a lot.

First off, I think 41 credits would be sophomore year, not junior year.

Your daughter got Nucor? I read somewhere that Nucor is very competitive because students “lock themselves into Fall housing leases” early.

Why would it be “tough to graduate in 6 semesters”? Could you elucidate? I studied the CS flowchart and it seems pretty doable. (And if I get a 5 on AP Chemistry, then I would have 31 credits in total.) The only plausible reason I can think of is that a particular class is not available in a particular semester/year.

I’ve got 8 semesters of scholarship, but I want to graduate early. I will ask the scholarships office how much of the money I can use for study abroad in summer. There is some very confusing/contradicting information about that here on CC.

How many offers did your daughter get out of the four?

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@mundanewarrior, I’m sorry my post was unclear. Yes, my daughter entered with 41 credits, so was a Sophomore by hours when she entered. Due to those AP/CLEP hours, she was technically a Junior when she interviewed for co-ops during her 3rd semester on campus. But, she was really more of a sophomore in the CS sequence . . . I hope that makes more sense now.

I agree that it is not impossible to graduate from CS in 6 semesters. My dd could have done it if she’d really wanted to, lol. Instead she added a 2nd major (math) and also takes a lot of music courses (she plays harp). (She has 10 semesters of scholarship money, so she can/will still do a MS with the last 2 semesters. If she hadn’t had the typical 8 semesters, I’d have encouraged her to consider jamming through so she could get her BS & MS within 8 semesters.) If you have studied the flowchart and are meticulous about understanding pre-reqs, etc, it is very feasible. Just be sure to get CS100 in your first semester and go from there. The most difficult aspect of graduating in 6 semesters is that you have to have CS100/101/200/201 plus a couple ECE courses all done before you can take any of the upper division CS courses. So, you’d have to pack all the last 4 semesters of the flowchart’s CS courses into 2 semesters. That’s technically possible, I guess, but would be pretty high pressure. One thing to consider if you want to do that is that 200 & 201 do not have to be taken in sequence. You can take 200 & 201 at the same time, so presumably in Semester 3 of your 6 semester plan. Note, however, that I’m not sure you can jam in both the required ECE courses into the first 3 semesters, and those, too, are required before taking any of the upper division CE courses, I believe. Study that flow chart, and you can likely be OK.

Oh, also, if you are interested in a MS, consider the University Scholars option . . . you could use all 8 semesters and get both the BS & MS, and the University Scholars program makes that a bit easier to do time-wise.

Be aware that taking 5 CS/ECE/similar courses in a semester could be pretty overwhelming. If you already have all your “easy” general ed courses taken care of, then the remaining CS/etc courses may be a lot tougher . . . The typical 8 semester plan has you taking maybe 2-3 CS/similar “hard” courses per semester along with 2 or so easier “softer” courses. . . Replace all those easier courses with an equal number of hard courses could get out of hand hard. For my daughter’s course planning, she’s been able to keep it at about 2 CS and/or ECE courses per semester, about 1-2 math courses (her 2nd major, but these courses are quite a bit easier for my daughter, as she’s very math-y), along with 2-3 credits of music, etc. I would personally be very nervous about her taking 4-5 CS courses in one semester, but who knows, maybe the upper division courses aren’t as intense as the 100-200 courses . . . I guess we’ll find out later, lol.

Also note, not all upper div CE courses will be offered both Fall and Spring terms – so watch out for that. You can check the course catalog for recent semesters to identify which courses are offered only one term. It’s not too many, and I’m not aware of a list, but someone might have a handy list somewhere. . .

Also, note that 201 is generally considered a “killer” course. 200 isn’t too tough, comparatively, but 201 is a killer. Many good students struggle to pass, let alone to get a good grade. Taking both together is do-able but requires a serious time commitment. You’ll understand by the time you get to that point . . .

Many students can’t pass 100, 101, and/or 201 on their first try. Take them very seriously and allow a lot of time for each if you want to be sure to pass on the first go. Also, your first semester or two, be sure to also include one or two easy-A courses in your schedule to make it easier to keep your GPA up if you end up with a bad grade in a class . . .

Yep, my daughter accepted a co-op offer at Nucor. She starts work in May. It was her first choice, and she was thrilled. I’d rather not share more of her personal details/offers/etc, but I will say that many talented students don’t get any offers on their first try at co-op, but it seems that many/most get at least one offer within one cycle, and that they can try and try again!! Dd only did the co-op process that one time (her 3rd semester on campus, technically JR status), but many of her friends tried the first time during their 2nd semester on campus. None of them accepted offers who interviewed during their 2nd semester. MANY of them accepted offers from the co-op process during Semester 3. I am guessing that companies prefer to hire 3rd semester students compared to 2nd semester (which makes sense to me from a hiring perspective.) Some of them started work right away, in Semester 4 . . . while my dd is starting this summer – which was her preference. She wasn’t willing to start during Spring due to her desire to take a high-stakes CS course – 201 – with her CS buddies/study-mates that term. When you apply for co-ops, you indicate which semester(s) you are willing to start work . . . So, my best advice would be that if you’re interested in co-op’ing, try in Semester 2. If you don’t accept an offer then, try again in Semester 3. I don’t know how much longer you can keep trying (but at least through Semester 4, I am pretty sure) if you haven’t yet matched, but by then, you’ll know yourself!!

The co-op offers for 2nd interviews and/or job offers tend to dribble in over weeks to months, not all at the same time, so good manners would be to withdraw interest from other companies once an offer is accepted. I know that some students drag it out (delaying answering offers, etc.) trying to get as many offers as possible even w/o the intention to consider later offers (if they’d already gotten one from their favorite), but my daughter does not / did not do things like that. She promptly accepted once she had the offer she wanted . . . and she then stopped interviewing / let the other companies know . . .

So far as housing commitments, it is true that many kids commit to apartment leases in fall for the FOLLOWING year. This is more common with girls than boys, but it happens a lot. The vast majority of students have a commitment to a lease by January or so. The housing issue wasn’t a factor for my daughter, but she did have a strong preference to stay in Tuscaloosa. She considered options outside of Tuscaloosa, but I don’t know that she would have accepted a co-op if it hadn’t been in Tuscaloosa. It certainly would have made it more expensive and logistically challenging. :slight_smile: She loved the people she interviewed with at Nucor and is excited about the work opportunity. The location is definitely a bonus. I’d suggest that if you are planning on trying for co-op, try to delay committing to housing until after the co-op interview process is complete (or as long as you can).

So far as using the scholarship money for summers, as far as I’ve heard, you could/would be able to get the entire semester’s worth of $$ towards a summer abroad. And, I have heard no reason why you can’t do that twice. (You’ll have to work one summer if you get a co-op, though).

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Just to build on the post from @mmom99. Our son entered freshman year in 2016 and signed up for co-op interviews in the spring. When he got his sign up date he had been lumped in with the juniors which was the day after when most of his friends went. It seems that his AP credits plus his courses in Fall and Spring meant that he would be a junior at the end of his freshman year. (Anything over 60 credits apparently). What this meant was that most of the Co-op interview spots for Freshman had already been taken by the time he got to sign up. Has anyone else come across this? It’s the first time his AP credits have seemingly worked against him.

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@Britchick1, I’m not sure how the credit hours work for co-op prioritization, although I do know they play a role in day assignment. I do know that GPA plays a big role in assigning days for interview slots. My dd’s grades were solid but not stellar her first year (although she got a 4.0 3rd semester!), so she was assigned the 2nd day of interview sign ups instead of the 1st day. Most of her friends had very high GPAs first year, and they all got slots on Day1. Those were all 2nd or 3rd semester students, and I’m sure many of them had 20+ AP credits at entering. AP credits are the norm, not the exception, for honors kids, in my experience.

My daughter had 41 AP/CLEP credits when she entered, so by the time she did the co-op interview process in her 3rd semester, she had 74 or so credit hours completed (so Junior status), with 89 including the in-progress courses.

I believe there were 4 total days this Fall for signups, so Day2 wasn’t terrible, and my dd was able to get all the interviews she wanted in Comp Sci. This varies a lot from major to major, especially if your kid really wants one of the most competitive/popular companies.

One thing to consider, too, is how early he showed up for the signups . . . Some of my daughter’s friends showed up 4-5 hours before opening time, so around 3 in the morning. Some kids reportedly camp out all night! My dd showed up closer to 4 or 5 if I recall correctly, but still several hours before opening time for sign ups.

So, anyway, if your son’s grades weren’t stellar first semester, that might have been the cause of the next-day signups. (The kids I’m saying had stellar GPAs had probably 3.6-4.0 GPAs.) Encourage him to try again in the fall! And to get up very early or camp out the night before his sign ups . . .

Oh, also, note that there are some sort of wait-lists for signing up for interviews, too. I guess some companies have wait-lists for extra interview slots, and you can sign up for those even if you’ve used up your 4 allowed sign-ups. Not sure how that works, but it might be a way to get an extra interview or two.

Remember, all he needs is ONE good offer. That’s it! Just one!

FWIW, it seems to me that the comp. sci. co-op opportunities are actually quite good. There aren’t tons of companies that are recruiting at UA in CS, but there are a nice handful of them, including several good local ones, and there are NOT as many CS students who go for co-op as the other engineering departments. For one thing, CS is a tiny major compared to MechE, etc. There just are not as many CS students as there are most other ENGR majors! Or maybe it’s because the CS majors are confident in their ability to land a good job upon graduation with or without a co-op (it’s a hot field, and that’s probably a reasonable expectation) . . . or who knows what other reasons there are that the CS kids don’t go for co-op as much as the rest of the engineering majors, but, anyway, that’s my observations, so far. So, even though there aren’t a ton of companies on the co-op recruiting list for CS, it seems to be enough for the students who are interested in co-op to find opportunities.

15

@mmom99 , thanks for the response. From your post It doesn’t sound like my sons gpa was an issue so I guess it may jus be related to his credit hours. Having said that he has been lucky enough to receive an offer so I guess things worked out ok in the end!

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@mmom99
Again, thanks for your detailed response.

CS 100 will be “taken care of” by AP Computer Science A and MATH 125-126 will be taken care of by AP Calculus BC. So I’ll only have to worry about CS 101-200-201 along with ECE 380-383. I actually prepared a flowchart to see if it will work and I was able to “jam in” all of these in the first three semesters, without it getting overwhelming. There is at least one elective in every semester.

The grey courses can be shuffled. The empty boxes represent free electives.

I have not done my research on the individual courses, so I can’t say for sure, but Semester 2 is the only one that looks “heavy”, which is because of ENGR 103 which [many find difficult](http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-alabama/1568843-engr-103-mid-term-grade.html). But on the contrary, CS 200 is not so tough.

[url=https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5g9h1TvABdBOVgyOHduNW1aUE0/view?usp=sharing]

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Please tell me if it looks feasible. I really want to do this. All suggestions are welcome.

If the ECE courses are not available across the Spring and Fall semesters like I want it to, then I’ll have to move Statistics down to Semester 3 and start ECE right from the first semester. Can I do that?

I could even move MATH 301-302 up if required, but it fits better concordantly with CS 200-201. Again, I’m not sure if the courses will be available in alternate semesters like that. Where do I look for these? :frowning:

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Also, I think I mentioned it before but:
If possible, I will try to use the scholarship money for study abroad in summer, which could replace a couple of courses here, I guess.

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@mundanewarrior , the big concern I see is that I don’t know of anyone who has actually skipped 100 using for AP credits.

In the new 100/101/200/201 sequence, 100 teaches C. 101 teaches C++. 200 uses Java and is more of a big picture course as opposed to a lot of coding. And 201 uses C, very heavily. So far, 201 seems to be (by far) the most challenging course of the series. If you aren’t a solid programmer and able to use C competently, then I think you’d be in big trouble with 201.

I, myself, am not a programmer or CS person, so I can’t give you more detailed insights, but my primary concern would be that you’d crash in 101 and/or later courses – especially 201 – because you’d missed out on the C and other content of 100.

If you’re going to skip 100, you’d seriously want to spend some major time this summer self-teaching C. If you can do that, then you might be just fine skipping 100. Maybe you can even find an online or local course that teaches C, not for credit, but for content. If you were my kid, that’s what I’d insist on . . .

I really don’t understand why UA accepts AP Comp Sci to replace CS100. Since AP Comp Sci teaches Java, and CS100 teaches C . . . it just seems reckless to skip CS100 based on success in AP Comp Sci using Java . . . You might want to contact the department head and/or one or more of the CS professors and ask for their advice on this issue.

I’d say that the HU/L/FA/HI/SB electives are easier that CS courses to take over summers and/or study abroad, so I’d reserve some of those elective course hours until later when you know when/how you want to use them.

FWIW, my daughter found ENGR103 to be easy, but annoying because so much of the content was elementary (math, mostly, I think). All math courses have also been easy for her, but she’s very math-y. A student who isn’t as strong in math would have had more trouble in those courses, though. So, which courses are tough really vary from kid-to-kid to some degree.

Lost of kids (those who come in w/ AP Calc credits) take the discrete math earlier in the sequence. I can’t see that being a problem if that works well for you. May as well get it done as early as you can. It’s not hard, relatively speaking. My daughter took it along with 200/201, but that’s because she was taking other advanced math courses first year (Calc 3, DiffQ, etc.) due to her other interests. But, plenty of other kids took discrete during their first year, no problem.

I’ve read bad things about the GES255 stats class. (My notes tell me that it “sucks eggs”, lol.) I’ve read much better things about the math/stats substitute – MATH355. (STAT450 is no longer offered.) However, Math 355 requires the 3rd semester of calc as a prerequisite, so it won’t be an option for most CS majors. In my college days, stats courses were a breeze compared to most math courses, so I have no idea what’s up with GES255, but I’d just advise you to research it before assuming it will be a light course, as it might not be an easy grade. You might not want to take it first semester. Discrete is easier and/or better reviewed, I think, so you might want to swap those two, especially since discrete will be a prerequisite for other courses, whereas stats can be taken at any time.

So, anyway, I’d suggest:

Fall1: CS100, CS121, ENGR103, MATH301, + your English requirement + an easy A class
Spr1: CS101, MATH302, ECE 380
Fall2: CS200, ECE388
Spr2: CS201

Fill in the rest of your hours with your general ed stuff, etc. Keep an eye on honors college requirements if you want to graduate with honors.

Summer between year 2 & 3: Try to find a summer program where you can get one or more of the upper division CS electives taken care of, if possible. I don’t think UA offers any on campus, but you might be able to find a study abroad, possibly, but that’s not something I’m familiar with. Alternately, use this summer (or the earlier one) to knock out some of your general studies requirements.

Fall3: 4 CS upper div courses (*** or fewer if you can get any CS credits over the summer)
Spr3: 3 CS upper div courses

As far as I can tell, the only CS major courses that are offered in the summers at UA are 100 and 101.

So, that’s the way I’d see it as possible to complete the CS requirements in 6 semesters. Just be aware that you have zero wiggle room if you fail a course. Some sections of some of these required CS courses had well over 50% drop rates, due to failing grades . . .

I don’t know why you’re in a rush . . . but if I were your parent, I’d encourage you to keep your options open and not get too committed to a 3 year degree. And, I’d encourage you to use your last 2 semesters of free tuition towards a MS. :slight_smile:

My last piece of advice is a mom-thing. My daughter started out with a heavy course load first semester, largely because she had AP/CLEP’ed out of most of her general ed requirements (actually all of the easy/English/humanities ones). My equally bright kid#2 is starting college (also at UA) this fall . . . and I’m encouraging him to take a lighter load first semester. IMHO, it’s wiser to take just up to 3 challenging/serious courses, along with one or two easy A/fun classes, first semester. Especially when you have grade requirements for your scholarship and a tough major, it’s really smart to start off easier and get some good grades on your transcript. I highly encourage that – just for the first semester. Then you can decide how hard you want to push yourself for the rest of your career.

Good luck!!

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@mmom99

I think that’s because it’s only an intro course. The concepts are mostly the same. It is the syntax that’s different. I’ve used C for two years, C++ for a few months, Java for four years and Python for two years, as well as other languages for different durations. I do NOT find it difficult switching between languages. In any case, I was already planning to take a C and a C++ online course this summer to refresh my knowledge.

I’m willing to take the risk of failing 101 or 201. You never know what’s on the other side of uncertainty. Also, I have taken so many intro courses in different languages that I don’t want to do it again.

(And as you suggested, I’ll also email a professor for advice)

I’ve noted the rest of your suggestions, especially about Statistics.

Is that six classes in the first semester? Does the scholarship cover that? Did not know it was possible. Looks like I have a lot to ask the scholarship department. The study abroad information on scholarships is really vague.

The main concern here is the living costs. Skipping an entire year would save me ~$10k, making it a lot more feasible. Otherwise, I would have to study here in my home country where the education “sucks eggs”.

I’d say skipping CS100 makes more sense than taking 4 CS courses in Fall3. I guess we’ll have to find out.

I only have one question now: How do I find out if a particular course is available in both the Fall and Spring semesters? The course descriptions do not have this information. Do I have to contact the department head or something?

20

@mmom99 has very sound ‘mom’ advice for easing into college life your first semester: heed it! ~:>