<p>I don't think the coach made a false promise. From the OP:</p>
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It only goes to show that coach was either not being straight with us or he had less authority in decision making process then he told us he did.
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<p>Those are not the only two options. Levels of influence that an outsider has in the admissions process can change from year to year. A false promise would have been not doing what he said he would do. </p>
<p>The OP allowed themselves to believe the impossible. Until the school itself issues the acceptance letter, it's not a done a deal.</p>
<p>I too find myself in agreement with ID. It had to happen sometime!</p>
<p>Ha, ha. One ivy got rid of the program--it was reinstated that summer over big protests, but that was it for any recruits, my son being one. At the other, the coach who made the promises took another position at a different college. New coach had his own lists. End of that matter. </p>
<p>My understanding is that a likely letter is going to be honored unless something happens that changes the picture. But with kids, things can happen and do happen. </p>
<p>I don't think it is disgusting that sports has its own inside track like this. Professors and music directors can get their nose in admissions farther than they do, but they generally like to stay out of the picture. You had better believe someone whose program is on the line is visiting the admissions office. As for sports, the issue is that schools have invested in these programs, and they are excellent recruiting , PR, tools. The cheapest, quickest way for a small private school failing in draw to enhance their recruiting field for ALL students is to add a football team. The players come, bringing other males (the hardest to get are the males). And the males bring the females. Schools have done this for that reason. There is a reason for sports being important and the tradition is not one of them.</p>
<p>Dartmouth really tried to get rid of favoritism for sports, but got the wake up call when reminded that the Ivy designation it gets is from it sports. Want to guess how much that is worth in terms of prestige, draw, recruiting, pr? If they cannot compete on the ivy playing field, they can give up the designation to a another school. Yeah, it would not be a good idea at all. Sports get the inside track because they give a value added as much as admissions hates it. I don't know an admissions officer who likes the situation.</p>
<p>I agree who heartedly with scualum. It is a small small world and if he thinks there might be rejection in the future, he can certainly possibly be helpful with other coaches. Keep in mind that there are a lot of coaches complaining that the admission staffs reject their recruits, especially true at Brown and Dartmouth for a couple of years. But with such a large application pool this year (and last), the competition is beyond severe.</p>
<p>It does seem odd that OP's numbers were all in there and she was still deferred. However, it was just explained to me that at certain really high LAC's coaches have only a limited number of tips in ED and then can use a few more or favor a few more in RD. </p>
<p>Obviously, it helps a great deal if applicant puts in a really strong application regardless. I have heard of kids getting tips for RD and then NOT following through by playing in DIII.</p>
<p>For most sports, and most athletes, the apps are just trading cards that the athletic director brings to the table for negotiation with admissions. If the sport is not that big of a sport and there is someone with like times or profile but better admission stats, the adcom can insist that choice 2 or 3 or maybe 2 and 3 get in but not choice #1. The coach could well have been honest in saying the OP's D was his first choice. And he may have easily gotten someone of that calibre through in the past. But hockey or basketball may have needed some heavy admissions concessions so that sport had to give up something somewhere.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, I was not advocating the elimination of admissions preferences for varsity athletes. That's a different issue.</p>
<p>I was advocating the elimination of a parallel admission track operated through the athletic department. I think that undermines the entire process and leads to situations like the original poster feeling lied to by the college. Let the athletic department submit their lists, but the admissions process -- start to finish -- should be an Admissions Office responsibility.</p>
<p>In all but one situation that I know, apps went directly to the admissions office. That is not the case for the revenue sports at the big schools, I understand, but I know kids who were recruits at Ohio State and other biggies but not in the football or other main sport, and they all applied directly through admissions. They also let the coaches know that they were applying, and they would prepare a list to pull those apps, set them aside for a designated adcom to meet with the athletic director and decide which ones would get admitted. Sometimes it is not an issue, like when the student would have been an admit even without the athletic tip. It then may become an issue of athletic scholarships. But at schools where the prize is getting in at all, this is a category that is discussed. This is not the only category pulled out of the general admissions pool. Usually URMs, internationals, Legacies and development and special admits are pulled as well and looked at in a pool unto itself. The reason music or other categories do not necessarily get that treatment (they often do if an audition is involved) is that they get enough of such kids in the general pool that they do not need that leg up to get the students that can make orchestra. Heck, Yale has two orchestras, I understand to accomodate all the kids who want to perform. Schools get more kids auditioning for plays than they have sports. They have to gatekeep many times. Not the case with sports. The reason athletes get special attention is that they have skills that are rare in the pool of applicants. At the level of college sports, there just are not the kids who have the training, ability, desire to play at college level.</p>
<p>AT my son's Ivy the applications are stamped [Sport] Recruit. They are submitted directly to Admissions, but a pre-read has been done during the summer and the coaches are told what the chances are for admission. In the case of my son's school, these chances could vary depending on to what college within the university the athlete was applying. The coaches got different numbers of slots at the different colleges. Also, at this Ivy there were very few likely letters for non-revenue sports, but the pre-read was practically a guarantee. It took something significant in the application to reverse the pre-read.</p>
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As late as last week he promised she was "At the top of my list" in a phone conversation.
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<p>You're clearly upset over the situation, but to be honest it sounds like you're being a bit unfair here regarding your accusation...</p>
<p>The coach very well may have said that your daughter was 'at the top' of HIS list... that does not mean she was at the top of the school's list. Although athletic recruitment can be one 'side door' for admission for those that might struggle to get admitted via traditional means, it's certainly no guarantee (even if the coach really wants the student). </p>
<p>The school's admissions team will obviously listen to what the coach has to say, but at the end of the day if the admissions team feels that other candidates offer a better well-rounded package then they're going to give preference to those other candidates for admission. </p>
<p>It sounds like perhaps you didn't fully understand the athletic recruitment process... coaches can recruit students for teams, encourage student athletes to apply, and put in a good word BUT coaches don't make admissions decisions... the student still needs to be accepted just like everyone else.</p>
<p>to rocketman; I dont want, or need, to belabor this issue any longer, but I did want to respond one more time. I have spent lots of time and energy trying to understand this athletic element of admissions and feel like I do understand it. My point was that my daughter loved 3 schools - all of them interested in her for her academics, ECs and athletics. This 1 particular coach told us "unless you apply ED I cant support your application and if you do go ED you will get 1 of my 2 picks." He then introduced us to the Athletic director who tols us that he had reviewed her transcripts and that they were thrilled witgh the prospect of having her on the team. Since all 3 schools were all of interest to her, we chose ED option, only to be deferred.</p>
<p>I can understand how disappointing that is but the fact remains that no one lied or even misrepresented themselves unless they said, "I guarentee your child will get in."</p>
<p>As a theater parent, I know what it's like to have all the best feedback and be completely blindsided by the end result. That's why we put an emphasis on not counting chickens until they hatch.</p>
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This 1 particular coach told us "unless you apply ED I cant support your application and if you do go ED you will get 1 of my 2 picks." He then introduced us to the Athletic director who tols us that he had reviewed her transcripts and that they were thrilled witgh the prospect of having her on the team. Since all 3 schools were all of interest to her, we chose ED option, only to be deferred.
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<p>Again, a coach handing out 'picks,' whilst is certainly doesn't hurt, is no guarantee of admission so nobody 'lied' here. Lots of students are encouraged to apply to various schools by various entities for various reasons, only to then be waitlisted or rejected when it comes time for the admissions team to make a final call. What you described sounds totally normal so I fail to see where the foul play was... </p>
<p>The ED issue was likely because the coach wanted to make it clear that he wanted to put his support behind those students who wanted to attend this school over any other school.</p>
<p>Finnsdad, you did what you could. This is the peril of athletic picks. It happens a lot in many different forms. There really is no understanding how the system works. It is not a system. You don't know what the school has in their hands, you don't know if they dropped your kid, bold face lied, or if it was a fluke of the negotiations with the admissions office. That is the way it works. My son applied to about a dozen schools and was a top contender at all of them in his sport, but did not get the first pick at a number of such schools. Some bad luck intervened in some situations, and good luck in others. A coach who outright told him that he was not going to be one of his picks, changed his mind and made him a pick. He got in some schools despite not getting an athletic nod. Until you get that acceptance letter, you are really in no man's land. It is not as easy a process as some think it is.</p>
<p>I think it's perfectly reasonable for Finnsdad to put this one in the "coach lied" category. IMO, the coach and the AD ran a "con game" on the kid, intentionally tag teaming her with language they knew would be misinterpreted to trick her into an ED application.</p>
<p>If a representative of this college would like to publicly offer some alternate explanation for the shady "car salesman/manager" routine the coach and the AD ran on the girl, be my guest.</p>
<p>This is EXACTLY why coaches should coach and admissions officers should admit.</p>
<p>Where I think the AD and the coach fell short was that they did not let the girl know that things did not work out. They should have known. If they are not that well ensconced in the admissions process where this could have happened, they should have made it very clear. I can say that the coaches that my son saw were frank as to what their weight was in the decision making process. If anything, they understated it. There were, maybe two coaches who played a bit coy, but they did not make any promises either, and it was pretty obvious that S was not at the top of their list, though they did not out and out say so. </p>
<p>Coaches do coach and admissions officers do admit. I think in this case, the best thing I can say about coach, admissions officer and AD is that they should say something to the kid that did get strung along. This is not a good image for the college to portray at all. Something clearly went wrong here, and the communication lines were not open. But then Dartmouth did not tell us they were dropping the swim program and Brown's coach did not tell us he was leaving until those events happened.</p>
<p>Where I think the AD and the coach fell short was that they did not let the girl know that things did not work out. They should have known. If they are not that well ensconced in the admissions process where this could have happened, they should have made it very clear. I can say that the coaches that my son saw were frank as to what their weight was in the decision making process. If anything, they understated it. There were, maybe two coaches who played a bit coy, but they did not make any promises either, and it was pretty obvious that S was not at the top of their list, though they did not out and out say so. </p>
<p>Coaches do coach and admissions officers do admit. I think in this case, the best thing I can say about coach, admissions officer and AD is that they should say something to the kid that did get strung along. This is not a good image for the college to portray at all. Something clearly went wrong here, and the communication lines were not open. But then Dartmouth did not tell us they were dropping the swim program and Brown's coach did not tell us he was leaving until those events happened.</p>
<p>I'm back to where I was before: If finnsdad's description of his meetings with the coach and AD is correct, they were intentionally deceptive. And they got something for it -- if the applicant had been accepted ED, she would have been obligated to go there -- no more competition from Colleges #2 and #3. The AD's participation makes it worse. This wasn't just a coach freelancing, or maybe not being as clear as he meant to. This was a coordinated con game by two sophisticated adults.</p>
<p>If they can't deliver, they can't deliver. But it's their obligation to make clear to a teenage athlete what they can promise and what they can't, and not to manipulate her into making a binding commitment without real reciprocity. Shame on them.</p>
<p>I agree with ID and JHS. I do not think that this is the typical athlete applicant's experience at NESCAC schools when applying ED, having been told the coach is using a tip for you. Something went wrong. From reading Finnsdad's posts, I would have relied on this coach was saying too.</p>
<p>Finnsdad - I am so sorry that this situation did not work out. I would be concerned that there might be weakness in the application. Your child may want to re-evaluate his/her total application. Are the essays strong and focused on a topic other than athletics? Should different recommendations be requested- of course recs are confidential but so critical. Maybe the guidance counselor can call the admission dept to check?</p>
<p>S was a successful tipped recruit at a highly competitive NESCAC school. In addition to midpoint SAT scores and grades, other components of his application demonstrated a well rounded student that would contribute to the community beyond the sports team. He demonstrated interest in many ways including multiple day visits and an overnight including attending classes. This helped him to explain why "this school" in his essay.</p>
<p>I also agree that this student was misled--probably cynically unless the parent is delusional (which I doubt :) )-- by adults who should have known better. Legalistic justifications do not erase the fact that they deliberately gave the student and her family the strong impression that she was in. I would strongly recommend that the school GC call the admissions person at the college and find out WHY the student was not accepted, so that the application to other schools can be refined.</p>
<p>I've known students who were recruited athletes at Ivies and elite LACs, and although it ain't over til it's over, as they say, the expectation was that the coach gave the virtual guarantee--probably based on a pre-read by the ad comm--the student made the commitment, and that was it.</p>