College Apartment

Parents Forum
1

<p>Sorry if this double posted...</p>

<p>My daughter will be sharing an apt with three other girls in Boston next year. I am already uncomfortable with how things apparently work nowadays. I had to cosign a lease saying I would be responsible for the entire rent if someone skips town, etc. Also, we all had to pay one month's rent ($2900) to the real estate agent for the twenty minutes she spent showing them apartments. From what i have read, neither of these is uncommon in Boston. </p>

<p>I am getting the reputation as the "difficult" parent because I seem to be a fair bit more cautious than the others. For example, on the day when the girls first were shown the apt and were jumping for the pens to sign the papers put before them: All the other parents were "so happy and supportive". No one actually seemed to care what was included in the rent, or how much would be due up front. I, on the other hand, wanted to know whether heat and electricity were included, whether there was a real estate agent fee, etc. And, yes, I railed about the agent's fee to my dd. </p>

<p>Now my daughter tells me that everyone (the other parents included) think it would be a good idea for them all to get a joint checking account to pay for the bills (rent, utilities, and food). I don't see why this is necessary, or even what real advantage it confers. I just see unnecessary entanglements and potential problems. I also don't think it is the best idea for them to completely share food expenses. They may have very different schedules, food tastes, and willingness to pay for extravagances. I can just imagine if one decides to throw a party and use the food money in a joint account. But now I'm getting the rep as the kid who doesn't play well with others because I am balking at this, when all the other parents are on board.</p>

<p>What do you all think of this? And, also, what do you think is a reasonable monthly alotment for food (for one person)?
Thanks in advance. It's been a while since I've been on these boards, but I know there is a lot of wisdom out there.</p>

2

<p>I think I would have been overly cautious as well. You are going on that mom's intuition--I see nothing wrong with that in this day and time! Don't let others try to make you become a follower! As far as the joint checking acct-I can only speak from my own personal experience some 25-30 years ago. I was a new grad fresh out of college sharing a very Nice 4 bedroom home with 3 other girls. As far as the utilities were concerned, 1 (ONE) PERSON handled the check writing and it did not involve a joint checking account. Each month she would give each of us an itemized bill indicating the amount due based on our 1/4 share of the utilities. There was never a problem! And no, we did not completely share food expenses. You are right, people have different schedules, at various times we were all dating someone which meant that many times we were not at home to eat! In fact, I think the only thing we shared expenses on was the rent and utilities. Stick to your principles and keep thinking ahead of the game! And, by the way, this will be a great experience for your daughter, it was for me!!</p>

3

<p>Give your daughter a set monthly allowance from which she is to pay for rent and whatever other expenses you are willing to pay for -- deposited to a checking account in HER name -- and let her figure out whether she wants to pool resources with the other. Make your payments to her early enough so that she has time to transfer it to any other account or write a check. Whatever complications and entanglements arise will be her problem, not yours -- and the kids will figure out how to work that out. Stand firm on the allowance -- if, for example,your check included $150 a month for food and the girls blow off the food budget on a party.... well, your daughter will have to figure things out and eat ramen for awhile. Although truthfully, I shared many apartments as a youngster, starting at age 17, and I never ran into a serious dispute with roommies about shared expenses. The one thing to avoid is being the master tenant on the lease, responsible for all the rent -- cosigning isn't much fun, either -- but I assume that in your case all the other parents have cosigned as well, so you really aren't likely to be the one left on the hook for everyone else.</p>

4

<p>I'm not privy to the tone of the conversations, but it seems to me that asking about whether or not the rent includes or excludes utilities is an absolutely fair and necessary question to ask.
The moms sound like bubbly sorority girls not moms. Of course they're excited that an apartment has been found, but these are fundamentals.
(What year are the girls, BTW?)</p>

<p>I wish the lease had been written differently so that you only have to guarantee your daughter's portion.</p>

<p>What is the sublease clause; if another girl leaves, they should have an understanding between them that she must sublease her room and that the other girls can approve the new roommate but that approval not be unreasonably withheld.
Call a lawyer and see if this can be added as a memorandum of understanding among the 3 girls, if not as an appendage to the lease at this point.</p>

<p>The real estate agent in some cities is just necessary to find apartments, so I'd drop that one. WIthout the agent, maybe they'd have found an apartment that wasn't actually available on the market, or is in a home about tot be sold where they'd have to clear out for prospective buyers...at least you know you got a clear, rentable apartment.</p>

<p>That's a TERRIBLE idea to have a joint checking account!! IMHO!
There is no problem each writing a check and sending three little checks in an envelope to pay off the same utility bill or rent.</p>

<p>Food is a tender subject. Maybe they can agree on a price for meal and snack foods to share that, but have separate money for parties?</p>

<p>If they could work together cooperatively to plan meals and shop collaboratively, they might actually save money. (One loaf of bread won't go moldy but 3 separate loaves will...) </p>

<p>What if they try it one way for a month or two, then evaluate whether or not it's working. Let THEM evaluate it. At least that's a separate understanding than the lease itself. </p>

<p>My S lives as a post-college grad with 2 roommates in NYC but they all have different schedules and jobs. They come and go like ships in the night. I know it's working for them but was so surprised because I thought housemates like to cook and socialize together, so I felt kind of sad for him. But he says that's standard among new-career people in NYC, post-college. I'm suggesting that if these girls feel friendly enough to try to cook together, maybe you should encourage that instead of insisting on autonomy.</p>

<p>But for the big-ticket items like the rent and utils, and espec the checking accoutn, autonomy sounds just right.</p>

<p>Nice screenname, btw.</p>

5

<p>If you want some confirmation of your sanity, watch a couple of episodes of "Judge Judy" and keep repeating, "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining" or "Beauty fades, dumb is forever."</p>

<p>Speaking as both a mother and a non-practicing lawyer, I say your d needs to get out of the whole mess. You and she will be left holding the bag when the others run out on her.</p>

<p>BTW, are you sure the other parents are on board, or is it simply your daughter telling you that they are? Parts of this sound like, "But Susie's mother is letting her go to the party. . ." Have you actually spoken to the other parents to see what they're thinking?</p>

6

<p>Wow - I've never heard of using a real estate agent to get an apartment - it must be an eastern thing. That's a pretty ridiculous amount to pay.</p>

<p>I'd never get a joint account for all of the roommates - there's too much of a chance of abuse with big repercussions. </p>

<p>I also wouldn't recommend sharing food expenses unless they're particularly aligned in this area. My D's a vegetarian and the roommate not. My D leans toward fresh foods which are inexpensive and the roommate toward frozen dinners and junk and she's much more wasteful. It wouldn't be fair at all if they shared the bills.</p>

<p>I don't think you're being difficult at all - just smart and prudent.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
I am getting the reputation as the "difficult" parent because I seem to be a fair bit more cautious than the others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hah! Sounds like me!! Don't be apologetic about your questions. And being cautious is always a good thing. Sure your D can learn from mistakes, but why not learn from your wisdom and questions. My kids always use me as a sounding board for their group stuff, renting a limo, beach-house etc, and I'm often the only parent involved. Contracts can be confusing, complicated and often have loopholes where you will get ******* just because you did not ask a question. </p>

<p>I have heard of kids having an account, where all deposit, but only one elected person makes payments. But I don't see why they cannot hand 4 individual checks to the landlord.</p>

<p>I also hope that all 4 parents co-signed the lease. Don't understand why you would not be responsible for just your D's part though. When summer rolls around, and 1 of the girls decides to go home, and is unable to find a sub-tenant, are you going to be stuck?</p>

8

<p>It's Boston. If the apartment is nice and in a neighborhood convenient to other schools, they can likely advertise and bring in a summer student. For reasons like this, it's important to hope they'll actually become friends and care about each other. Most roommate problems can be worked out if there's a bit of goodwill and friendship among them, a sense of allegiance so they'll try for each other.</p>

<p>Again, they might ALL want to go home for the summer, in which case if they find another decent group and bring the group to the landlord, they might be able to sublease or work up a new lease right from there.</p>

<p>But all of these things have a better chance of happening if there's some niceness and friendship flowing among the girls, which hopefully will develop in the coming year.</p>

<p>I'm not naiive, and I know how bad roommate situations can get (I caught one of mine as he siphoned gasoline from my car bc he'd spent all his money on alcohol...). </p>

<p>But as careful as you are, remember also to chorus positively that you hope everybody can become friends...since that'll solve some problems, too, in addition to all the caution about the major things.</p>

9

<p>I just wrote out a lengthy reply, and it doesn't seem to have gone through. I'm having troubles here tonight.
Again...
All 4 sets of parents had to sign saying they would all cover the entire amount. I have heard of this from other people. That's what they do with these college kids-especially in cities like Boston.<br>
As stupid as it sounds, I have not seen the lease. We were all just sent the cosigner's form. It made me VERY nervous at the time, but we were given a deadline by which everything had to be in and i didn't want to screw it up for everyone (as my daughter accused me of doing). I am pretty sure it is a standard lease- the agency is well known by BU students. And yes, if someone leaves in the summer, the others will have to make sure another warm body is in there to cover the rent or they will be liable for it.
I think that i actually will do as calmom suggested, and give my d the amount of money I agreed to pay. She can decide if she wants to go into a checking account with the others. We fight about so much, that i think it is better for her to make her own decisions and learn from them. (As long as the consequences are not too dire).
Oh- what do you think about monthly food alotment?
More later. Kid #2 needs to go to bed.</p>

10

<p>I have worked in a property management company. It is common for renters who have no income or no credit or poor credit to have a co-signer. In all our rentals with students the parents must co-sign. We require all adults living in an apartment to be on the lease. If one of the tenants moves out the others are respondsible for the entire rent. Each individual is not just renting out a portion of the apartment. Technically even the person who moves is still respondsible. We do not allow sub-leasing though it is not always possible to know. In our case if someone wants to move out before the lease is up and they find a replacement the replacement must be put on the lease and approved.
When our own child was looking for a place my husband refused to co-sign for her. He did not want to end up respondsible for someone elses rent in case one of the roommates flaked. He also encouraged her to find a place that was month to month. Both times she was extremely lucky to find a place with no lease and no security deposit. I don't know the details of the place she is in now but I doubt the management company knows she lives in her apartment. She pays everything to the girl who was already living there.
Another thing we told our kids that if they are in school we will help with the rent but we would not pay any security deposit. They had to pay that out of their own money. we did not want our deposit based on how college kids keep an apartment.
You are right to ask questions. With our kids we drew up a list of questions.
1. Are utilities included? If not what is the average monthly estimate. If your renting at your max an extra 100 for utilities each month can be painful
2. Is a refrigerator included? Some companies do not provide or rent on a monthly basis
3. If a house is there a gardener or are you expected to maintain the yard. Are there tools available.
4.Do you allow subleasing? And what is the procedure for getting a new roommate
5. Who do you call for emergencies.
6. How many parking spaces are included.</p>

<p>What we have found is that they don't understand what they are getting into. They don't understand that a 1 yr lease means that if you don't like your roommates you can just leave. A lease is a committment. They also don't understand that in order to get a security deposit back the place must be left in a decent condition. One thing that my D found when looking to take over a room was that she was to pay the security to the person moving out. She said she would just get it back when she moved out from the next person. She didn't get that if any person damaged the apartment she would not be getting her money back.
My D felt we were making the biggest deal out of things when she looked for a place.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
Oh- what do you think about monthly food alotment?

[/quote]

How much are they planning to cook vs. purchase food?</p>

<p>My fiance and I spend about $500 a month on food for the two of us -- we cook five nights a week and go out/order in/eat on campus two nights.</p>

<p>And my sympathies for having to deal with the apartment market in Boston. We just signed the lease on our first real apartment, and the search was really harrowing.</p>

12

<p>Due to circumstances that are not relevant to this conversation, my D had to move out 3 months before the lease was up.....we had cosigned and we could not get any one in for the last three months so we ended up paying that rent to protect our credit. There were roommate issues from the beginning though I did not hear untiol December. From January on, both girls tried to find some one to replace one of them- they despised each other :( Don't find a roommate on one of those online roommate matching services.</p>

<p>It was a well known area for college kids to rent and they would only use a co-signer. Since then the only co sign we did was for a sorority house where you were excused if the student was not enrolled in the U, I figured if she stayed at the U, she could work out issues in the sorority house, but if there was a dire emergency there was an out.</p>

<p>Since you are already difficult, why not live up to your reputation, have the girls and parents come to an agreement NOW (while every one is happy) about how they would handle potential conflicts (cleanliness, deposit return damages, who ate whose food, how hot/cold the place is kept, utility use, BF visits, etc) If nothing bad happens, great, it actually is a great opportunity to get all of them on the same page. And yes, watch Judge Judy, tell all the girls to watch it and learn!!</p>

13

<p>It makes sense to ask those questions regards utilities, sublease options, appliances. Early termination is another area to cover. Some will let you out early with a fairly reasonable penalty, others won't. Housing in Boston is expensive. It's not NYC, but it's up there.</p>

<p>Joint checking account? You have got to be kidding. I wouldn't entertain my progeny sharing a joint account, let alone college "freinds". You would be inviting short term problems, and potential long term financial headaches. </p>

<p>I moved my son from a dorm to his own apartment, a studio in a good neighborhood for a reasonable monthly rent. Basically, I'm paying $1000 more a semester than a shared double in university housing. I made sure we as parents were involved before pen went to paper. We had to cosign. For what you paid the real estate agent divided by four, you might be able to find a studio or maybe a 1 bedroom that your daughter could occupy alone or with a trusted friend. Contingent upon utilities, run the numbers. It could work. And stay away from electric heat and watch for a surcharge clause for heating costs if the heat is included. With natural gas and heating oil going nowhere but up, it could easily make your payments balloon unreasonably.</p>

<p>It's easier to find good landlords than good roomates.</p>

14

<p>Joint checking account sounds nutty to me. Here's what we did in grad school. Everyone paid their share of rent to the landlord. For food. We ate dinner together. We kept a notebook with expenses and who had eaten which meals. (If you had a guest you were responsible for them.) At the end of the month we had a little math party where everyone figured out how much they spent vs. how much they ate and we equalized the whole business. We each had a shelf in the fridge and the pantry for personal food. Leftovers from dinners were fair game, unless a cook said they were going to use them for another meal. I like the idea of being able to share staples, but I'd be surprised if they don't find that some feel like they are being taken advantage of.</p>

15

<p>The rental situation in Boston is tough and the circumstances you describe are typical as far as co-signing, agent fee, deposit, etc. The idea of a joint account is nuts. As long as all 4 sets of parents are on the hook for the lease, you should be OK. There is no such thing as early termination of a lease in Boston - if someone decides to move, the rent must still be paid.
As for the food, I would suggest they pool a small amount each week for basics (milk, whatever) and then see how it goes. Your d's budget will depend on how much she eats in, eats out, orders in, etc. My sense is that kids don't do much real cooking.
If the rent does not include heat, this could be a big bill in Boston.
It is hard to get kids to sit down and spell things out beforehand. Tell your D what her monthly budget is for food and utilities, and stick to it. Let her work it out with her roomies, that's part of growing up. If she's old enough to live in a an apartment she's old enough to deal with food and bills.
My DS has an apt with two friends and we went through a similar thing (although in Toronto they don't have co-signing or agent fees). They had a sublet situation and I had to call my son every other day to remind him I wouldn't pay rent on his empty room for the summer. He did find a sublessee, but one of the boys may go home and pay for his room for the summer because he didn't hustle to find a sublessee. What a waste of $2000.
I lived through the Boston apartments in my younger days, my two best friends now 30 years later were my roomates in Brighton right after college.</p>

16

<p>I wouldn't want my future credit rating linked to someone else's just because my name was on a joint account! And creditors can take it all! Rational, bot difficult is how I would put it. Giddy, irresponsible, immature, is how I would describe the other parents, if this is really coming from them. It sounds more like this is coming from one of the girls. Abd if this is really coming from theparents, then the girls aren't far behind. I would be concerned about being left holding the bag with these people. They aren't responsible or serious, and now know you will pick up the pieces because you care, and they don't.</p>

17

<p>You might want to PM Thumper - her S rented an apartment in Boston (may be there still.) </p>

<p>My kid rents in NYC and we asked a zillion questions. We were uneasy about the amount of personal information we had to fork over. But we did limit S to "private" or "no fee" apartments, so we didn't have to pay the typical 3 months' rent to an agent! The boys get a small discount by having rent paid via automatic withdrawal. Roommate's mother was uncomfortable with this initially, and S would lose his discount if both didn't do it. We were adamant that she sign on, because that was a safety to our own S, that the other half of the rent would be paid on time, and our S wouldn't be penalized due to the other's negligence.</p>

<p>One thing we did was set it up via S's account, rather than ours. Then we set up our own auto withdrawal to pay into S's account a couple days prior. </p>

<p>S's roommate's mother seemed to be much more relaxed about most of it, but didn't criticize us - seemed willing to let us ask the hard questions. It has gone okay, but S is hoping to get back in the dorm next fall.</p>

<p>S is probably about 5 or 6 inches shorter than his roommate, and about 100-150 pounds lighter. Roommate graciously told S that he could help himself to any food he wanted, and S bluntly said thanks but he thought it would be a lot easier if they just kept food entirely separate. Roommate is very nice, and generous, and it probably wouldn't have ever been a problem. It just seemed easier not to go there.</p>

18

<p>Just wanted to chime in on the food issue: I can spend $200-300 a month on food, restaurants, etc. My roommates and I take turns buying bread, eggs, milk, and the misc. stuff like ketchup or butter. Then, we each buy our own food. If we're actually cooking a dinner together (pretty rare), we'll all contribute something, or catch up on the next dinner. I think it's a really bad idea to have any sort of checking account together.</p>

<p>One guy I live with has the extra money to be able to pay all our rent and utilities, and tell us what we owe once a month.</p>

19

<p>A lot of young couples in romantic relationships with a potential for permanency refuse to have a joint checking account. WHY would a group of roommates have one?</p>

20

<p>Good point, cnp. I don;t even have a joint checking account with my husband, never have.</p>