These are just general Qs about the discussions I am following…
APs: I had read that 6 APs are very common for the students these days. Is that over the course of HS? Or only till 11th grade? Just curious because the college application only allows to mention grades till 11th grade. For 12th, you just list the courses taken.
GPA: Does the overall HS GPA matter, or only till 11th grade? What if the student’s GPA drops in 12th? Can the admission be revoked in such a case?
Summers: Which summer activities count towards the college app? Before entering 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th? Or does the summer before 12th is not counted for the application? Do students take the summer before the college lightly? Or do they use it to take classes from community college, or do summer camp in the college they are admitted to, or anything else that’s productive?
APs: I had read that 6 APs are very common for the students these days. Is that over the course of HS? Or only till 11th grade? Just curious because the college application only allows to mention grades till 11th grade. For 12th, you just list the courses taken.
the number of AP courses varies wildly from school to school and student to student. Agree there is no magic or right number of AP courses. Just list the courses your student has taken and the courses they are taking as HS senior
GPA: Does the overall HS GPA matter, or only till 11th grade? What if the student’s GPA drops in 12th? Can the admission be revoked in such a case?
if your student is applying early action or early decision…or even rolling admissions early in their senior year, the only GPA they will have is from 11th grade. Many schools will ask for the mid year grades at some point (and this could be used for admissions), and all will want the final end of 12th grade transcript from your school (to prove you completed the courses satisfactorily…and graduated).
And yes…if a student’s grades drop significantly and include D and F grades, admission can be revoked
Summers: Which summer activities count towards the college app? Before entering 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th? Or does the summer before 12th is not counted for the application? Do students take the summer before the college lightly? Or do they use it to take classes from community college, or do summer camp in the college they are admitted to, or anything else that’s productive?
activities should be from 9th grade on. You don’t know what your kid will actually be doing the summer after 12th grade so that won’t matter at all for admissions. Many kids actually do take the last summer home a bit lightly. Many have summer jobs, go to summer programs (not required, but some do it because they want to), or actually work part time and take the last summer before college to relax and visit with their HS friends, and relatives who they won’t see as often once they leave for college.
Are you asking about all college applications or any school specific applications?
AP Classes: No magic number for AP classes. Some HS’s do not offer AP classes so students are not expected to take classes that are not offered at their HS. The goal is to show your student has challenged themselves through HS and the # of AP’s taken will dependent upon on how many are offered and the AP policy for the HS on when the AP classes are available to the student.
GPA: Different colleges have different GPA requirements and some will recalculate the applicants GPA on their own criteria. In general, grades from the core subjects (Math/English/Science/History/Social Science/Foreign Language) will be included in the GPA and unweighted GPA usually on a 4.0 scale for 9-11th grades.
Admissions can be rescinded if 12th grades drop especially if there are any D’s or F’s. Each college will spell out their provisional admission criteria for admitted students.
In general, Summer activities/EC’s taken the summer prior to 9th through the summer prior to 12th should be included on the application.
After HS graduation, students can take community college courses (always check with the college to make sure it is OK), do summer camp or any activities of interest and be productive or they may want to spend time with friends and family before heading off to college. There are no restrictions or expectations .
My kid is in the sophomore year. They complained a lot about the course rigor in freshman year (the English Honors & Spanish-2 teachers used to give a lot of homework). So we took it lightly, and did not go for any AP courses in 10th… only took Accelerated Math & Honors Chemistry that would still count as UC honors. Also took summer before 10th pretty lightly… but finished the volunteering hours required by HS.
The teachers are pretty cool this year. And the kid realized that their friends are crushing it with AP courses, and summer activities. So just checking here regd what’s the mileage we are left with, and how can we optimize it w/o over-burdening the kid.
And yes, it would be nice to take the summer before college off after all the hard work
My Qs were about college application in general, and not targeted at a specific school. We will cross the bridge when we get there. It’s too early for us given the kid not aiming for highly selective colleges.
@gumbymom can tell you the required courses for the UCs and CSUs. Your kiddo should be working with her school counselor to make sure she meets those requirements.
There are a LOT of public universities in CA and there is someplace for everyone (regardless of the number of AP courses taken).
Grades only to 11th grade or sometimes first term of 12th grade are visible to admission readers for applicants who are current high school seniors. Planned or in-progress courses work is also included with the application.
Admission offers are typically contingent on completing the reported planned and in-progress courses with high enough grades. Sometimes, “high enough” is clearly stated (e.g. “GPA >= X.Y with no D or F grades”), but sometimes there is only a vague statement that tends to get seniors stressed out about their GPA dropping from 3.9 to 3.7 in the last year or semester of high school.
High school students interested in science, engineering, or math majors should consider the following courses in high school:
Math: take math to the highest level available to the student on the path to precalculus, calculus, etc. Statistics should be considered an elective that may help determine interest in statistics or majors that use statistics, but should not displace other math courses.
Science: take all of biology, chemistry, and physics. Consider taking one at an advanced or AP level depending on interest.
Computer science: students with no computing experience (besides being a typical user of computers and mobile phones) may want to consider AP CS principles. AP CS A is mostly for those intending a major in computer science.
English, history, social studies, foreign language, art: do not neglect these subjects. Good writing skills are a must, although it is true that writing about science, engineering, and math differs in some ways from writing about literature or history. Getting to a higher level in foreign language in high school can reduce the number of foreign language courses needed in colleges that have such a graduation requirement. Math majors may find French, German, or Russian useful.
One of the challenges with UCs is that ELC (Eligible in a Local Context, meaning the top 9% in your HS) counts heavily, especially at the lower tier UCs (it is pretty much a given for UCB/UCLA admissions). So taking fewer APs than your classmates (and then having a lower weighted GPA) can be a problem when the applications are compared.
You can look at how many students apply to each UC and how many get in for every HS in CA. That should give you an idea of where your kid needs to be relative to peers. Note however that engineering and CS are harder admits than other majors:
My student was planning on taking AP Calc AB in 11th, and AP Stats in 12th. But your note challenges that thinking.
If the student intends to take AP Calc AB in 11th, then is it ok to take AP Calc BC in 12th, or is Multi-variable Calc is considered a good progression?
I think no matter the rigor you take, you’ll get into STEM programs at solid schools, if you meet minimums such as 3 years lab science and get through pre calc.
Can you be better prepared with Honors and AP? Yes.
Will there be possibilities even if your rigor isn’t tops ? Yes.
You can have no ECs and still be fine at many schools.
Some schools count 9th grades. Some don’t. Some look for increasing grades.
They’re no hard and fast rule. Every school is different.
But get good grades, stretch academically if you can, and the student will have possibilities.
Few applicants will have MVC in high school, but it is generally not great for rigor to go back from Calc to Stats in 12th grade. I think Calc AB followed by Calc BC is probably your best path.
Also if you can get to AP foreign language, it may be helpful in getting out of compulsory language courses at some UCs (and other universities like Arizona for example).
Ya, MVC will need to be done in the community college. So it just adds coordination headaches to the coursework! Maybe AB followed by BC is a better option.
Student is not fond of languages. So he is stopping after this year’s Spanish-3. Would UC or UAZ require them to do AP Spanish, even for the STEM degree?
Arizona requires a year of (EDIT: foreign) language unless you have an AP with a minimum of a 3 for STEM majors (4 for non-STEM majors).
UC requirements vary, but an AP score of 3 exempts you from at least one course and in some cases (eg UCLA) a whole year of a language. It will not look great to drop languages for both junior and senior year of HS.
AP English can be substituted with a high SAT score to get out of Writing 1. But for all of these look at what other students are doing. At our HS, 25-35% took AP foreign language (mostly Spanish) and 30-40% took AP English. It was unusual to be in the top 9% without them.
My S23 did Calc AB/BC and Phys C plus AP Latin and AP Stats. He didn’t do APs in history or English (he wanted to study Astrophysics) but didn’t have great success in his UC applications (got in off the waitlist at UCSC where he’s attending). Some of this is his limited ECs and lowish grades (3.7UW), but his course rigor was likely a factor too.
A student on the +2 math track is usually a strong student in math who can handle BC after precalculus.
Multivariable calculus at a community college can increase scheduling and commuting logistics, but can also give the student a taste of how college differs from high school, so the transition to college will have one less surprise.
