college atmosphere problem

College Search & Selection
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<p>hawkette-
I have had a few bad experiences at sporting events, college and professional, mostly related to alcohol, but my ideas about the commercialization and overemphasis on spectator sports are based on principle. </p>

<p>The change of seasons in the north is beautiful. Fall and Spring are beautiful and comfortable temperature-wise. Winter is beautiful and fun, too. I love winter. </p>

<p>Among your social life criteria are "strength of party scene" and "alcohol and drug scene". Can you elaborate? How do these relate to the quality of the social life?</p>

<p>On a different matter, I detect an anti-Ivy agenda, anti-north agenda, anti-bookish agenda from you. Am I right?</p>

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<p>What about the principle of freedom of choice? For many of us there is nothing more enjoyable than putting on the school colors and going to a live game 7 weekends a year. I can smell the bratwurst smoke right now.<br>
You can go hiking or paddle your stupid kayak around some lake--we spend good money to have parks for people who like that stuff too--even if I don't care for it.</p>

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<p>

Well, these can be positive or negative attributes, depending on the student, but they can definitely impact the social scene if they are too prominent or not prominent enough.</p>

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<p>Collegehelp,
I elaborated as follows on the points above in the same thread that I created on Social Life of the USNWR Top 20:</p>

<p>“If you are asking about my personal preferences, I listed in the OP the ten factors that I consider important.
(1) The students are the personality of a school and I think it is essential that students be in an environment with others that they respect, they can learn from, and that actually enjoy being with.
(2) I am a music fan and this is often of interest to students so I included that.
(3) On the issue of major sports programs, which you asked about, I think that these activities can have a very strong positive impact on a school environment and the overall student experience. If you have ever attended any of the following-PAC 10 football game at Stanford or Big 10 game at Northwestern, ACC basketball game at Duke, SEC baseball game at Vanderbilt or any game at Rice-then you understand how different that is from attending almost any Ivy League football or basketball game (U Penn basketball might be an exception but still nowhere near the level of intensity you'd find at Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Northwestern).
(4,5,10) The Greek life is bit more controversial as lots of folks love it and others loathe it. Same is somewhat true with the overall "party" scene, but generally I think that going to school in a universe of socially outgoing students is preferable. Having said that, I’m NOT a fan of huge alcohol abuse and the drug scene scares me.
(6) Size, diversity and cohesiveness are increasingly important in today's multicultural college environments and I think it is desirable that students should mix with other ethnic groups or students from backgrounds with which they are not familiar. And not only mix, but actually work with regularly and constructively.
(7) I'm a big fan of good weather and probably so are others and this does affect what types of social activities take place on a college campus (and when). Stanford's weather is truly magnificent while it's not too shabby either at Emory, Duke, Vanderbilt, or Rice.
(8) I also am a lover of the arts so I like being close to cities that have some cultural attractions, eg, symphony, art museum, visiting exhibitions or artists, etc.
(9) Finally, I think a school should have a ton of student activities that appeal to and involve a broad cross-section of students. There should be something for everyone so that students don't isolate themselves and spend all of their time in the library or in front of their computer. The best learning at college often comes outside of the classroom.”</p>

<p>Re the seasons and the Northeast, I am very familiar with places like upstate New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. I agree that the falls are wonderful-I LOVE the colors, but I do wish the peak seasons lasted a little longer. The winters are loooooong (Halloween to Easter at least) and they are cold and if you are not a fan of the cold and the snow, then it can be brutal, eg, having to plug your car in so the engine won’t freeze overnight. But I agree that if you like the cold, the snow and the winter sports, then the Northeast is the right place (unless you go to Colorado or Utah). </p>

<p>As for spring in the Northeast, I view it as much, much too short with frequent, very erratic weather patterns. Furthermore, it is not that uncommon to have snowfall in April or even May (I remember a large dump this spring in many parts of the Northeast) and brisk temperatures. The average April hi/low for Cornell/Ithaca is 55-33, for Dartmouth it’s 57-33, for Brown it’s 58-39, etc. By contrast, places like Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory reach these temps two months earlier and Rice even earlier than that. April hi/low for these schools are Duke (71-46), Vanderbilt (70-47), Emory (73-50), not to mention the good weather at Rice (79-61), USC (73-54) and Stanford (69-47). Now that’s spring weather!! If you like spring during the college year (which ends in early May in most places), then the Northeast is clearly inferior to the Sunbelt. </p>

<p>Re your anti- inquiries, I am not against the Ivies. I am for the other, mostly non-Northeastern, schools that IMO get short shrift in the MSM and in popular opinion in places like NYC, not to mention here on CC or in popular rankings like USNWR. I think that there are a lot of excellent schools around the country that are underrated and underknown. That may sometimes unintentionally evidence itself as anti-Ivy, but those are not my sentiments. I have great respect for the students of these schools (although I will quickly add that I think that the student bodies of many of the aforementioned schools are every bit as good). </p>

<p>Finally, I am not anti-bookish at all. However, I do believe that college is about more than books and I strongly prefer a college (and a person) which (who) has a great balance of academics, social life and other things (maybe sports, maybe arts, maybe music). I think that the combination of those things offered at schools like Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice, Notre Dame, USC makes for a superior undergraduate experience with some pretty impressive and memorable things that you just can’t find at an Ivy school.</p>

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<p>Places like Stanford, Duke, NU, Rice (and IMO Cornell) have lots of "bookish" types as well as rahrah sports types.</p>

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<p>thethoughtprocess,
I agree as there are all types at these schools. However, Cornell does NOT have a football/basketball/baseball environment remotely close to what you'll find at Stanford/Duke/Northwestern/Vanderbilt/Rice, not to mention Notre Dame and USC and the major publics.</p>

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<p>Yes, these types exist at all the schools. It's a matter of what you are looking for - is the existence of people with such rah-rah interest enough, or do you want to be caught up in all the craziness (I mean that in a good way) involved with school spirit at a division I school? </p>

<p>I went to an UMich admissions event once, and this really funny guy spent ten or fifteen minutes telling us why they hate hate hate hate those jokers at Ohio State. :-P You'll probably find people like that anywhere, only not numbering in the thousands and all for the same school.</p>

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<p>Hawkette, in response to your suggestion of Wake Forest...Winston-Salem isn't exactly a happenin' college town, just by my own observation.</p>

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<p>Westsidewolfe,
You may want to consider Case Western Reserve which has excellent engineering program but also is increasingly trying to diversify. Johns Hopkins may be another choice although their engineering focus is bioengineering. Also, would look at the engineering programs at Princeton and Swarthmore. I know engineering graduates of the latter who had good experiences.</p>

50

<p>University of Michigan.</p>

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<p>Lol did someone say COLUMBIA? Worst sports spirit of any school I know. To whomever posted that, have you ever been to UNC or even princeton for that matter?</p>

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<p>Only one #1</p>

<p><a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/sioncampus/09/10/top_ten0916/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/sioncampus/09/10/top_ten0916/index.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I do not respect any list of college towns which puts College Station anywhere near the top.</p>

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<p>The Aggies are highly reputed for school spirit. Not a QOL ranking.</p>

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<p>The Aggies may love A&M, but it's hard to find anyone in their right mind who loves College Station. Not that it's a particularly bad place to live. It's just rather boring.</p>

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<p>I think most Aggies loved their time at A&M even if the town wasn't the greatest. A major reason for why they love(d) it so is the school spirit, much of it fostered through the strong athletic programs and the strong social life that many students enjoy there. Academically, I can't place Texas A&M in the same group with Stanford/Duke/Northwestern/Vanderbilt/Rice, but the college experience (albeit on a much larger campus with 36k undergrads) would be more similar to those schools than what one would find at Cornell/Brown/Dartmouth/U Penn/Columbia.</p>

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<p>Oh, I won't disagree with that, hawkette. I just think it's ridiculous to say College Station is a great college town.</p>

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<p>Hook 'em Horns! Thanks 4 the great posts guys, it's great to see your ideas, great work again Hawkette. Yeah College Station is the worst place on earth. my dad, a UT alum, drove through CS once and vowed never to do it again, the aggies are a cult, they wear their class rings b4 their wedding rings they are crazy fools. great school spirit but most of them are neanderthals that have no desire to leave college station their whole lives</p>

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<p>you should check out northwestern, it's a lot like what you're looking for</p>