Despite living in CA, I am cynical that the churches/religions that do not yet permit women to hold certain positions will come around to gay marriage anytime soon.
“Evangelicals who hold to a view that the bible is infallible could navigate the changes in racial relations just fine, and should have found the changes to be morally the right direction. Not so with this issue”
It’s really hard for me to respect the whole concept that anyone should take these holy books – of any stripe – literally, as opposed to metaphorically or as works that incorporate general moral parables.
Bay, I think there’s a difference between what one “permits” in one’s own house of worship, and the belief that one’s beliefs should triumph in the public square. Catholics may not allow women to serve as priests, for example, but they aren’t advocating that a law should be passed preventing any women from holding religious office. A Jewish rabbi may choose not to officiate at the marriage of a Jew to a non-Jew, but they aren’t advocating that such marriages be made illegal (or that pork should be made illegal!).
As for Erskine? Let them have their little backwoods bubba policy on gays. The rest of society is moving on.
This is one reason I think change is accelerating so rapidly. Like Nrdsb4, many heterosexuals of our generation grew up with openly gay friends and family members and we wanted to support them. When we saw how difficult society frequently made their lives, we decided to do our best to parent in such a way that a gay child would be comfortable in our family environment. We thought: Some kids are gay. That is okay. Let’s keep them as sheltered from prejudice as much as possible as long as possible. Let’s parent with the idea there may be a gay kid in this family and, if not, we want to raise gay friendly kids anyway. In this sort of family environment, kids came out earlier than our friends and family members had. And it wasn’t as traumatic an experience. There was a safe place.
And then, because we are the helicopters, we protected those kids to the very best of our abilities as they went out in the world.
I am so very grateful to all the individuals living openly gay lives. Thank you.
PG,
In the same vein, Erskine is a religious college and is not “advocating” anything to the public in general. Why does that make Erskine a “backwoods bubba” and not the other religions that adhere to the same views ( or worse)?
I wasn’t disputing the fact that “times are a-changing”. My point was that the churches that are accommodating the culture aren’t faring well. They are hemorrhaging membership and closing doors. Conservative denominations are either stagnant or declining as well, but liberal churches are in free fall. To deny this is speak on a micro rather than a macro level.
It is only a matter of time before America looks like Europe in terms of religious life. One generation or two maybe. But we will get there.
As I work in my office downtown this morning, I am looking down towards the Ohio River and I can see the offices of Presbyterian USA headquarters. donnaleighg - if it helps I can let you know if the ever lights go out for good.
Who says I don’t think that way about those? I don’t really have a lot of respect for the concept that gays are “less than”. And I have no dog in the fight - no family members - but it just seems eyeroll worthy to me to care.
“It is only a matter of time before America looks like Europe in terms of religious life. One generation or two maybe. But we will get there.”
Is that a bad thing? I don’t see it that way.
Okay. When your name-calling is reserved only for people of a certain geography/religion, it comes across as a bias towards them that you don’t have about say, Catholics (and ND), and Muslims and Orthodox Jews, which adhere to the same (and sometimes worse) views. They only get an “eye-roll” from you, for some reason.
You’re probably right to some extent.
Not speaking about Erskine specifically, but it is the evangelical Protestants who are the ones most likely to insist their beliefs be writ into law because God says, not (American) Muslims or Orthodox Jews.
Wait a minute, didn’t Catholics want birth control excluded from the ACA, and didn’t Mormons lobby for CA’s initiative that banned gay marriage? You have tunnel vision.
Which btw, perfectly exemplifies my earlier statement that people feel free to publicly criticize white males and Christians in ways they wouldn’t dare towards others.
On a more cheerful note.
Irishmomof2 - if you are still here, you should know that the original design was much, much better. Perfect in fact. If you can’t remember from religion class, donnaleighg can help you understand what happened. I think even the Presbyterian USA church still believes to some extent in the Fall and impact of sin on creation.
I found it so funny and ironic that you chose that as your example, because your uterus is actually front in center in the story (Genesis 3:16).
Oh dear, this is quite problematic as I’m the daughter of a white male, I married a white male, and I gave birth to a white male.
I strongly disagree with BC being excluded from the ACA. I’m not in CA, so it didn’t affect me, but I would have strongly objected to banning gay marriage.
What’s your “backwoods bubba” equivalent for the Catholics and Mormons who want to write their beliefs into our laws?
Loukydad - I’m one of those who fell gravely ill during pregnancy and would have died along with my twins if not for modern medicine. Sorry, there is very little about the female human reproductive system that is “intelligently” designed. If there’s a being who came up with that plan, he / she / it is a poor designer. Our children’s heads are too big for our pelvises. There is tremendous reproductive wastage. Many women deliver prematurely or develop preeclampsia or seizures. Maternal mortality was shockingly high til the 20th century. Yes, I get that there’s enough to perpetuate the species, but “intelligently designed”? Ha!
Pizzagirl - somehow the point always seems to pass you by. I understand and would have expected you not to agree with the assertion, given that you are an atheist (or perhaps agnostic). But your reply indicates you didn’t even comprehend the argument.
Funny that The Fall apparently didn’t punish MEN’S reproductive systems in nearly the same way as Loukydad believes it did women…
I work at a PCUSA member church. With a woman pastor and a woman associate pastor, a gay music director who is being married by our pastor to his partner this spring. The average age of our members is probably 80, maybe even 85. We were shrinking rather alarmingly. But now? Every week there are new young people joining the service, and the few angry old men who’ve left are being more than replaced by young, willing, accepting people, some with kids. While it’s only one church in only one denomination, I think it’s the wave of the future-the old ways are going to fade away as the older, conservative church-goers die off.
D is in HS where the kids are completely on board with classmates who are gay, bi, even one who is transgender. The level of acceptance is really heart-warming. And they shut down anyone who tries to shame them in the name of religion.
How does a belief in intelligent design correlate with patriarchal religious beliefs and practices?