College Board offers summer SAT only for elite prep class kids

Parents Forum
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<p>Best post of the entire thread! :smiley: :smiley: :D</p>

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<p>Great! Now we have a obscure blogger giving “credence” to the disgruntled and hypocritical competitors and the purveyors of junk science! All we miss are more crooked lunatics a la Lloyd Thacker!</p>

<p>I will never understand how some seem to accept the claims of those kind of self-serving mercenaries without ascertaining their integrity.</p>

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<p>Hi, xiggi–I have a lot of respect for you, but I think you are off-base with post #102. </p>

<p>I am definitely not a CB competitor, I am pretty sure my science is not junk (although none of it relates to standardized testing), and I am hopeful that I am neither a crooked lunatic nor a self-serving mercenary.</p>

<p>Still, I think that the people at CB must have been out-to-lunch when they came up with the plan for the August offering of the SAT in conjunction with specialized test prep.</p>

<p>Among the things that I have learned from CC is that different high schools have quite different environments. I think you are a college student or recent graduate? Based on your reactions on this thread, I would guess that you did not attend a high-school that featured massive sleep deprivation among the top students, during the academic year. That is day-to-day reality in a fair number of the high schools with very high-achieving students. (One can fall into this trap, despite the best of intentions beforehand.)
The summer generally offers a respite from this. </p>

<p>Even though the SAT is manageable on top of sleep deprivation (can’t complain about QMP’s score, one take during high school, no prep course, and not even the xiggi method, did finish a few sub-sections of a few tests in the blue book, but left a lot of it untouched), it would have been a lot calmer experience for QMP to take it in the summer. Also, it would have interfered less with EC’s that were scheduled during the school year. Based on the comments on this thread, Bay seems to have a local school environment that’s similar to ours. I know others do, too.</p>

<p>It’s not the prep that’s at issue, it’s the timing. In many cases, summer testing would be <em>much</em> more convenient, and the students would feel that their performance was more representative of their capability.</p>

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<p>I continue to be unclear on why this exclusive offering of the test was necessary. How would offering it in this particular setting provide any useful information about adding summer test dates open to everyone? It seems so obvious to me that the exclusive and favorable offer was made to entice more parents to sign up for the program and drop $4500 into the pockets of
, and that is it.</p>

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<p>Name calling and labels aside, let’s judge the letter as it is written:</p>

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<p>Imagine that a different omnipotent organization did a morally equivalent stunt. Let’s say the IRS instituted a special provision for 50 multimillionaires to file their tax returns 2 months after everyone else, with the filing date officially backdated to April 15. But not just any multimillionaires, only those who hire the services of a specific elite tax preparation firm. Then suppose Douglas Shulman, Tax Commissioner, issues a statement that this is a pilot program to test the feasibility of a summer tax filing date. </p>

<p>The issue is not just the advantage to these few individuals, it the loss of credibility of an organization whose foundation is built on fairness and trust.</p>

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<p>I would be VERY surprised if the CB does NOT cancel the Aug 3 test.
There is NO justification to offer it ONLY to a tiny number of gifted students who probably dont even need it but can afford $5000 for test prep.
This reminds me of the Planned Parenthood debacle- This was a stupid, self inflicted PR disaster if ever there was one
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<p>Although you clearly make the distinction, let me repeat that I directed my negative comments towards people who have made a habit to seize every opportunities to get their name in the press, and not towards you. Let’s also be clear that, beyond the obvious hypocrisy of the San Francisco tutor and the ubiquitous Robert Schaeffer, the inclusion in a BLOG posted on the WaPo is indicative of the how this coterie of malcontents tends to operate. That is NOT how journalists should work. This is a one-sided, unresearched, and poorly presented story, which is almost always the case of stories where FairTest is quoted extensively. Again, to be clear my comment about purveyors of junk science is 100% percent directed at that outfit. </p>

<p>As far as this discussion goes, it is perfectly understandable (and expected) to see different opinions and positions presented by members. It is also expected to respect the different opinions, even when in strong disagreement. However, I have the greatest reservations when one attempts --for whatever reason-- to pass the opinion of people like Stone and Schaeffer as objective evidence, or present any of those people as experts in standardized testing, and especially not experts in what the College Board should do. </p>

<p>A yapping Chihuahua is hardly a doctor in veterinary sciences!</p>

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<p>A normal SAT administration in July or August would certainly be problematic here in New Jersey, where many of the schools are not air-conditioned.</p>

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<p>You don’t have to give it at every high school. Not every school gives the ACT in New Jersey. My son just took his SAT at a different high school than he attends.</p>

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<p>^I agree. As long as there are a reasonable amount of testing centers it’s fine. My high school doesn’t offer every date of the SAT. And testing centers can be community centers, CCs, etc. they don’t have to be exclusively high schools.</p>

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<p>It’s ok, xiggi, I understood where your negative commentary was directed.</p>

<p>My point, however, was that starting with post #42, you seemed not to appreciate the intensity of the opposition to this move by CB, coming from the parents whose sons and daughters have to take the SAT during the school year. I took the SAT during the school year ages ago, but there has been a shift in the time requirements for advanced high school courses–not, in my opinion, accompanied in general by a similar shift in the depth or breadth of learning. The New York Times a while ago carried a story about the students at Newton North (I think? not where we are) who were staying up until 2 or 3 am with school work. 2 am was about the limit in my household, but even that is insane, really, when the student has to be up again a little after 6 am for school, and it’s repeated over many weeks to months. One thinks one’s family will not fall prey to this, but at some schools the combination of the school requirements + one demanding EC already put the student over the top.</p>

<p>In post #42, you mention other “scandals.” The thing about the other scandals is that they are student-generated, or at least locality-generated, and not something done by CB itself (although the recycling of tests abroad could qualify as CB itself, if that’s happening).</p>

<p>More broadly, of course, this is a “first world problem.” But you may need to be a parent of a sleepy kid to realize just how irksome it is.</p>

<p>Re air conditioning: the local CC and the local colleges are air conditioned, and are available as locales during the summer. They are sometimes used during the school year.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to add a few points: If by “religious exemption” in post #42, reference was being made to Sunday testing for those who cannot test on Saturday for religious reasons, I think that’s something that CB is actually doing right. I do wonder whether some of the students who are receiving extra time are actually gaming the system, but I know that some are not.</p>

<p>Re: the statement that the US is no longer an agrarian society, so school should operate year-round. Couldn’t disagree more strongly. Up through 8th grade, at any rate, QMP made gains in the summer by leaps and bounds, relative to the gains during the school year. (As dearly as I loved some of the teachers in the early grades, this is true.) I suspect you will have a bright child, xiggi, some years down the road If your child winds up in a school system like our local one–a good one actually–you will see what I mean. Summers are precious to a lot of us.</p>

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<p>QM, let me quickly (and not comprehensively) address a few points. Since I have been posting here for so long, I forgot that I should not assume my positions are always clear to everyone.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The agrarian comment should not be viewed as an universal call for year-long education by the 
 students. In its simplest form, my comment is directed at the PROVIDERS of services, and it means that schools should be able to offer programs all year round and count on their entire staff, administration, and faculty to work a 48 to 50 week per year. That does not mean that students will be forced to attend, but that the option is present. The above was a rebuttal to the problem in having a summer administration. Fwiw, I strongly believe in having summers off, but I equally support having programs for the kids who 
 need them badly. And, for all the voices who decried the availability of the summer program at Amherst, it might time to look at all the summer activities that are available to people with a fatter wallet than the average! If the biggest scandal was this 50 person SAT class, I think we should collectively feel relieved. The reality is that the “race” to build up a resume for college applications has never been more prevalent. Again, for whoever can afford it! </p></li>
<li><p>As I wrote in my first posts, I do not support an “elitist” and “private” testing session. I “endorsed” the pilot program as it might open the door for an extended program. I also clearly indicated that I would have “flagged” the special testing session. </p></li>
<li><p>Regarding students staying up to ungodly hours, I am quite familiar with it, and I am strong advocate of more work needed to be done during school hours. I see the extreme escalation of homework as a gigantic abdication by the teachers of being educators. Again, there is pattern in my positions! Some of the most successful systems of education are hardly relying on homework, as it is often akin to busy work without much feedback. </p></li>
<li><p>I do not believe more in SAT boot camps than I do in organized group classes. A simpler, longer term preparation should yield better results, and should never require making it a crusade. But heck, what do I know! </p></li>
<li><p>The perverse recycling of the SAT on foreign soils DOES happen, and with great regularity. I invite you to check on the historical threads in the SAT forum, or simply pose the question. Although not as easy to spot as the recycling abroad, I know for a fact that students who received extra-time on a weekday test received the same exact test as the students did the previous weekend. One such story was shared by the student 
 right here on CC. There are NO excuses for this. This is 100 percent on TCB/ETS account.</p></li>
<li><p>Let me know which one I forgot to address.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>PS I was a member of the HS Class of 2004.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the clarifications, xiggi. While I recognize your name and the “xiggi method,” I don’t actually know your positions on a lot of issues.

  1. I agree, as long as year-round attendance is not mandatory.
  2. I agree on the flagging, but wouldn’t endorse this particular program in isolation, even as a pilot.
  3. Agree.
  4. Agree–and will add that for a number of students, the long term preparation is built into their normal reading (for fun) and the school math classes; this does vary by school, though, depending on the challenge level in math.
  5. Wow.
  6. I think that covers it, except for the “religious exemption” question.</p>
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<p>Sorry, QM, but I disagree. There are what ~1.5 million students who take the test every year. Of those, I would guess only a few even know about the August deal, and of those, only a few oppose.</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t support nor oppose. Fifty students out of 1.5 million is not even a rounding error.</p>

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<p>May I ask how you feel about the June test administration? </p>

<p>Many schools systems start in August and therefore get out in mid-May. Thus, those students have a full 2-3 weeks to study for nothing but SAT and Subject Tests. Is that “fair”? What about the AP schedule in May which also works to the advantage of the schools that start in August. (Schools in my backyard don’t start until after Labor Day – union rules.)</p>

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<p>Well, technically speaking, I don’t know about the August testing myself, since this site is my only source for it (so far)–I haven’t followed the links.</p>

<p>I don’t oppose August testing, I favor it. I just oppose August testing for a small number of students, under a stealth program arrangement, where it’s further cloaked by CB indicating that the scores come from “June.”</p>

<p>Let me name a few public schools where I suspect that the majority of the students would be very glad of an August testing date: Newton North, Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Thomas Jefferson, New Trier, Paly, Gunn. The shortness of this list is just a reflection of my ignorance–posters are free to add their local schools.</p>

<p>I think the majority of the parents of students in schools of this type would oppose the August testing being offered only as part of a package deal for a small group of students, at a price of $4500. </p>

<p>I think there are many parents of high-achieving students who do not feel that their children need any test prep at all–but that the students are snowed under with the demands of regular school work + EC’s. Neither is it a question of study time for the SAT, which many of these students do not need. They just need to be comfortably awake during the test.</p>

<p>Here’s a diagnostic: How many times did a student fall asleep in one of your classes when you were in high school (assuming you are of parent age)? How many times has someone fallen asleep in one of your son’s or daughter’s high school classes? I was startled to hear of this happening, from QMP. There were students in the local high school who qualified for the AIME (math competition) based on the AMC12, and then chose to sleep through the AIME. They were at school, they went to the room where the AIME test was being given, they put their heads down, and they just slept. At least one student in QMP’s class fell asleep during a January final exam.</p>

<p>If your local high schools aren’t like this, you probably think it’s insane. Really, I think it is insane–wish I had devoted more effort to changing this for all of the students, when QMP was in high school. </p>

<p>I mentioned earlier the schools in the south that end in May, while the students in our area still have finals and final projects after the June testing date. I agree, that’s somewhat of an advantage for the students in the south. But at least it is not a special offering by CB to advantage a very small group of high-paying customers.</p>

<p>I don’t know why the SAT isn’t offered regularly in the summer, preferably in both July and August.</p>

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<p>I have seen kids fall asleep during AP and IB exams I was proctoring.</p>

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<p>Not surprising, Kelowna! At least not any more! In my high-school era, I don’t think anyone in my classes actually fell asleep. I did hear about one student, one time, who fell asleep during a movie. That was it.</p>

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<p>[Critics</a> say early SAT session for gifted kids is unfair ? USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-06-04/summer-SAT-students/55385706/1?csp=24&kjnd=9urAW8v8EU4cO7c%2FpOOBMhjbaD2NjaX5mtAurHk8f%2FjR0cPqC9dSrVhwDCLeOBEk-b72b2483-b370-4878-a05a-eb0f6f76753a_bMkdOf3CudlCPXL4koXyyBov%2B0vysrmF7gNaOezDLyYeEng57%2FjUjlXrK8vq0USx]Critics”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-06-04/summer-SAT-students/55385706/1?csp=24&kjnd=9urAW8v8EU4cO7c%2FpOOBMhjbaD2NjaX5mtAurHk8f%2FjR0cPqC9dSrVhwDCLeOBEk-b72b2483-b370-4878-a05a-eb0f6f76753a_bMkdOf3CudlCPXL4koXyyBov%2B0vysrmF7gNaOezDLyYeEng57%2FjUjlXrK8vq0USx)</p>