College Chances + Frame of Reference

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hi,

I’m a Canadian 17-year-old and I think I am in a fairly unique situation. When I was half-way through grade 8, something changed in my life. I lacked motivation, I quit and lost all my friends. The following fall, I tried to attend my first day of high school, but I was quickly overwhelmed by anxiety and frivolousness. My only option from there was to enroll in online school. Without knowing my potential, I enrolled in a very simple, local, flexible pass or fail school. For the next 3 years, I was doing these classes and only managed to finish one grade. 30 minutes of schoolwork was a good day for me. I had no friends, no prospects and didn’t really know what to do.

Now is where the good part starts. Last summer I realized, with the help of my father, that something needs to change. I was always an insightful kid and always thought I’d end up on a beach in Maui, but I was on track for the local janitor job. My dad and I found an amazing American online school that specializes in higher education. Fast forward to now and I have a 4.0 GPA, I plan on taking full AP classes next year and I’ve been given opportunities I’ve never dreamed of. Now that you know my background, here’s my stats, courses, and colleges.

Stats:

U.W. GPA- 4.0
Test Scores- Not Taken (I know this throws a wrench into the works.)

G10 Courses-

World History
World Lit
Geometry
Comp Sci
Entrepreneurship
Commerce
Biology

G11 Courses-

AP Lang and Comp
AP Psych
Honors Alg. 2
AP Comp Sci A
Human Anatomy
French

G12 Courses-

AP Microeconomics
Ap Macroeconomics
AP Lit and Comp
AP Stats
Honors Psyichal Lab
French
Exploration In Media Arts
AP Comp Science Principles
Game Design

Now I understand that it’s unconventional for a grade 10 with no test scores to make this post, but I’m so eager for college and have no clue what range I am in.

Assuming I maintain a good GPA (such as 4.0-4.5) and maintain the pace for my tests, what colleges should I be looking at?

Here’s my list: (For an International CS major)

Dream:
MIT
Yale
Stanford
UC Berkely
Harvard

Somewhat in reach:
UWashington
Vanderbilt
UCLA
CalTech

Reachable:
CU Boulder
UCI
UCSC
UCD

Safety:
SCU
UOregon

Sorry if this is poorly written, I have a broken pointer finger and it’s really difficult to type without it!

P.S.

I was thinking about making an app for my school because they don’t have one and it’s a 100% online school. Would this drastically improve my options? Thanks.

2

Hi. Not sure if this allowed but I’ll bump this page. There are a lot of views but no replies… Am I doing something wrong? Thank you.

3

MODERATOR’S NOTE:

No, you’re not doing anything wrong. But I would suspect that having a username of “FakeName1332” doesn’t make users run out to help.

As you suspect, not having SAT scores limits the feedback, particularly when you have reach schools that have single digit acceptance rates.

Can your family afford these public universities on your list? Many publics give little to no FA.

For future reference, wait several days before bumping; give people some time to reply.

4

Not having test scores makes this difficult. You have picked some elite schools. I have to question in particular math-focused schools such as MIT and Caltech being on your list when it appears you aren’t planning to take pre-calc. It’s also difficult to do well on the math section of the SAT without pre-calc. I would recommend moving your “Somewhat in reach” schools to “dream” schools. You have a good GPA, but how good is your online high school? What is your class rank? Are you taking the hardest classes possible? Where do students at your school typically gain admission? What about extracurriculars? Do you do any volunteer work? And what are you planning to study in college? Without knowing the answers to some of these questions, it’s hard to provide you much feedback. You can also check admitted student stat threads at the schools in which you are interested to see how you stack up.

5

Stopping after Algebra 2 will severely limit your chances at your reach (which are all really super competitive and I would add to your dream list) and dream schools. Also for the UCs you need to look at their A-G requirements, which include at least 3 years of language.

What kind of ECs do you have and when do you plan to take the SAT/ACT? As a Canadian I would seriously look at U of Toronto and UBC – the cost will be very low for you and they have really good CS departments.

Keep working hard and think about expanding your list to include more match and safety schools!

6

I, for one, was waiting to see whether somebody else had a good answer :slight_smile:

A lot depends on the reputation of your online school with admissions departments at US universities. You say it is amazing and specializes in higher ed, which sounds great… but from the standpoint of people who are taking your word for that, there’s no way to tell how meaningful your GPA will be in the eyes of an admissions person… and we don’t have test scores as a validating measure of how strong a candidate you would be. So, from where we sit… have you distinguished yourself in a rigorous program, or are you one small step away from the homeschooler whose mom gave her straight A’s? Not throwing shade, at all - it’s just not enough information to gauge your prospects… and the fact that you’re an international applicant throws yet another source of uncertainty into the mix. Plus, you’re not remarking on your financial situation… and while that may feel like TMI on the first post, there is a universe of difference between an international applicant who needs financial aid and one who doesn’t, at all but a tiny handful of internationally-need-blind super-elite schools.

So basically, you have no clue what range you’re in, and we have no clue either. :slight_smile:

Would it be possible for you to take any direct-enrollment college classes this coming year? Showing strong performance in a “known” college-level setting could really strengthen your application, even if it’s just senior fall before the regular decision cycle. (And yes, as noted above, you really need to get at least through precalc before applying to competitive CS programs. Almost all candidates for competitive CS programs will have taken CalcBC in high school, and many if not most candidates for the elite programs will already have gotten a 5 on the CalcBC AP test as HS juniors, or even earlier. I don’t know if MIT/Caltech even consider applicants who haven’t taken Calc.)

Take a scored practice test for the SAT or ACT… post how you do and what your financial constraints are, and then folks will have a little more basis to offer advice. And you will need to do a real sitting of at least one of these tests, as soon as you can. (Are you ruling out Canadian U’s entirely, or applying to both and just hoping to end up in the US?)

Congrats on getting through a rough patch and “finding your groove” - it sounds like you’re on a really good path!

7

Sorry about that. I couldn’t find a name forever so I just did the first thing that came to mind.

8

BTW, our remarks about your math coursework are not to discourage you, just to help you target appropriate paths and programs. Starting out in the most elite program is NOT the only path to success in computer science. Case in point: Harvey Mudd, one of the elite CS schools in the US, just announced their new faculty hires. They added two CS professors, neither of whom went to an elite program as an undergrad - they attended University of Nevada Las Vegas and UC Riverside… and now they’re both going to be Mudd professors, teaching students who probably would have considered both UNLV and UCR beneath them. Computer science is a meritocracy - you can distinguish yourself (or not) at any reputable program. And you will be best positioned to distinguish yourself if you choose a program wisely - someplace where you will have challenges and opportunities available to you, but where you won’t be under-prepared relative to your peers.

9

My apologies, I can’t figure out these forums for the life of me. I’ll respond to all replies below:

To clarify from my original post, I do not need financial aid.

RE: Isoinfo-

Would you recommend a change in my math courses? Between you and I, I don’t think my admissions coordinator is too reliable. I’ve continuously tried to reach out to her but she’s given me very little in return. I’ve expressed my college list and she’s given me the ‘go ahead’ on these classes. As for your questions, I am unsure of my class rank as it is “private information”, the online school had the highest education I could find for online schools, I am taking the hardest courses possible, I am taking all the computer science courses I can, students admissions have ranged from Ivy Leagues to Stanford to University of Oregon, I’m planning on majoring in computer science, and I plan on making a mobile application for my school for an EC. I also plan on starting a business and have many leads in that area. I will also be joining a CS and a business club next year, which could lead to more ECs. Thank you for the information!

RE: aquapt-

I completely understand and appreciate your concerns. I’ve shared these thoughts with my admissions coordinator which she responded with “I cannot share this information.” This was a big worry for me because, for all I know, this is a “free pass” school. The one factor that keeps me going is their college admissions list, which includes all the Ivy Leagues and Stanford. I can’t make many assumptions, but I think that this improves the reputation a lot. It seems like I should be taking calculus haha. Should I dump AP stats and take calc? Or take it alongside Honors Algebra?

I will definitely look into those college-level courses.

I would really prefer to be in an American university, preferably on the west coast. I’ve lived in a small town and have no high school experience and my dream is to be in a large public university in a place I love.

Thank you very much for the help!

RE: astute-

Thank for the response! Do you suggest me taking calculus after my Algebra? How serious is the language requirement? I’ve only got two years left and language courses are extremely tedious in online schooling. I am, of course, willing to take another language course, but it would not be ideal. My ECs are limited: I plan on starting a business this summer (no parental help) and I also want to make a mobile app for my school (free of cost). Apart from that, I plan on joining 2 clubs this fall and I will be

I’m fairly disappointed with my admissions coordinator. Since my chances are kind of up in the air for now, could everyone please advice me on what I should be doing or taking to better my chances at these schools? Any advice is appreciated!

Thank you very much!

10

" I am taking the hardest courses possible"

The school doesn’t offer calculus? Or even pre-calculus?

11

Is there not precalculus or trigonometry at your school? That’s often what comes between algebra and calculus.

12

You probably have more ECs than you think. Start making a list and include anything you can think of …summer jobs, church activities etc. My daughter watches neighbors chickens (city of urban farmers) and 2 schools mentioned it in acceptance letters. You never know. Jobs while in school count for a lot.

13

You need Precalc (hopefully Honors) before you can take calc. You could double up and take precalc and stats simultaneously if you wanted to. You have a lot of classes listed for the coming year. Is Econ x2 a graduation requirement?

It seems to me that you need a “safety school” plan that you could be happy with, since things are so up in the air as far as your qualifications for applying to competitive programs. You have done some great work at building an academic record, but you are looking to make a big leap from a relatively free-form education to a highly-competitive college, in one fell swoop. I don’t think anybody here can tell you whether that’s realistic or not, from what we know so far. But here’s one suggestion that I can be almost certain is viable: look into Portland State University. It is exactly what you say you want: a large public university in a great west coast city. It has a vibrant mix of students who haven’t all taken traditional pathways. It has a very good CS program, but one where you could take Calc your freshman year and not be an outlier. (You still need to get Precalc done this year - it makes no sense to postpone that.) It isn’t competitive to get in, but you would have every opportunity to distinguish yourself in undergraduate and even graduate-level coursework. It seems to me to be the kind of school that could be the perfect bridge between your nontraditional background and either a successful career in tech or a prestigious graduate program if that is your goal. https://www.pdx.edu/computer-science/

Another option, if you can afford it (which it seems like you can), is to apply this year to top US prep schools for a postgrad year. This would get you the solid college advising that you are lacking now, a transition to a residential, classroom-based educational experience, and another year to get through more advanced coursework before applying to colleges.

14

I would definitely recommend a change in math courses if available. Most CS programs are very math intensive. You need to take pre-calc/trig after Algebra II if possible. You can take it at the same time as AP Stats but not at same time as Algebra II as Algebra II is a prerequisite for pre-calc/trig. I can understand how finding extracurriculars at an online school would be tough, but it sounds like you have some options you are considering. Try to focus on the ones that show your interest in computer science. Sorry I missed your reference to seeking a computer science degree in your first posting. I don’t understand how your own class rank can be private at your school – that seems a little odd. Some schools don’t rank, so maybe that is what your admissions counselor is saying? Can she give you a percentile if not a true rank? I would also advise that you spend some time on the Admissions websites of the colleges you are targeting. All will list their admissions requirements, including high school course requirements and testing requirements (your reach schools may require or recommend SAT subject tests). At most colleges, you can usually google “admitted student profile” to get an idea of GPAs and test scores of admitted students. Best of luck!

15

Thank you all for the responses!

Regarding my math situation-

I love math, it is by far my favorite subject. I was planning on taking Honors Alg 2 because it is a pre-req for AP Computer Science, which I really want to take. Do you guys recommend I take Honors Alg 2 and Precal this fall and then AP Calc at g12? I have very little knowledge of what courses are good and need (hence why I came here). I did not realize that Calc was so important! I have taken Trig in my grade 9, but I don’t think that matters as it was a pass or fail school and it took me like 2 years to complete.

Regarding ECs-

I’m sure that my ECs will grow throughout the next few years, but for now, I’m fairly lackluster in the area. The past 3 years I’ve spent playing some video games all day. I was useless, this is only 7 months since then and I am looking for any good advice regarding ECs and classes!

Regarding a US Prep School-

I don’t think this is the best option for me as I’m really enjoying my life doing online school. I’ve been able to travel across the United States and have gained so much knowledge as a result. My online courses give me the flexibility to get ahead in my courses or catch back up if needed. I understand that going to a US Prep School for grade 12 would be ideal, but I don’t think it is the right choice for me and my family.

Regarding Portland State-

I will definitely check this school out. Obviously, I am a little disappointed with this choice as I was hoping I had the ability to get into a school such as Vanderbilt.

If anyone has any advice regarding ECs, courses, or anything to better my admissions, I’d love to hear them! I’m very open-minded, but I have no experience with anything high school related. My admissions coordinator is no help and I’ve never been to a public school. I’m basing everything I know off of a few youtube videos and websites that clickbait for views.

Thank you!

16

Thanks for the response Isoinfo.

I will immediately look at pre-calc for next year. My situation is: I have 2 years left in school, I need to take calc but to take calc I need to take pre-calc and to take pre-calc I need to take algebra 2. This leaves me kind of screwed, does it not? Are there any other options you see?

I’ve checked out a lot of ‘average test scores/gpa’ statistics but it doesn’t seem to be that helpful as it’s more focused on the type of person I am and my course rigor, correct? I’ve sent another email regarding the percentile I am in for my school, hopefully they will give a response!

Thank you!

P.S.

Sorry for my poor writing, as I mentioned earlier, I am typing with a broken pointer finger so it is very difficult! Haha!

17

Oh, I missed that Grade 11 is the upcoming year, not Grade 12. Okay, that makes the ramp-up to college admissions much less dire.

I’m not saying you can’t get into competitive schools; there’s just no basis to forecast yet. And you will need backup/safety options. PSU is proof-of-concept that you can go to a college that fits your criteria, no matter what. (Well, assuming you graduate.)

You can’t take AlgII and Precalc concurrently as the latter depends on the former, but you could potentially get through both in a calendar year if you do something self-paced. If your HS platform doesn’t offer self-paced math, there are others that do. (Example: U of Wisconsin offers an online self-paced math sequence starting with “College Algebra” which is essentially HS precalc, and a calc sequence that continues from there. https://il.wisconsin.edu/catalog/course.aspx?course=U3600-110 ) Also consider subbing some online classes from US universities for some of your planned HS classes. For example, I’m not sure that taking both AP CS1 and Principles is helpful, as compared to choosing one and then moving on to a course offered by a college. Likewise, the game design class might carry more weight if it were college credit-bearing.

How about doing a summer pre-college program at a competitive US university next year? Then you could get some classroom experience, professor recommendations that can speak to your participation and performance in a brick-and-mortar classroom, and grades from a known institution under your belt, without sacrificing your lifestyle for more than 6-8 weeks.

18

Okay, that makes a lot more sense. Sorry about that! PSU Definitely shows me that I can fit my dreams into a safety school.

Self-paced means that I can, theoretically, finish it in 2 months, correct? If that is the case, then yes, this school is self-paced. I am unable to finish PreCalc and Calc without working extra-time, correct?

These online college courses are definitely interesting to me. To be honest with you, I didn’t even know that was a possibility. The summer pre-college program does seem like something that I would be interested in, but there is a concern that I might get burned out. Due to my late enrollment, I will be working through the summer and then with no breaks, continue with my AP courses in grade 11. I understand that I’m reaching for an MIT admission, but I am unsure if I can do non-stop college level courses throughout the next 2 years (alongside my business and potential ECs). With all that said, I will definitely consider it and your other suggestions!

One thing that I’ve seen many of the replies references is the real classroom experience. While I understand that might be a benefit, I think everyone is discrediting a major benefit to online schooling- the real-life-work experience. Throughout the past year, I have done my classes in environments that no other high school student has experienced. I’ve done my schooling during the summer at my cottage where all my friends and family were out swimming and surfing. I’ve done my schooling while traveling on the road for weeks. I’ve done my schooling while in rooms full of noisy distractions. I think that online school really builds character in ways that a brick and mortar school can not. I am not denying the fact that in classroom experience would be beneficial, but I thought I’d expand on some of the benefits of online school.

How does this sound? (Everything else staying the same).

Math:

Honors Alg 2 → U of Wisconsin College Algebra

CS:

AP Computer Science A → College CS Class (listed below)

College CS Classes-

Introduction to Computer Science and Programming – MIT OpenCourseWare
Introduction to C++ – MIT OpenCourseWare
Introduction to Computer Science: Programming Methodology – Stanford Engineering Everywhere
Data Structures – UC Berkeley Webcast OpenCourseWare
An Introduction to Artificial Intelligence – UMass Boston OpenCourseWare

19

For Computer Science, you’re much better off taking as much calculus as you can - AP Stats is a great course, but for CS Calc would be much more beneficial. Even if you can only get as far as Pre-Calc - go that route. But realize that many of the students in the CS program will have already taken Calc, and perhaps even AP Calc. You’ll have some catching up to do.

I do think a summer program at a university is a good idea.

I know you’ve said finances are not an issue. That’s often said, before people realize what the schools really cost. For example, U of Oregon is $52K/year for an out-of-state student. Vanderbilt is over $70K/year. And you’ll have transportation costs on top of that. A school is only a safety if you are a very likely admit and the costs are affordable.

You do have a unique situation, but for top schools you have to make the cut for them to review your application. Schools typically do some type of initial cut so they’re not reading every application that comes in - and the easiest way to do that is off numeric information such as GPA and standardized test scores. You have to pass that hurdle before they will read your application and learn about your unique situation. Last year Vanderbilt received 31,462 applications and admitted only 3,415 (1,606 actually enrolled). Maybe they read all 31K applications - but it’s likely they filtered before they started reading.

Some things I would recommend you do:

  • Start doing practice for the SAT/ACT. Find which test you do better on and take some sample tests to see how you do. Realize that Vanderbilt ACT scores are typically in the 32-35 range and SAT scores are mostly in the mid-700s.
  • Also look to see if the school requires any SAT subject tests. MIT **requires** a Math subject test as well as a Science subject test. You may be OK with the Math Level I subject test, but I would guess most MIT hopefuls take Math Level II, which requires some trig and pre-calc.
  • Google the "Common Data Sets" for several of the schools you are interested in. The CDS will tell you what criteria the schools value. The information isn't always as current as it could be, but it will give you an idea of what they're looking for in applicants.
  • The CDS will also tell you recommendations for courses you should have taken in high school. However, individual majors may recommend even more than the minimum set by the school.
  • For some of your target schools, look at the CS major and see if they specify what a typical successful student has taken for HS coursework. Also look at the courses required for graduation to get an idea of what you'll be required to take.
  • And finally, realize that while it's always great if you can go to a top university, for majors such as CS and engineering it's a much more egalitarian world. Your future success will depend on the courses you take and internships you secure. CS is all about always learning - you need a good foundation, but you also need the curiosity and aptitude to learn new things quickly. That will help you succeed in the working world.

Bear in mind there are many students who have top SAT scores, are at the top of their class at highly competitive high schools, have amazing ECs, and still don’t get into schools like Vanderbilt or MIT. They still manage to be successful in life.

20

I was thinking more of planning on a summer pre-college program for next year. I agree that it’s rather late to plan this for this summer. Here’s one example, which I’m picking only because it’s what my own daughter did. http://www.bu.edu/mysummer/ The high school students enroll in the same classes as the summer-session college students, and get college credit that will transfer in, wherever they attend. There are lots of courses offered. Many colleges offer similar programs; I’d just recommend in your case that you choose a program where you can take normal college classes, as opposed to non-credit-bearing enrichment programs developed for high school students.

Right, self-paced means that you can finish the class in less than the full academic year. (Or take longer, for that matter, but in your current math situation that wouldn’t be the goal.) If you can do AlgII and then Precalc through your own school, and be done in time to take Calculus in Grade 12, then a different platform may not be necessary.

As for the online CS stuff, just be mindful of the distinction between the OpenCourseWare stuff that is basically auditing for your own enrichment, vs. the programs that allow you to fully enroll in a class for credit and a grade. Some of both is fine but the latter will be particularly helpful when you’re presenting an academic record that might otherwise be hard for colleges to evaluate. It will be less of a gamble for them to admit you if you have proven you can succeed in credit-bearing classes offered by known-quantity institutions.

My comments about the “real classroom” do not indicate that I think you are missing out, just that colleges want proof you can succeed in a “real classroom” setting, since that is what you are seeking at their institution. They don’t want to admit a student who has been using the online format to accommodate some academic or emotional limitation that could interfere with their success in a more traditional college setting, and then have them crash and burn when they get to college. They want to see that online school has been a choice and not a necessity that would set you up for a problematic transition. Does that make sense?