College Chances

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

I’m currently a Sophomore in High School, so I have a little bit more time before I apply for colleges, but I’m wondering what are my chances so far (and based on predicted future stats):

SAT: 1560 (Predicted)
SAT II: Chinese - 800; Math II - 800; Chemistry - 800 (Predicted); Physics - 800 (Predicted)
APs: I’m guessing I’d get a 5 on all my APs (maybe 1 or 2 4s), so I’ll just list them: Chinese (Already taken with a 5), World History, Calculus BC, Computer Science A, US History, Statistics, Chemistry, English Literature, Capstone Seminar/Research (I don’t know if this one has a test), Psychology, Government, English Language, Spanish Language, Calculus AB, Physics C.
Weighted GPA: ~4.54
Unweighted GPA: 4.0
Class Rank: Valedictorian (1st out of 100 students in charter school)

EC: Founder and President of Math Olympiad Club, founder and leader/coach of school MATHCOUNTS team, member of Science Olympiad Club and FBLA, President of Chess club, and Vice President of Website Design Club; WEB/LINK Leader (10th-12th grade), ASB Vice President (Junior year), ASB President (Senior Year), Boy Scouts, Piano (I don’t do this at a school anymore due to financial issues, but rather I do it in my free time and tutor classmates and guide them through their pieces), Martial Arts (I do this in my free time too, due to financial issues), Cross Country (school team), Volleyball (School team)

EC Achievements: AIME Qualifier (10th, 11th, and 12th grade), USAMO Qualifier (11th and 12th grade), OMO Participant (10th, 11th, and 12th grade); Eagle Scout; Redesigned School Website; Hopefully led school MATHCOUNTS team to at least states competition

Summer Activities: Travel, Boy Scout Summer Camp, Math Olympiad Summer Program (MOSP), Visiting colleges, visiting relatives, community service; A lot of my time is spent helping with chores and taking care of my parents
Volunteer Hours: 145+

State: California
Ethnicity: Chinese American
Income: Middle/High
Intended Major: Computer Science and Mathematics

Dream colleges:
Stanford (top choice, and I have a personal story with the college)
MIT
Caltech
UCLA
Columbia
Harvard
UPenn
UChicago
Carnegie Mellon
Princeton

2

It looks like you will be competitive for the schools on your list. However, these schools are all VERY difficult to get into with very low admission rates.

As one example, Stanford sent an article to alumni a few years ago that said that 80% of their applicants are academically qualified to attend, and among that 80% they decide primarily based on diversity. Your stats look like you will be in the 80% that are qualified, but this is a very long way from being in the less than 5% that get accepted, and being Chinese will not help you with respect to the diversity part.

It looks like you are doing very well. When the time comes, apply to top schools such as the ones on your list. However, you also will definitely need to apply to matches and safeties.

Also, for a very high stats student picking reaches may be easy – you just apply to the top schools in the country in your intended major. Picking good safety schools can be significantly more difficult. You will need to spend time considering which schools would be true safeties and would still offer what you want in a university.

3

So 8 of the top 10 schools and carnegie melon? It makes no sense to chance when you only have half the grades you’ll have when you apply to colleges. Also, how did you get that 1560 estimate?? You can have a great day and get a 1600 or you can have an off day and not break 1400. Your grades extracurriculars and award are great and you should continue to do them. No one knows if you’ll get into these schools and applying to 9 reaches is crazy. Start doing research to narrow down your list and add some more “dreams schools” that are match and safety schools.

4

Wait, if you’re a sophomore, how do you know you’re going to make USAMO and MOP in grade 11 and 12?

5

If you had already submitted apps and had no chance to change a thing, the only polite thing anyone could say would be “your stats and accomplishments are impressive and you have a chance at any of those colleges - good luck!”

But since you have some time to make changes… think about what your overall app looks like in comparison to the thousands of other apps that the top colleges receive. Other than Caltech and UCLA, every college on your list isn’t making decisions based on a checklist of stats, they’re trying to build a diverse class of people who will contribute to the stated goals of that college (and hint, hint… many of those schools don’t mention top stats in their mission statements or goals, they mention things like contributing to a community, or creating citizen leaders through a broad education.)

The things that you’re doing are not bad, but they are the exact. same. things the vast majority of other high achieving Asian American kids do. It’s very tough to compete in a sea of applicants who appear on paper to be almost exactly the same.

Is there anything, anything at all besides math competitions, piano/violin, noncontact sports, volunteering at a retirement home or shadowing a doctor that you are interested in exploring? If so, do it and do it well no matter what it is and that will help to . If not - if those things are your true love, then keep doing them but know you’ll need to be the absolute top of the top to be competitive in that pool or risk being one of the top stats kids who is baffled when admissions results are not as expected. Or - you could stand out of the best of the sea of stereotypical kids and do just fine; no way to predict.

6

@DadTwoGirls Thank you for the advice! I’m aware of the diversity factor that plays into a lot of my mentioned schools, and that’s why I’m worried about whether or not I’ll get in. It’s really a pain to make it into these schools when everyone they compare you to (Asian-Americans for me) are extremely outstanding.

7

@a20171 I just want to plan ahead so I can make changes if necessary (though of course I can’t know my exact grades). I got my 1560 estimate since it’s between my worst days practice test score (1520) and my great days practice test score (1570), and since I’m taking the SAT for the first time in August, I still have 5 months, so I’d assume I’d raise my score by at least 10 or 20 points. Thank you for your advice though!

8

@babymalcolm I’ve been practicing for math olympiad competitions for a while now (since 8th grade), and I’m able to make USAMO through past exams (AMC 12 with around 120 and AIME with around 11-12) on good days right now, so theoretically, I should be able to make USAMO in my Junior and Senior years. As for MOP, I’m just guessing I’d be able to make that, though of course I’m not too sure, it’s really just my dream/goal for 11th and 12th grade. What I put up on my question is really what I hope to accomplish as my goals (that are within reach), and not necessarily what really will come true.

9

@milee30 Thank you for the advice! I understand that many Asian-American students applying to these top colleges have similar stats as me (SAT of 1500+, high GPA, Piano, maybe math competitions, etc). While many Asian Americans don’t enjoy many of these ECs (their parents force them to learn them, and I’m saying this based on the vast majority of my Asian-American friends), I actually enjoy all of the mentioned ECs, which is why I’ve continued to practice piano and martial arts even after my parents forced me to stop learning from a teacher, and I even perform in the school talent show every year.

I know that many Asian Americans are great at math as well, but I’m pretty sure I’m better than (or stand out from) most Asian-Americans at math. I know I didn’t list my courses in my question, but I’ve skipped 4 years in math and will be finished with 3 college-level math courses after Calculus BC by the time I go to college. From the people I know, just about none of them have skipped that many math courses, and those who have are either struggling in their courses, or are unmotivated in learning more (I’m guessing their parents forced them to learn math), and end up dropping to AP Statistics or retaking a past course.

That’s also partially why I hope to make USAMO and MOP in my Junior and Senior years (The other reason is because I actually enjoy competing in those contests and doing the problems on them). In case you’re not familiar with what those are, around 250 students globally (technically, only people with American citizenship) make USAMO every year, so if I were to make USAMO, that automatically makes me stand out as one of the top 250 students. MOP goes a step further: if you score high on the USAMO, you are invited to attend MOP, which usually has 75 students per year who are invited (the rest pay a high tuition to join). From what I’ve heard, just about everyone who’s made USAMO, regardless of race or ethnicity, have made it into top schools, such as Stanford and MIT.

Is there any other way I can improve my chances?

10

“From the people I know, just about none of them have skipped that many math courses”. This is why I’m giving you this tough love now while you can still make changes. You may not know anybody with your math skills, but there are actually thousands of people with those same skills. Not all of them are Asian and many of them also know what the math competitions are.

I’m familiar with USAMO because my son is also into math and has very similar interests as yours and will graduate this year with the level of courses you’re planning to achieve. I gave him the same advice I gave you… if this is your one true love but that’s all you do, you’ll need to be world class level to gain admissions because these interests and skills are so popular/common. You may be the only one you know that is at your math level, but none of this is as unique as you think. It’s a big country, plus the colleges you’re interested in are also targets for the top students from around the world.

If you do end up with some of the achievements you would like, then you might be top level enough to stand out, but it’s a big risk. Or… if you can simply come up with a few other things you’re interested in, take one step to the side and compete like that. Much, much easier route to use your ninja math skills in something slightly different that not every single other kid is doing than to try to be the Absolute Best of All the Thousands of Kids Doing the Exact Same Thing.

Here’s how I described it to my son - picture how the AO discussion might happen. You have a group of AOs sitting at a table discussing which of the final few applicants they’re going to accept. Do you think your chances will be better if you’re one of a thousand who have pretty much the exact same app to the point where they have trouble remembering which was which or if you’re the one who has that app but also has used their math to do ____________ and has done ____________ (something they don’t see often on apps)?

Do what you love. But if what you love is also done by many other people, be sure to stretch yourself to try using your skills in new and unique ways or by exploring completely different interests as well.

11

@milee30 Thank you so much for the advice! I’ll look into something more to do than just math competitions (probably something more into the research field, such as CrowdMath). Thanks for the insight, it really helped me get a better picture of what to expect! And just curious, what colleges were your son accepted into?

12

He’s going to UChicago, his top choice. It’s a good fit for him personally and given the different fields he wants to study. And I know math and math type competitions are still truly something he loves because even after he was accepted, he still competed. Who knows - maybe that alone would have been enough, but I think it’s the fact that he did other interesting things with the math.

Good luck.

13

@milee30 Thank you!

14

@milee30 I hope your son has a great time at UChicago! It’s an amazing school, and congratulations!