College Clubs and Student Organizations

Parents Forum
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As Business students at UIUC, my daughter and son were involved in competitive business organizations, which involved applications and rounds of interviews. Not all business clubs are competitive, however it’s the reason why we viewed the incoming class size at Illinois more favorably than Indiana…Gies has ~650 freshman; Kelley has ~1,660 freshman. We figured there would be better access to these outside-of-class educational opportunities.

Also, one might want to consider access to programs - like study abroad, when comparing schools. A very high percentage of business students at UIUC do a study abroad program. When my daughter did her study abroad 3 yrs ago, her Indiana friends said it was quite competitive there.

On the bright side of the competitive application/interview process is the valuable experience your son or daughter will gain. As a poster above said, kids need to develop a thick skin. These (business) students will be going through this process for leadership conferences, summer internships and post-graduation employment. Practice is a good thing. I also believe my kids would say getting to be on the ‘other side’…being the interviewer…once they get leadership positions teaches you a lot. They got to see and experience how ‘interviewees’ are evaluated, based on an organization’s needs.

Lastly, I also think it’s a sign of the times. It reminds me of the changes to the National Honors Society in our high school. Personally, I thought it was a bunch of “hoop-jumping”. Yet it gave my children the opportunity to decide whether they valued the designation enough to go through the time-consuming process. It is what it is. Life is a series of choices.

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@88jm19 So study abroad is competitive too??? I seriously had no idea.

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I have S at Richmond. He assumed going in he’d be in their auditioned singing choral ensemble (he’s had classical voice training since age 5, All State, even sang in 2 professional operas at Santa Fe Opera House), but had a cold/cough during auditions (which has lingered since beginning of school - they redid his whole room (removing carpet/redoing AC unit) bc it may have had mold) and he didn’t get into the ensemble! He also assumed he’d do mock trial, he’s done it for 5 yrs, won outstanding Attorney awards, team won districts, won state, he won outstanding Attorney award at Nationals this past yr and he didn’t make mock trial team! That one was due to his submission being in the wrong form (though they didn’t care about his background and tell him they couldn’t open the file). Then, he tried to get into some other clubs, but “recruitment” had ended for the year. Who knew? I’d say this is definitely something to consider when choosing a school.

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I don’t want to give the impression that Richmond is s bad school or hyper-competitive. My S loves it there. He wasn’t proactive in his approach to getting into either of these groups/clubs (just assumed they’d want him) and Richmond won’t hold your hand. A good, but hard, lesson to learn.

The best advice he heard when touring schools was to sign up for any club that sounded remotely interesting because you can always drop out if you don’t like it or have too much going on. He didn’t take this advice bc of his above assumptions.

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@citymama9 Study abroad is competitive to the extent that universities limit the number of students they accept. Something I feel Gies has done well is cultivate relationships with schools abroad. They were encouraging study abroad before it became so popular.

The study abroad office lets potential students know how many spots are available. For instance my daughter thought Barcelona would be a good choice because of her Spanish language background. Yet when she saw there were only 3 spots in Barcelona in 2015 she focused on a program with 30 spots in a different European city. (Note: Her father and I did not do a study abroad and we were concerned that if she got Barcelona, but the other two students were male, then she might have less of an opportunity to travel on weekends.) The school she chose was a great fit and the number of fellow Illini (over 20) was a huge plus.

The only thing I’d like to add is that I am referencing study abroad through the College of Business. I believe if you don’t go that route, a student can try different study abroad programs at the university level. The benefit of going through Gies for a business major is the assurance of credits transferring for graduation. Also, back in 2015 when we were visiting schools, UIUC’s study abroad was far superior to Kelley and Ross.

Here’s a link showing number of spots available at various European universities. There are separate pages for Australia and Asia. And wow…Barcelona has 67 spots for 2019!
https://studyabroad.business.illinois.edu/programs/semester/europe/

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At Northeastern only sports and performing arts clubs require auditions/try-outs. There are huge club fairs and everybody can join by just giving their email. My daughter belonged to varied clubs from the food club to the economics society to the honors book group. Freshman year she gave her email to some clubs at her first club fair and got emails for four years notifying her of their meetings.

Due to the size, some other stuff is competitive. The career fairs have multi-hour waits to just get into the building. Special summer study abroad programs require an application and can fill up quickly. The limited spots for the annual pumpkin carving and gingerbread house competitions also fill up quickly. I remember her waiting outside the dining hall for over an hour to get in on Lobster night (but hey waiting for lobster isn’t too bad when you are a college kid).

The other thing that is tough to land is a coveted RA position - just too many kids who want a limited number of spots.

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I second the comment above about “practice.” Transitioning from being a big fish in a small pond to being among thousands of former big fish in an even bigger pond is a hard lesson I’m glad my kid is learning. During freshman year, I think I told her, "it’s good practice " at least once every couple of weeks. Being denied has been a healthy experience for my kid. It’s made her value opportunity, made her hungrier. Being grateful. Being humble. Relying on your resiliency to carry over to the next opportunity. These are lessons best learned through experience. No better time to learn it than the present.

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^ I agree to a extent, but I think there is room for clubs/organizations/volunteer opportunities that anyone can join and all are welcome. Sure it’s good for a child to get a dose of reality (though I would not assume that every or even most college freshman were big fish in HS) but joining an activity is one of the best ways to feel at home and make friends in college. If all or even most of the doors are closed, that less a lesson in resiliency as a feeling of being unwelcome/unwanted.

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My daughter actually just wrote about this for her school newspaper. She said the competitive clubs demand an unreasonable commitment from new students just trying to find their place in the university. That commitment leads students to place less value on less competitive activities and organizations, even though those activities and organizations may be of more intrinsic importance to a given student.

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Tufts ran some of their own study abroad programs which was very convenient because they accept all the courses for credit. Unfortunately not one of them was located in an Arabic speaking country, so my son didn’t apply to any of them. They don’t have infinite number of spaces for their programs in any event. For programs not run by the university you also have to apply. Some programs have minimum GPAs - my kid was .01 below the cut-off for a number of them.

I am not a fan of study abroad programs where you are with a lot of students from your own school. I did a gap year before college living with a French family, spent part of a summer at a Goethe Institute where I was the only American, and lived in Munich for five years (studying again at a Goethe Institute where I never met another American). The way you get to know a country when you are more immersed in the culture is very different than when you are surrounded by kids who are just like you.

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Add me to the shocked at the competitive admission process for organizations and clubs. Tour guides (both university wide and individual schools within the university), club level sports, club level performing arts (theater, dance, vocal), student government, career specific clubs (PR firm, robotics team, trial teams, business clubs), and community service groups are all extremely competitive and require multiple rounds of interviews, recs., and connections. From application to acceptance, some have a sub 5% acceptance rate. Even the open enrollment organizations are extremely exclusive when it comes to committees and leadership roles. These are handed down through connections.

It is more competitive to get into many organizations then the college selection process for my DD and her friends (some who were admitted to a top 10, 25,and many top 50 schools). They require references, as many as 4 rounds of interviews, essays, up to date resumes and transcripts, and detailed applications. The difference from the college process is that is is exclusively students doing the selection. Students with very little experience in this type of roll (at the very best, they are seniors who ave been doing this for 6 semesters but more typically sophomores interviewing freshman). As a result, they pull in people just like themselves. Students from their hometown, their greek organization, or who look good are all given priority.

The good is that it has given great experience with interviews. It has forced them to keep up to date resumes and interview clothes. It has prepared them to go multiple rounds only to get rejected. These experiences are critical to their internship searches that are happening now and their future job searches. The bad is that I can absolutely see how those who are not as confident or outgoing would get lost in the process and not get connected to any group in the university community.

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I think students need to understand and differentiate between clubs that are just for fun and clubs that expect active participation and are focused to achieve things. The latter wants kids who will be very active and engaged. For example, S was in the Dow Jones Club. It is open to everyone but it is not for those who miss meetings, aren’t involved, etc. Essentially they run it like an investment firm with the leaders being portfolio managers and associates and the newbies being analysts. The PMs assign the analysts industry sectors and they have to research companies and make stock pitches to the Associates and PMs each week. Each team of analysts has to meet to sell each other on their pitch and then present to the bosses. Very good practice, but it’s actually a lot of work. Club also provides networking within the industry.

Of course there are many clubs that are just for fun with no real time commitments.

I’m sure each school has many of both.

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This thread shows the importance when researching schools, to think about the kinds of activities that are available. Obviously we don’t all think alike. We value different things and that’s great. Finding your community within a university will make the experience more enjoyable and hopefully more productive.

For instance I understand the concern if a school’s culture is very competitive. It can negatively impact a group of students. But at the same time, some will thrive in such an environment. Hopefully a school realizes the importance of having some balance so a wide range of personalities can be accommodated outside the classroom.

When my firstborn originally went through her business frat’s rush process, I was concerned about the time commitment, as she was adjusting to living away from home for the first time. However, after she went through the experience and the rigorous expectations over the semesters, I can confidently say it was the best thing for her personal growth.

In my opinion college is a great time of self-discovery. Students attend with different expectations. In our case, my kids sought out ways to build skills and figure out their personal likes and dislikes. The competitive nature of their activities gave them confidence and solid time-management skills. I think it’s important to remember that the student chooses their path.

As for the statement that competitive clubs demand an unreasonable commitment, I’m not sure I agree. Some probably do, but some also have high commitment levels because they strive for excellence. It’s an opportunity for a student to figure out their “style” and test their personal limits.

My kids will be doing consulting post-graduation. Not everyone in business is seeking consulting or IB jobs, but those that do, are well-served by experiencing competitive, rigorous workloads. The consulting club had real clients with deliverables. This required a commitment by the students on the team.

Also, mathmom’s view of study abroad is different than mine. I respect her opinion and understand why she values the kind of immersion she did. However, that was not the point of my kid’s study abroad. For us, seeing as much of Europe as possible in a relatively safe and friend-bounding way was what we sought. For 4 months they travelled almost every weekend. They travelled with different groups of friends…sometimes meeting up with a large group (Dublin for Unofficial was over 50) to traveling with just a friend or two. It was beneficial on so many levels. I’m not saying it’s better or worse. People want and enjoy different things.

  • hope I didn’t ramble too much...I’m typing while watching tv.
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Stanford also has very competitive clubs. They require applications with multiple essays, various interviews, and even math problems for certain clubs. Networking also seems to be very necessary. Like a prior poster mentioned it does teach them skills to get internships and jobs but unfortunately it is a brutal process.

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@88jm19 I think there can be a value in both types of study abroad. A kid who has never traveled outside the country will probably get a lot out of one like you described. There’s a huge advantage of going in and knowing you’ll get credit for every course. My son was pretty irritated with Tuft’s unwillingness to grant anything but general ed credit for most of the courses he took. It’s definitely something to be aware of.

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Not many people have mentioned colleges where clubs are non-competitive, so I will mention that joining clubs appear to be almost completely non-competitive at Caltech.

I believe there are auditions for the 3-4 acapella groups, but beyond that, the clubs seem eager to have members. (We have a friend who joined an acapella group with no HS singing experience.) Many clubs are open to grad students and all other members of the Caltech community.

The reasons I see for this include:

– Only ~950 total undergrads

– The workload (of course) and research take up a lot of time

– The House system also takes a lot of students’ time. Building Interhouse parties and Ditch Day for example.

– Besides running the Houses, students have a lot of student gov’t type structures, including ones to enforce the Honor Code and provide input to admin on a number of other issues. A quick count shows there are about 80 committee positions above the House level and maybe 20 or so for each of the 8 Houses. So, maybe 1/4 of the students are involved in self-government. Elections typically have a max of 2 candidates, though I’m sure some double-up on offices. Elections seem to be less about competition with each other than about who can best protect student rights from admin encroachment.

– The Honor Code, instead of saying basically “don’t cheat” as at other colleges, says “No member of the Caltech community shall take unfair advantage of any other member of the Caltech community.” So, the Honor Code itself is somewhat anti-competition depending on your interpretation of the word “unfair”.

– People don’t attend Caltech to be business majors. There is a “Business, Economics, and Management” major intended to be a 2nd major for quants. But, for example, the qualifications to be on the board of the Investment Club and manage their $800K portfolio are basically attending several meetings (and is open to all members of the community including JPL scientists).

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If the club or activity your student aspires to has an influential role – e.g. it’s something they may insert into their resume or reference in a future job interview, competition for that spot is a fair expectation (just wish I knew ahead so we can prepare emotionally for it – not avoid altogether since this is a reflection of real-life). I can see how leadership roles in some clubs or even participation in some volunteer activities could fairly be placed into the competitive category. My earlier example of hip hop dance may fall into that category as well, since being part of a winning dance crew (with highly-subscribed youtube channel to prove it) would definitely be something a kid could use in a resume. Being a member of the “Friends of Campus Squirrels Club” probably isn’t going to require competitive essays or interviews. That’s because no one is going to put feeding campus squirrels on their resume.

Would it sway your child’s college choice to know this culture exists in advance?

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I know one of the most popular clubs at W&M is The Cheese Club (not kidding - the founder actually led our campus tour) and it is most certainly open to everyone. I think most campuses have plenty of both non competitive and competitive clubs.

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The Cheese Club and Wm&Mary is legend! And the popularity of the quirkiest club actually drew my D18 to applying there! She did get in but chose to attend another university but the Cheese Club still remains “the one that got away!” Maybe she should start one?!?!

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At my D LAC, if a club wants funding from the college (to pay for speakers, events, coaches, equipment, transportation, etc) it has to be open to all students (and is not allowed to charge a fee).

But there are definitely audition-only a capella and musical groups so I’m not sure how that squares with that policy.

D joined several clubs, mostly pre-med charitable sorts of organizations. I assume there is competition to become an officer but there was not to simply join and participate in club events.