College comparison tool (Very cool)

<p>When students are admitted to two schools, they can only attend one. Which do they prefer? Compare colleges to find out.</p>

<p>Compare</a> Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.</p>

<p>This is a "revealed preference" tool. For each school's percentage, the denominator includes all members who were admitted to both of these schools. The numerator includes those students who chose a given school. In other words, students who were admitted to both schools reveal their preference for one over the other by attending that school.</p>

<p>Thought some of the results were very interesting.</p>

<p>I had fun with that link. Thanks nystock!</p>

<p>Very interesting. Thanks</p>

<p>Except for entertainment, Parchment’s validity is between zero and nil. Their “data” is flawed. For instance, their comparison for Stanford and Berkeley is 86 to 14. The real numbers are closer to 97 or 98 to 2 or 3.</p>

<p>Xiggi, I have no idea of how FACTUAL it is, but thought it was self-reporting.
As far as Stanford vs Berkley, why do you think it’s so unreasonable for 14% to choose Berkley? So many things go into deciding between schools… money, location, program, feel, etc. Harvard v U Miami is 72% - 28%. Is it the weather? The Football?
Why do you think Stanford V Berkley is more like 98%-2%??</p>

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<p>I just don’t buy the “revealed preference” idea for college selection. Apart from the flaws in parchment.com’s extremely limited, self-selected, and unverified “data,” the whole idea doesn’t make sense to me. I think if you run a few of these comparisons, you’ll quickly find that in almost every case, the more selective school “wins” the “revealed preference.” </p>

<p>A lot of people want to jump on that as confirmation of the rightness of revealed preference: of course everyone wants to get into the most selective schools, because they’re the most desirable, right? </p>

<p>Well, no, not necessarily. I think all it means is that applicants whose first choice is the more selective school A will often also apply to a somewhat less selective school B as a back-up; if they get into both, that group will almost always choose A. But those for whom the less selective school B is their first choice are much less likely to apply to the more selective school A as a back-up; they calculate that if they don’t get into their first choice, B, then they should have an even less selective school C as their back-up. It would be a senseless waste of time and effort for them to apply to A, because if they’re not going to get into their less selective first choice B, they have little or no chance of getting into the more selective alternative A.</p>

<p>Thus the pool of cross-admits to A and B will be heavily skewed toward applicants predisposed toward A, the more selective school. So basically all the “revealed preference” is telling us is which is the more selective school.</p>

<p>Just as an illustration, the University of Michigan and Michigan State aggressively compete with each other for the state’s top students. Their rivalry runs deep, and in some families is multi-generational. As between the two schools, Michigan is much more selective. And guess what: parchment.com says Michigan wins 80% of the cross-admits. Well, doh! That’s because a significant number of applicants for whom Michigan is their first choice also apply to Michigan State as a back-up. But applicants for whom Michigan State is their first choice are much less likely to apply to Michigan as a back-up; why bother? The “revealed preferences” of cross-admits tell us only about the preferences of cross-admits, who are a subset of cross-applicants. It tells us nothing at all about the actual preferences of the bulk of applicants to either school. I’d be willing to bet that, of students who end up at Michigan State, an overwhelming majority had Michigan State as their first choice, and most of them didn’t bother to apply to the University of Michigan. In fact, I can almost guarantee it. In 2012, Michigan had only 9,700 in-state applicants, to go with 32,000 or so OOS applicants. That same year, Michigan State had 30,000 applicants, of whom probably 80% or more were in-state. Relatively few of Michigan’s OOS applicants also apply to Michigan State. That means an overwhelming majority of each school’s applicant pool didn’t even apply to the other school. So who were the cross-applicants, from whom the cross-admits were drawn? Well, I submit they came primarily from Michigan’s 9,700 in-state applicants, who generally had Michigan as a first choice (otherwise they’d have simply applied to Michigan State) but in many cases also applied to Michigan State as a back-up. Very few of the 25,000+ Michigan residents who applied to Michigan State also applied to the University of Michigan as a back-up. So, given this skew in the cross-applicant pool, it should be no big surprise that when we tally up the cross-admits, 80% chose Michigan. That tells us nothing more than that, as between the two schools, Michigan is the more selective.</p>

<p>Try it with a few pairs of schools. You may find some outliers where the less selective school “wins,” but it’s rare.</p>

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<p>It is indeed self-reported, and that is the obvious flaw in a system that accepts everyone’s self-reporting, without rhyme or reason. Fwiw, some pushed similar “data” on College Confidential. The self-reported data did not match any of the released numbers by the school. One reason might be that students who end up attending a “lesser” school prefer to report that they rejected the school as opposed to “admit” they were never accepted. The “turned down” threads are always full of creative minds. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>The example I gave is not about what I “think” is reasonable or what I “think” the real numbers are. It is the reality. The data has been provided in the past by Stanford when they released the number of cross-admission and enrollment. The number of students who were cross-admitted by Stanford and Berkeley is just above 600. The number who decided to attend Berkeley is around 10. Take away the number who might have enrolled somewhere else and rejected both Stanford and Berkeley, and you get to the 2-3 percent number.</p>

<p>I think this is a much better (and far more objective) comparison tool:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■%5B/url%5D”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■</a></p>

<p>Heck, just google, “College comparison sites” and you’ll get a couple of dozen sites that allow you to compare.</p>

<p>Surprised by Stanford vs Berkeley. WHY?</p>

<p>Berkeley is much cheaper, similar quality. Why so many students choose Stanford over Berkeley ?</p>

<p>Price is measured on a NET cost. Financial aid is not comparable. And remember that applicants realize that their decision is based on where to spend four years at the undergraduate level. Put it simply, except for about two handfuls of admitted students, all the cross-admits select their best option and enroll at the Farm. The same logic probably applies between Cal and HYPM. In the end, successful applicants also realize that, after spending two years of overcrowded classes taught by GSI, they will out that plenty of rejected students will join them through the open gates of transfer admissions from schools like De Anza. Same for OOS, except a higher ticket price. </p>

<p>This is only surprising to the people who believe the BS printed and repeated about Berkeley’s non-graduate programs. The schools are as similar as their current football programs.</p>

<p>@bclintonk, I think the purpose of the tool is to compare similarly selective schools which are attracting significantly overlapping applicant pools. When there isn’t much overlap in the applicant pool, or when one school is being used as a safety for the other, the method obviously isn’t going to be very informative.</p>

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Stanford is less expensive for most in-state families earning less than $150k/yr. And the potential applicants who believe they cannot afford Stanford often don’t bother applying, so they don’t appear in the cross admit stats. You get a similar effect with selective applications due to differences in expected chance of admission, as was discussed earlier. </p>

<p>Beyond these effects, there are numerous reasons why students would choose one over the other. I won’t get into a Stanford vs Berkeley debate here, but if you are interested in specific reasons, there have been many threads on the subject. One example is at <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/327444-stanford-vs-berkeley.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/327444-stanford-vs-berkeley.html&lt;/a&gt; .</p>

<p>Thank you very much. Everyone. </p>

<p>Stanford $56,411
Berkeley $33,320</p>

<p>The difference is $23,000 per year, $92,000 in 4 years. Financial aid?</p>

<p>Sorry, I never believed in financial aid. Maybe I am wrong.</p>

<p>californiaaa,</p>

<p>S is arguably among the top 4 or so colleges that offer the most generous need based FA in the country. CA is a public university in a state that is in a financial crisis, their need based FA is nowhere near that of S for the same income level; and for OOS students it is nil.</p>

<p>Let me give you a personal example of Net cost that xiggi talked about earlier. Two years ago D2 was admitted to a very generous private with a COA of about 60k/yr. Their need based FA, with no loans, brought the net price to about 8k/yr. Our IS public has a COA of about 17k. We qualified for no need based FA other than loans and she got their highest merit award for 8.5k/y, bringing the net price to about 11k/yr. And believe me, beyond price, the difference in what these colleges offer the typical UG is huge.</p>

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Some quotes from the Stanford website at [The</a> Parent Contribution : Stanford University](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html]The”>http://www.stanford.edu/dept/finaid/undergrad/how/parent.html) are below:

If you run the NPCs for both websites, you’ll find that Stanford is usually less expensive for in-state families with incomes of less than $150k/yr, which is most families in CA.</p>

<p>The result for UC Davis vs. Harvard University is “43% choose Davis 57% choose Harvard”</p>

<p>sounds legit- Aggies rule!</p>

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<p>Well, congratulations your D’s net cost in Stanford is $8k/yr. Not everyone is blessed with a no-brainer choice.</p>

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I suspect they only had 7 samples who claimed to be accepted to both UCD and Harvard. 3/7=43% said they chose Davis and 4/7 = 57% said they chose Harvard. There are two problems with this approach. 7 samples is too small to be statistically significant, and people are more likely to lie about getting into Harvard than lie about getting into Davis. If you compare colleges with a more similar selectivity that have a good overlap in number of applicants (statistically significant sample), then results look far more reasonable.</p>

<p>For example, the old Stanford senate memo I expect Xiggi is referring to lists the following cross admit results for S vs HYPM for Class of 2014. </p>

<p>Stanford: Harvard – 38%:62% (in previous years, ranged from 25% to 43%)
Stanford: Yale – 50%:50% (in previous years, ranged from 30% to 57%)
Stanford: Princeton – 63%:37% (in previous years, ranged from 49% to 64%)
Stanford: MIT – 60%:40% (in previous years, ranged from 33% to 64%)</p>

<p>Parchment results are all similar, as listed below:
Stanford: Harvard – 35%:65% (3% difference from old memo)
Stanford: Yale – 46%:54% (4% difference from old memo)
Stanford: Princeton – 69%:31% (6% difference from old memo)
Stanford: MIT – 67%:33% (7% difference from old memo)</p>

<p>3-7% off from the class of 2014 sounds very reasonable, particularly with the large swings by as much as 20% in some previous years that were listed in the memo, and Stanford being expected to win more cross admits now than in the past, as suggested by the acceptance rate and yield changes.</p>