College Costs: How High Would You Go?

Parents Forum
21

<p>Jyber's post is a good one, I agree. I also disagree with the sentiments expressed by Ray.</p>

<p>It's not about the name of the school. If a kid expresses the wish to become a school teacher or a librarian or work for an NGO after college, should that kid be sent to a large, less expensive school than a sibling who wants to work on Wall Street? The prospective school teacher or librarian might do better in a smaller college while the future Wall Streeter could thrive in a large state university. </p>

<p>Washdad: Yes, in the real world, most families cannot afford the current COA of top schools already. So the question only applies to very few.</p>

22

<p>washdad: The mean b<em>st</em>rds rwho won't spend 50 K per year are a very large group indeed! You are certianly not the exception as far as I can tell.</p>

23

<p>This is a tough question to answer specifically, with exact numerical values, but easy (IMO) to answer in general: my parents would spend up to the amount of money that they could ACTUALLY afford (not dipping into retirement, not selling/slapping another mortage on our house) to send me and my brother to college. I would imagine that it is the same answer for many parents on this board. Personally, I know that I would NOT be happy at our state university--I would feel like it was an extension of HS, it would be too big for me, it is not in a place that I would like to move. I am lucky enough to come from a family that can currently afford (again, actually afford) the sticker price of private universities, so I don't have to worry about this. But if we could not afford it, I would do a variety of things (go for merit money/loans/finaid) to find a private university that we could afford--I still wouldn't want to attend the state university unless I absolutely had to. I would have been successful, too--my safety school offered me enough yearly merit money that it would cost slightly less than the yearly sticker price of our state school. This is a school on par academically with our state school, but a much much much better fit for me.</p>

24

<p>WashDad: if you think it's about "love of intellectual discourse" and A&F t-shirts, you need to get over yourself.</p>

<p>Try:</p>

<p>-- publication credit in paper presented at academic conference, based on work begun as first-semester student</p>

<p>-- summer job funded by National Science Foundation based on first item, extending previous research.</p>

<p>-- all classes, including discussion sections, taught by full professors who are accessible, available, and eager to work with undergrads and know them all by name. (As an added bonus, has the department chairs as advisors for both her majors.)</p>

<p>-- outstanding advising, and I do mean outstanding: majors, overall academic, internships, career...and even financial is available. I'm aware of what typical advising is like and the comparisons are sick.</p>

<p>-- 5-1/2 month (not 10 weeks, not one semester) internship in a highly prized D.C. office, with small group meetings facilitated by the college with folks ranging from the White House chief of staff to one of the Supreme Court justices. </p>

<p>-- a second internship, paid, by the college if the internship itself does not pay, the following summer, ditto in a different highly prized office</p>

<p>-- strong placement and financial support for participation in <em>the</em> leading international program abroad for one of her majors</p>

<p>-- attending a school that has one of <em>the</em> highest per capita awards of graduate fellowships such as Fulbrights...and there's a reason that they do so well.</p>

<p>-- an alumni network that bends over backwards to be helpful, ranging from "I can show you the best place in town to get a new suit at a good price" to "I know someone in that office...let me give them a call for you." I kinda thought this was hype until I saw it in action.</p>

<p>-- an environment that routinely produces phenomenal growth in leadership and personal qualities.</p>

<p>I don't need your sympathy about what we're willing to extend ourselves to pay, we accept the burden willingly. But I will not accept any suggestion that we have made the choices we have to either buy or demonstrate love. </p>

<p>Oh...and the only A&F t-shirt my D owns was purchased with an airline voucher when the airline lost our luggage and she needed a few pieces of clothing for an overnight visit and A&F was the closest store we could get to before closing time by the time we got to our hotel, so you can stick that slur someplace too. Her college isn't exactly the preppy stereotype.</p>

<p>We're certainly not paying full sticker price. But D will be graduating with loans. It's our choice. No one else has to do it. But some of the suggestions about motivations are way out of bounds.</p>

25

<p>I used to think that people will stop buying luxury cars once they hit the $40K ceiling. I guess I was wrong. People are still buying them at >70/80K a car. This may sound ludicrous but it just seems like there is a lot of money floating around. Even the most expensive colleges cost less than a BMW. Colleges obviously believe that people will be able to afford the price. I think the president of GWU was on NPR yesterday, answering questions on being the most expensive of them all.</p>

26

<p>Hey, I understand the value of finding a good fit. And I also understand that some kids have a more sensitive make-up and need a different environment than what's offered at the flagship U. But in our area, I see lots of kids who dismiss our state flagship ("ick-too close" "grade 13", " way too big") - and that's without even looking it at! They go to places like BU or Syracuse or GWU - at full freight. Some of their parents are well set for this - others are digging deep to make it happen. I can't see it. And, personally, I wouldn't cough up those extra dollars unless it really made sense (a unique program for example). We're lucky - we have a son who could do fine in many different types of environments - and wasn't the type to eliminate his his state option without even looking. He looked, and LOVED it (must say that the honors college helped). He's a happy freshman now. And we won't be working till we're 90. Yay!</p>

27

<p>We had a preagreement with our son that we would pay for room, board, health insurance, car insurance and cell phone. He had a $76,000 college fund at his disposal and he was responsible for tuition, academic fees, books and spending money.</p>

<p>If it looked like the only colleges that were appealing to him would have been out of reach financially we certainly would have provided additional financial assistance so that he could have graduated w/o student loan debt. There would have been no limit.</p>

28

<p>We would mortgage the house, take out money from 401k for our kids to go to the best schools possible, if necessary. My parents did it for us as immigrants. My father was making a middle class income (engineer) with no savings. He took out second, third mortgages, we took out student loans, everything possible to go to private schools. Today we have paid all of our loans back, and my brother has bought a house for my parents that they have always dreamt of (as the oldest son, it was his responsibility). Fortunately, all of my siblings will be able to send our kids to schools without financial aid. My parents would be very disappointed if we couldn't do as much for our kids as they have done for us, with a lot less themselves. </p>

<p>As mentioned by previous post, education will be our kids' inheritance. It is an investment for their future. Many people may not agree, but I would think twice about paying 50,000/yr for my kid to pursue a major or go to a school that would pay very little after graduation. One may argue that money doesn't buy happiness, but I would like my kids to have the best tools available to be able to earn a good living so they could be comfortable if they so choose. It is especially important to us because they are girls and financial independence is what we would like our girls to have. </p>

<p>To us, cost of education is an investment. At the moment, 50,000/yr is still a worth while investment considering future tangible and intagible pay out.</p>

29

<p>"How high are you willing to go?"</p>

<p>How many kids do you still have to put through college?</p>

<p>It's one thing if this is an only child or the last child to go to college; it's quite another if this is the first of three to go to college. How high would you be willing to go for the first child knowing that it may negatively impact the children yet to go to college? I am willing to make personal sacrifices for my children, but the amount of sacrifice in this case would be tempered by my concern for my other children.</p>

30

<p>We factored that in when we had two kids. We knew we couldn't afford to have more.</p>

31

<p>I know someone who told their kids that they would pay (they were not elligible for need based aid) for Ivy, if the kid could get in, but otherwise it was the state school (albeit a very good state school). This is a complicated personal choice, but this system worked for his family. My sense is that many flagship state universities, especially those with honors programs, offer a great relatively inexpensive education. But you need to know your own kid and they need to know themselves. A lot of very smart kids will get lost at major state universities and will benefit much more from an LAC expereince. This is not a question that can be answered in a vacuum. You need to know both the financial positon of the family and the personality characteristics of the student.</p>

32

<p>I did the community college thing myself. My child will not. You never get those freshman and soph years back. </p>

<p>I have no doubt that my D will thrive in a number of schools, and she will contribute some (I believe that invests her in the decision), but, beyond that, I'll sacrifice everything for her to go to the best school for her. Second mortgage, second job, whatever.</p>

33

<p>In my mind, rather than a dollar amount, I notice which things I'm willing to sacrifice right now, for example: no vacations; home cooking; buy our used car from ebay (works great, BTW, a 1990 Cadillac! so please remember me as the one who posted who drives a Cadillac....); plan to work an additional 10 years past our retirement age; move to a different house.</p>

<p>I also expect these sacrifices from our kids: on-campus employment, all-summer paid employment (no unpaid internships) and only 2 summer weeks off, finish in 4 years, come home for vacations unless they're invited to another student's home, B's and above, no substance abuse, check in with our religious upbringing--not every week, but sometimes, while on campus. </p>

<p>I expect this from the colleges: financial aid that meets EFC fully (no gaps), provide my kid an extraordinary education, attend to campus safety and security, make a phenomenal admissions effort to create a cohort of bright, diverse students from around the country and the globe.</p>

<p>It's a mutual contract of sacrifices among these 3 parties, and I think each has lived up to their piece of the bargain.</p>

34

<p>I'd go as high as the present value of the reasonable future earnings differential between school A and school B. One can never be sure about such things, but then again one can never be sure of not getting rich as a high school dropout--we are talking probabilities here.</p>

35

<p>let's see. I have 6 tuitions to pay and will paying for one at least for every year now thru 2026. Two for the next 3 years. I'm supposed to retire in 2022. Interesting thought that is.</p>

<p>I have one at State U. Loves it. He could have gone anywhere. Chose U-M. He's paying a lot of his own way,</p>

<p>Second one can go anywhere next yr but can't figure it out. Has worked her tail off and deserves as much support as I can give her.</p>

<p>Number 3 doesn't work hard enough in HS for me to go out of my way to find a way for major $$ private LAC. Best State U she can get in to will have to do. </p>

<p>Numbers 4-6 too early to tell, but I have a learning disabiltiy in there too. As well as a budding Einstein. Point is - every kid, situation is different. I expect the financial situation will be different in 5 yrs, 10 yrs and 15 yrs. You do what you have to do given the circumstances at the time.</p>

36

<p>It makes me so sad to see one person after another reduce the value of a quality education down to "earning potential" :(</p>

37

<p>MSUDad, I know what you mean: I put myself through college on my efforts 100 percent via wages, scholarships, loans, and grants, going from community college to a decent state public U. They say it builds character...I made sure my D's character was built in other ways, that way is overrated. I got a decent education. I took advantage of some of the better opportunities along the way. (But let's not talk about the damage I did to the national defense effort while working with a soldering iron as an engineering aide in a communications research lab...man, my experience there was <em>ugly</em>.) But our D has worked her butt off for years to have the option of a much better set of opportunities and damned if I'm going to throw any arbitrary or short-sighted roadblocks in her way at this late date...she pays her share (via loans, work-study) and grad school will be mostly on her nickel, one way or the other. </p>

<p>Marsden (any relation to Roy?), earnings potential is a valid part of the equation. It's just not the only part. I'm wary of the students who are careerist from before Day 1 on campus...everything is so planned that they leave nothing to chance, no room for exploration, little room for growth in unexpected directions. Sometimes the Seeker does not find the Path, the Path finds the Seeker. See also, not all who wander are lost.</p>

38

<p>


</p>

<p>Either I write really poorly, or you completely missed my point. To clarify:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Not being willing (or able) to spend $50k per year for college does not mean that I am a bad parent, do not love my children, have confused priorities, or do not value a college education. All of these have been suggested or implied by posters on CC.</p></li>
<li><p>The thread asked the question "how high would you go." Most of the time, it doesn't have to do with "would you" it is about "could you." If you can afford what is obviously a spectacularly expensive college, either through financial aid, personal wealth, working, and/or loans -- good on you and your offspring. You didn't make the implied argument that anyone who doesn't seek this is a loser. Some do. They bug me.</p></li>
<li><p>This thread has absolutely nothing to do with the great "expensive, elite college for 4.0 students with 2300 SAT scores who played a viola solo at the Kennedy Center" vs. "state colleges for looosers" argument that is a favorite among the high school students on CC. If I sounded like I was insulting elite schools, I apologize. I'm happy for your daughter, but I ultimately don't care what choices you make, as long as they work for you. I'd be just as happy if she was studying education at CSU Long Beach.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Somehow, you wandered in front of an argument that I wasn't making, and if it was a result of poor construction on my part, I apologize.</p>

<p>And, for the record, I was over myself a long time ago. I really, truly don't care what anyone else does for college, and I won't judge anyone's choices.</p>

<p>(I'm lying. Those who can easily afford a "dream school" and won't provide it to their children are scum. Short of that, I don't care.)</p>

39

<p>Fair enough. I definitely wasn't making any of the arguments you cited in your #1. I've been loaded for bear all day..."wandering in front of an argument you weren't making" sounds as if it's accurate. </p>

<p>No offense taken, none meant in return. Thanks for the post.</p>

40

<p>TheDad -- your daughter goes to a great college and has had terrific opportunities there. However... the point I was trying to make is that other colleges, including public colleges, are also full of opportunities. Different opportunities, but opportunities nonetheless. </p>

<p>If Barnard had not come through with financial aid for my daughter, I would have felt disappointed -- and I think we all would have had a good cry seeing my daughter have to turn down such great private schools. But in the end she would have gone to a UC campus and would have had a different set of experiences. I figure that any kid with the capacity to get admitted to a college like Barnard would be able to stand out at a public university. </p>

<p>Your list of the opportunities your daughter has had is impressive, but I could post a list of my son's experiences/accomplishments over the past 3 years and it would be a great argument in favor of becoming a college dropout in his intended career field. (For one thing, he never would have figured out what he wanted to do but for dropping out and going to work). </p>

<p>I'm not trying to question the choice of a private college. If a family can afford it, great! But I don't like it when I see someone rationalizing the decision because of the idea that in a generic sense, private colleges are so much better than public. I've seen both sides of the coin with my kids and other family members -- it is not so cut and dried. Keep in mind that one's finances can have a tremendous impact on opportunity -- a student at a public school might have opportunities to study abroad or take low paying or unpaid internships, whereas that might be impossible at a college where the parents have to stretch to the max to pay the costs. </p>

<p>The problem is that I don't want to lay a guilt trip on parents who simply can't afford the private college. There are plenty of opportunities for smart kids at public universities. They aren't the same opportunities, but that doesn't mean they aren't as good. Just different. One thing I really liked about my university was the seemingly endless options -- a big university simply has more going on and more to choose from than a small college. I'm sure that there are parents here of kids in public universities who have plenty to brag about in terms of the opportunities their kids have had. </p>

<p>Again, each family needs to make their own decision based on financing. But I think that any parent who feels that they have to pay for a private education that is beyond their means because it somehow is so much better or more advantageous than a public education, is simply mistaken and being misled by all the hype. It's very possible that the private education may be better in some respects, but it is probably not $25K a year better -- at least not for any full-paying family that has difficulty coming up with the money.</p>